Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #10

[Dinosaursplash]

Since WC has self-harmed to the point of needing to go to the hospital, why can't he be restrained or placed in a padded cell or some other method to keep him from doing so?

Because that isn't a thing outside of mental institutions.

 

[Urbanfox1]

My understanding is that two experts need to agree on the diagnosis of a recognised psychiatric condition. The burden of proof is very, very high for this kind of defence - this is from Wikipedia on the section of English law but a good summary IMHO:

Section 2 of the Homicide Act 1957 states: (1) Where a person kills or is party to a killing of another, he shall not be convicted of murder if he was suffering from an abnormality of mental functioning which -

(a) arose from a medical condition

(b) substantially impaired D's ability to do one or more of the things mentioned in subsection (1A), and

(c) provides an explanation for D's acts and omissions in doing or being a party to the killing.

(1A) Those things are -

(a) to understand the nature of D's conduct;

(b) to form a rational judgment;

(c) to exercise self-control.

Based on this, MOO, he'll never get such a defence to stick, and I doubt his lawyer(s) will even let him try.

Thanks for sourcing. I had in the back of my mind an example of this - it’s Robert Napper who killed Rachel Nickell. Rachel Nickell's killer finally brought to justice

 

[angelbabe]

JMO on the scenario for SE getting into the car would be as follows:

WC: Hi, I am a police officer ( Shows badge), I have seen a man following you for the last 20 minutes, would you like me to give you a lift home so he can't find out where you live/ attack you

SE: Has to choose between a cop with a badge, or the man following her ( He obviously isn't real, but is she willing to take that gamble?)

I think she would get in the car

 

[Beswickcat]

I was interested in the developments prior to his arrest. Now I find the gossip and chit chat in this forum no better than watching Eastenders

wannabe detectives, hopefully you will find more things to occupy yourself when lockdown is over

I'm not a wannabee detective.
I'm a concerned parent whose eldest daughter lives in Wimbledon, not that far imo from where the crime happened and my daughter has a friend in common with Sarah, so it has really hit close to home for both of us.
I keep thinking that could have been my daughter and my daughter keeps thinking that could have been me, so it's really shocking and frightening.
I will be following and commenting until they find him, (or the person that did it) , guilty, then lock them up and throw away the key.
This is a discussion group where people discuss things.
So, not a detective, just a worried mum.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Apologies if this has been answered / discussed as I'm still pages behind in catching up but I'm still very curious about his wife's involvement.

She was arrested at exactly the same time - which seemed really unusual - for assisting an offender. At that point I believe it was still on suspicion of kidnapping rather than murder. All MSM so far says she was 'arrested' not brought in for questioning as a witness.

She also appears to have been released on bail to return to a police station in April rather than just released.

So not clearly proclaimed as innocent and sent home which I'd have expected if there was no known suspicion of involvement.

Arrest at the same time would preclude lying about his whereabouts or providing an alibi as she couldn't have been questioned at that point. No opportunity to lie. Plus isn't there some protection of spouses which means they don't have answer questions about the suspects movements?

Released on bail suggests she is not considered completely innocent either

The only things I can think of are helping hide or dispose of evidence or - and I think this highly unlikely - she was in the car as well.

I'm just curious. I can only think of helping to hide or dispose of evidence.

I would guess she hired the car in her name. Which would be suspicious on its own as they already have 2 cars and police want to know why she hired it and not him

 

[Armchair_Defective]

But what would cause SE to go over to the car? I personally, at that time of night, even if I saw hazard lights on, would keep walking. A conversion by him must have been started IMO, to get SE to notice him. I just don’t know what he said to get her attention.

This articles says;

''At around 9.35pm, a bus camera captured two figures on Poynders Road and a white Vauxhall Astra with its hazard lights flashing.''

Sarah Everard’s body found in builder’s bag, court told

That doesn't say she was filmed being close enough to get in or actually getting in the car. The car could have been positioned waiting for her to go past and as the account is worded above, it doesn't say where he was positioned either. He could have been waiting for her to get close and then pulled her in. So maybe the footage shows her close or just on the same road to the car, him somewhere quite close or he was in the car and then shortly after she is gone, so the police then thought he was likely involved and tracked the car. IMO.

 

[beforethegladness]

I wonder how the Custody Police felt, it has to be quite unusual for them to have 'one of their own' in there for such an awful and high profile crime.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is strangely comforting to read what you have shared.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

DBM

 

[jenpil]

...wasn’t he arrested after arriving home from work? and it was definitely stated he worked a shift till 8pm on the night Sarah disappeared so I’m confused with these new times.. what is correct??

Perhaps he worked the 14.00hrs to 20.00hrs shift on both of those nights?

 

[suzyjackson]

Since WC has self-harmed to the point of needing to go to the hospital, why can't he be restrained or placed in a padded cell or some other method to keep him from doing so?

Is a padded cell a real thing in a police station? Surely that's not an actual standard room

JMO

 

[Audiohoney]

Apologies if this has been answered / discussed as I'm still pages behind in catching up but I'm still very curious about his wife's involvement.

