GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[iamshadow21]

trigger warning, petting baby sheep and goats in content

Inside the uni halls-style prison where Lucy Letby could be sent

The 33-year-old, who will be held in segregation at first to stop her being attacked by fellow inmates, is likely to be jailed in HMP Low Newton in Durham alongside Joanna Dennehy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

With that article, they show an image of a genpop cell, which is relatively nicely kitted out and 'homey'. Letby will not be in genpop.

What she has to look forward to is mentioned much lower down.

Letby will be the subject of psychological inquiries and reports, and will become the 'patient' of various would-be therapists and healers, whether she wants it or not.

Inspection reports on the jail said: 'Cells were not well equipped with only a bed, toilet and sink.

'The regime was limited with only an hour a day in the open air and half an hour to complete daily tasks, such as showering.'

...

Letby will remain a suicide risk, and staff would be heavily - and very publicly - criticised if such a prominent prisoner were to take her own life.

A suicide watch cannot be continued indefinitely, however - certainly not for years or decades, as it places too great a strain on the staff.

It is a matter of judgment when a watch is lifted, and it is not a precise science.

 

[Dcflag]

Do hospitals really not provide information about psychological help for the parents of children who suddenly die?
The father of the triplets said no one knew what to say, no one offered them anything. How could they not have had resources to provide to them -- at least support groups and bereavement therapists and organisations? Really?

Not always. I left a&e with nothing. Our source of information came from the chaplain that attended in a&e, without her, we would’ve had nothing. And even then her attendance was optional to us.

Good job Cheshire Police!
Respect!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693601489195864434

17 ribbons for each baby, whether convicted of the charge or not. Nice touch.

 

[QB2022]

I wonder about her childhood. That's the only bit that catches my attention as appearing so normal. Often there's a part of me that has a pang of empathy for those who commit heinous crimes when you look into their childhoods. Even though they comit awful things, you can almost understand why they are so disturbed. Hers just seems so normal?

 

[gitana1]

I don't know, haven't been following the case since the outset but MbP is often comorbid with other personality disorders and I heard a crim psych refer to Beverley Allitt as ' untreatable psychopath' this week ( Alongside BA having MbP. )
Do you know whether that series 'Beverley Allitt Tapes' available on You tube? )

I read this earlier, and here are two who have actually researched medical killers:
Professor Yorker, who has studied more than 130 cases globally of health professionals who kill, says one motive, if not attention, "seemed to be... an act of covert violence or sadism" as the perpetrators found themselves in a position of power. .....She highlights the case of Richard Angelo, a nurse who was convicted of killing four patients and suspected of causing more deaths in New York in 1987. "When they arrested him... he admitted it. He said, 'I do it for the respect that I get from my nursing and doctor colleagues because I perform very well in a code' (cardiac arrest)..."I haven't read anything about Lucy Letby that indicates she wanted to be the centre of attention, that she enjoyed resuscitation of the infants. She seemed much more clandestine and deceitful. Kind of sadistic, maybe. ( Beatrice Yorker, a professor emerita of nursing and criminal justice and criminalistics at California State University in Los Angeles )

Dr Katherine Ramsland, an expert in serial killers who teaches forensic psychology at DeSales University in Pennsylvania, has seen both cases. "It's a mix," she says. "Some view healthcare agencies as places of trust where predators have advantages, others are worn down by the demands and decide to 'reduce' the workload or set someone up to make them look bad."

Some can also develop "a delusional belief that they're helping a patient", while others see "easy prey for things like theft or self-empowerment, or even thrill," she adds

Lucy Letby: Inside the mind of a serial killer - the psychology behind healthcare murderers

Former Countess of Chester hospital nurse Lucy Letby joins GP Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allitt on the list of UK healthcare professional serial killers. Here, Sky News speaks to psychologists about possible motivations for such horrific crimes.

news.sky.com

She seemed excited by these people’s grief. She wanted to cause grief. Perhaps in part because she was jealous at what they had. So she took it. But she seemed happy to cause them grief.

Something like this is probably so complex we can never fully explain it.

On another note, it is an injustice that she wasn’t forced to be there for sentencing and victim impact statements.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Problem is, are such people properly diagnosable?

In garden-variety conditions, where people might end up being violent, usually there are outbursts of violence. This, of course, is very treatable. The situation when there is serial hospital murder who is otherwise doing fine, even growing in the system, buying a house, having a relationship, not visibly failing in any area, is pretty rare.

With all variety of new medications, the area that is totally uncovered and unmedicated is alexithymia, the inability to identify and describe emotions. I am wondering if LL had it. Her “boredom” makes me wonder. This, on the one hand, and probably strong obsessive component on the other. There is something promising for OCD, Tourette’s and the likes now in phase 2-3 of clinical trials, at least.

Alexithymia is something you find in conditions of Neurodiversity. MOO

 

[gitana1]

Under UK automatic reporting restrictions, and where the verdict was only recently read and the defendant is being sentenced today, I think better information (not plodding/repeats) should be coming out soon.

Sky News and Daily Mail both produced podcasts of the daily trial. Unfortunately, they're not comparable to real-time reporting going back to the year of suspicious newborn deaths. I'm looking forward to a solid documentary.

Yes. I’m wondering how the first alerts were made. What made people suspicious besides the fact that she was always the one on duty.

 

[iamshadow21]

I wonder about her childhood. That's the only bit that catches my attention as appearing so normal. Often there's a part of me that has a pang of empathy for those who commit heinous crimes when you look into their childhoods. Even though they comit awful things, you can almost understand why they are so disturbed. Hers just seems so normal?

The biggest monster in my own family had an idyllic childhood and young adulthood. He was never even spanked, which was almost unheard of for a baby boomer child. His parents were gentle people of steady faith and good principles.

Because of him, I've known since infancy that it's entirely possible for monsters to be born, not made.

MOO

EDIT: I should add, that this in no way absolves him of responsibility for the harm he caused. He got up every day and chose to hurt people by his deliberate actions. Plenty of people live their lives with intrusive thoughts and urges to harm others or themselves that they do not act on. He did what he did because he saw no reason to not be the worst version of himself, and neither, when it came down to it, did Lucy Letby.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I left a&e with nothing. Our source of information came from the chaplain that attended in a&e, without her, we would’ve had nothing.

I am very sorry for your loss and lack of deserved support. The support available should be so much more.

 

[Sundial]

Lucy Letby: The judge's sentencing remarks in full

Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss delivered his sentencing remarks in front of TV cameras as serial baby killer nurse Lucy Letby was sentenced on…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

View attachment 442195
21 August 2023

Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss delivered his sentencing remarks in front of TV cameras as serial baby killer nurse Lucy Letby was sentenced on Monday, August 21.

Here are his sentencing remarks in full:
"The defendant, Lucy Letby, has refused to attend court for this sentence hearing. Accordingly, I have to sentence her in her absence. I shall deliver the sentencing remarks as if she was present to hear them and I direct that she is provided with a transcript of my remarks and copies of the victim personal statements read to the court.

"Lucy Letby, over a period of almost 13 months between June 2015 and June 2016, when in your mid-20s and employed as a neo-natal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital in Chester with specialist training in intensive care, you murdered seven babies and attempted to murder six others, in the case of one of them trying on separate occasions two weeks apart to murder her.

"You are now to be sentenced for your crimes. I order payment of the statutory surcharge in the appropriate amount.

"You acted in a way that was completely contrary to the normal human instincts of nurturing and caring for babies and in gross breach of the trust that all citizens place in those who work in the medical and caring professions.

"The babies you harmed were born prematurely and some were at risk of not surviving, but in each case you deliberately harmed them intending to kill them.


"In your evidence you said that 'hurting a baby is completely against everything that being a nurse is', as, indeed, it should be. You also claimed you never did anything that was meant to hurt a baby and only ever did your best to care for them.

"That was but one of the many lies you were found to have told in this case.

[..]

See the link for much more content.

The picture captures so much heartbreak. So deeply saddening. I cannot comprehend how this must have been, continues to be for them.

 

[Officer Dibble]

trigger warning, petting baby sheep and goats in content

Inside the uni halls-style prison where Lucy Letby could be sent

The 33-year-old, who will be held in segregation at first to stop her being attacked by fellow inmates, is likely to be jailed in HMP Low Newton in Durham alongside Joanna Dennehy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It looks a bit plush. I was wondering if they had a bed of nails.... JMO

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693697527797715074

 

[iamshadow21]

It looks a bit plush. I was wondering if they had a bed of nails.... JMO

The cell pictured is a genpop cell. She will be spending all but an hour a day somewhere a good sight grimmer, and for the foreseeable future, she will never be alone. She's going to be segregated, she's going to be very isolated and bored, and she's going to be watched 24 hours a day by guards.

MOO

 

[Music2022]

Will the full transcript of her questioning on the stand by the prosecution be available? Anyone know?

 

[gc105]

The judge

"His final words, once the television cameras were switched off, were directed towards the families of the victims. To those whose children had been murdered he offered his “serious condolences” and then, as his voice cracked with emotion, he added: “For all of you, your lives will remain transformed. Your behaviour and dignity has been the highest.”

‘My arms felt so painfully empty’: parents of Lucy Letby’s victims tell court of their loss

The murderer would not appear in the dock, as families told of lives turned upside down by horror and grief

www.theguardian.com

This article is utterly heartbreaking

 

[iamshadow21]

Alexithymia is something you find in conditions of Neurodiversity. MOO

You can, but it's experienced much more generally than that, by big segments of the population. Some people experience it naturally, on its own, as how their brain is wired, or as part of a neurodivergent condition, yes, but the vast majority of people who experience it probably do so as part of a condition like depression, where that flatness of emotion, numbness, or confusion about what they're feeling has been broadly described by many people. Low-level alexithymia can also be partly cultural - for example, men are said to experience it at higher rates, possibly because of how men are conditioned to engage - or not - with their emotions, such as sadness.