She was arrested at exactly the same time - which seemed really unusual - for assisting an offender. At that point I believe it was still on suspicion of kidnapping rather than murder. All MSM so far says she was 'arrested' not brought in for questioning as a witness.

She also appears to have been released on bail to return to a police station in April rather than just released.

So not clearly proclaimed as innocent and sent home which I'd have expected if there was no known suspicion of involvement.

Arrest at the same time would preclude lying about his whereabouts or providing an alibi as she couldn't have been questioned at that point. No opportunity to lie. Plus isn't there some protection of spouses which means they don't have answer questions about the suspects movements?

Released on bail suggests she is not considered completely innocent either

The only things I can think of are helping hide or dispose of evidence or - and I think this highly unlikely - she was in the car as well.

I'm just curious. I can only think of helping to hide or dispose of evidence.

I could be completely wrong here, but I do wonder if she stupidly gave him an alibi. He lied to her, said he needed help to cover his tracks for an innocent reason ie: ‘please say I was home by 10pm’ and she went along with it.

Perhaps their reason for bringing her in was that they were aware she’d crack pretty early on. She’d want to be with her kids, the horror of what he was actually being arrested for etc. And perhaps they used her to obtain as much information as possible.

Not to mention the benefit of having everybody removed from the house so that they could carry out thorough searches.

JMO.

 

[Dinosaursplash]

I hope he is, after two attempts to harm himself.

No, because it's that common it's barely even aknowledged beyond superficial medical treatment. Most are just given a sedative suppository until they chill the f out.

Psychiatric hold would be for someone chewing their fingers off or something akin to that.

 

[PomPom123]

Teen dragged into bushes in rape attack

Not sure if this has been posted already in the many threads but this CCTV image of a man wanted for rape looks identical to WC to me

Yes I posted this yesterday as I was struck by the physical resemblance but it's a different individual who was arrested for this crime.

 

[leroy81]

Is a padded cell a real thing in a police station? Surely that's not an actual standard room

JMO

They can be. I've done some filming work in fair few and I'd say 30% I've seen a padded cell. They are usually closest to the desk and have a window to see in (I presume before the days of CCTV).

They aren't padded in the way you imagine in films with mattress style walls. High density rubber normally

 

[Dinosaursplash]

I wonder how the Custody Police felt, it has to be quite unusual for them to have 'one of their own' in there for such an awful and high profile crime.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is strangely comforting to read what you have shared.

Police forces publish their own disciplinary figures, you can read through them and get a better picture of how many are dismissed in a local force after being arrested for similar. Police officers have much higher than average incidence of domestic violence at home, for example.

 

[suzyjackson]

JMO to me the only scenario for SE getting into the car would be as follows:

WC: Why are you out here? where have you been? I’m a policeman here’s my badge. (COVID laws introduced)

WC: I have to give you a warning. (Paperwork & fine) Where are you heading? I’ll give you a lift home.

WCs authoritative position was likely conveyed immediately.

I'm not in London but at the start of the 3rd lockdown there were a lot of local issues in my area of police being over zealous in stopping people out and about and it was clarified that walking outside is not against lockdown rules and I can't imagine anyone calmly accepting a warning for doing something perfectly legal but I accept that things might be different in London

JMO

 

[Emmalt]

I do wonder if he did the 'I've broken down can I borrow your phone to call abc.. ' turned her phone of and kidnapped her.. esp now with the hazard lights flashing.. jmo

 

[Emmalt]

DBM... comment added twice

 

[imstilla.grandma]

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[Urbanfox1]

Apologies if this has been answered / discussed as I'm still pages behind in catching up but I'm still very curious about his wife's involvement.

She was arrested at exactly the same time - which seemed really unusual - for assisting an offender. At that point I believe it was still on suspicion of kidnapping rather than murder. All MSM so far says she was 'arrested' not brought in for questioning as a witness.

She also appears to have been released on bail to return to a police station in April rather than just released.

So not clearly proclaimed as innocent and sent home which I'd have expected if there was no known suspicion of involvement.

Arrest at the same time would preclude lying about his whereabouts or providing an alibi as she couldn't have been questioned at that point. No opportunity to lie. Plus isn't there some protection of spouses which means they don't have answer questions about the suspects movements?

Released on bail suggests she is not considered completely innocent either

The only things I can think of are helping hide or dispose of evidence or - and I think this highly unlikely - she was in the car as well.

I'm just curious. I can only think of helping to hide or dispose of evidence.

I could be completely wrong here, but I do wonder if she stupidly gave him an alibi. He lied to her, said he needed help to cover his tracks for an innocent reason ie: ‘please say I was home by 10pm’ and she went along with it.

Perhaps their reason for bringing her in was that they were aware she’d crack pretty early on. She’d want to be with her kids, the horror of what he was actually being arrested for etc. And perhaps they used her to obtain as much information as possible.

Not to mention the benefit of having everybody removed from the house so that they could carry out thorough searches.

JMO.

yes that’s what I think. Also if there’s a possibility of another separate charge they get around compellability issues as spouse (see discussion above) and they’ve covered all their bases so
Far as legally can at that stage. IMHO