Alexithymia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MOO

 

[AliceInPain]

The cell pictured is a genpop cell. She will be spending all but an hour a day somewhere a good sight grimmer, and for the foreseeable future, she will never be alone. She's going to be segregated, she's going to be very isolated and bored, and she's going to be watched 24 hours a day by guards.

MOO

How do you know this?
My friend (former friend) got a minimum 35 years and can go outside and have a cigarette and a cup of coffee almost whenever she likes, and there are people who did similar crimes to her where she is so doesn't need to be kept isolated etc.
But I don't know what kind of place this murderer is going to, I know there are differences.

 

[iamshadow21]

How do you know this?
My friend (former friend) got a minimum 35 years and can go outside and have a cigarette and a cup of coffee almost whenever she likes, and there are people who did similar crimes to her where she is so doesn't need to be kept isolated etc.
But I don't know what kind of place this murderer is going to, I know there are differences.

It says it in the caption under the photo. If you have any doubts, just think about how likely it is that she'll be given curtains and a rod to hang them from after just being sentenced to a whole life order. The risk would be obscenely great.

It also says further down the article what Letby's life is going to be like. I already quoted it in a comment a page back, so instead of repeating myself, I'll link back to it.

GUILTY - UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here. Like many here I've followed this case for some time with interest and horror. I must admit when the case started I was on the fence as to her innocence/guilt, but as the prosecution linked all the evidence together and Letby took the stand and her...

www.websleuths.com

MOO

 

[Dcflag]

How do you know this?
My friend (former friend) got a minimum 35 years and can go outside and have a cigarette and a cup of coffee almost whenever she likes, and there are people who did similar crimes to her where she is so doesn't need to be kept isolated etc.
But I don't know what kind of place this murderer is going to, I know there are differences.

It has been quoted in various msm sources but it’s pretty much protocol anyway with a crime like this, especially involving children or being a bit prolific (or big news) that the inmate doesn’t go into gen pop. They like to settle them in and will do a very gradual introduction to gen pop probably spanning several months onwards. This is to protect the inmate.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Listening to those parents today was unbelievably sad. I really hope the verdict brings them at least some measure of justice. Unbelievable really the whole thing. As much peace and healing to them as possible. Rest up, You have just been through hell.

I remember the discussion at the beginning of this thread. “Must be rumours on the ward“, it Couldn’t happen when people are awar of the potentials. Was actually correct but the sequence of events didn’t go as expected. I can’t believe the managers more or less facilitated her actions when there are direct calls to action.

was also thought that due to her appearance and manner that many Thought it unlikely even the police thought it So. Describing her as “beige” correct again but unfortunately really unfortunately incorrect in that yes she isn’t “that type” but apparently “is that type”. That’s a shocking thing to think. That yes many correctly gauged her outward appearance but it was so misleading. Maybe the first real and proper “wolf in a sheep’s clothing”.

now to see what the future will tell about her. See what those investigations uncover I cannot believe baby A was her first. The audacity and cloak and daggers of it is truly horrific.

some other points. Many thought her taking the stand was a bad idea for her, I would agree. According to many who witnessed it that was standout and made her look really bad with many commenting on the lies. I bet she though she could pull it off but nope, not happening and good for that.

was fascinating to hear her talk in that police interview. I remember someone here who saw her in court talking ab the way she talked. I saw that there, voice changed into dulcet tones “like a switch”. Was so interesting to hear and then see her reaction when stating “yes” to the question and then the blinking as well. Absolutely just shocking to the core. I thought allot of her not coming up for sentencing and the verdicts. I don’t think a innocent person would In that circumstance.

props and thanks to everyone who followed this and contributed. From start to finish it’s been an interesting thing to participate in. Imo I think the jury probably followed our lines of thought. There have been many similarities in our discussion and the broader talk as well but gladly not as many fb nuts. I think the majority thought g on most but not all, that’s what she got. I would also agree in that I think it shows they did their due diligence.

I hope the rest of yours Lucy letby is an utter misery to the point you forget the colour pink existed.

 

[Furore]

Yes. I’m wondering how the first alerts were made. What made people suspicious besides the fact that she was always the one on duty.

Unexpected deaths are unusual. It isn’t normal to collapse out of the blue, Dr Brearey said he sat down after the first three deaths to look into it

Hospital bosses ignored months of doctors' warnings about Lucy Letby - BBC News

Hospital bosses failed to investigate allegations and tried to silence doctors, BBC investigation finds.

www.bbc.com

All hospital divisions have regular morbidity and mortality meetings anyway for educational purposes Morbidity & Mortality Meetings - Mind The Bleep.

The paediatricians had decades of experience, the deaths had accelerated, and nothing about the babies medically could explain a sudden collapse. I think at first you’d suspect incompetence then foul play. JMO