UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6

[imstilla.grandma]

A metal hydroxide usually sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. It's an alkali - the opposite of an acid - and a very common lab chemical and a very common component of household cleaning products including soap l due to its ability to dissolve grease and fat. Very corrosive in a concentrated form but safely used by 11 year olds when diluted. It's found in hundreds of ordinary labs because it's useful in lots of reactions.

We teach our year 7s that the soapy feeling they get if they get it on their hands is it dissolving the fat. Our A level students use a more concentrated form yo make soap. Concentrated it is very corrosive

If lye was used to disintegrate, is it possible Sarah’s phone was also placed into this chemical? So much info yesterday, forgive me but I think I remember a few of Sarah’s items are missing. I forget what they are. There must have been enough residual remains and or personal belongings at the find scene to notify Sarah’s parents before official coroner determination of identification. Would lye completely dissolve dentures, metal fillings or jewelry?

 

[Moll]

That would not be accidental and it is victim blaming to even suggest that she would be involved in that in a consensual way.

I agree, and don't think it could possibly be claimed or is relevant here.

Just by the way though, efforts are being made in the UK to make it impossible to claim strangulation was a part of consensual sex. From an article in 'Counsel':
'During the reading of the Domestic Abuse Bill in June 2020 Jess Phillips MP proposed that non-fatal strangulation be made an offence by adding that ‘A person (A) commits an offence if that person unlawfully strangles, suffocates, or asphyxiates another person (B) to whom they are personally connected as defined in s 2 of this Act, where the strangulation, suffocation or asphyxiation does not result in B’s death’ (16 June). This was rejected by the government, but Baroness Newlove urged further consideration when the matter was debated in the House of Lords on 5 January 2021; and Lord Lucas commended the NZ provision. After debate on 3 February 2021, amendments proposed by Baroness Newlove did not proceed, but Clause 65 remains and the government promised further consideration.'
EDIT I couldn't find the item confirming that this Bill did get through, but another poster has supplied this, I now see. Good for Jess Phillips.

 

[valy]

God the front left car has really creeped me out. Zoom in - quite a lot of movement from the driver and the towards the end of the clip, a lot of movement in the back right like someone is reaching or head is out of the window. Very eery[/QUOTE

Hi, I am new here; I joined because I am quite shocked about what happened to SE; I have just seen this clip and has creeped me out as well; I wonder if this was one of the police leads to WC

 

[San111]

THIS. Thank goodness someone has said it. Any woman who has never been attacked by a strange man has no idea how strong and lightening quick men are. He could have had her in that car and restrained before she even knew what hit her. The only slim hope that a highly situationally aware woman would have had would have been to have seen him coming, knock him off balance and run, but the guy's centre of gravity is about 30 inches from the ground - she would have had no chance at all - I would have had no chance and I can fight and have 80lb on her.

Also - the Met Police use tricks - which I have seen first hand - to inflict pain and/or instantly immobilise people - even very large men - two I have seen used are something they do to a person's ear to bring them to the floor helpless, and another similiar thing with a finger. If he wanted her in the car, she would have been put straight in the car - no negotiation or stories needed.

I don't doubt he could have got her in a car pretty quickly but it would be very tricky to do that all on the south circular without someone else getting involved. To be driving about, get close enough to spot her as a female, make a quick decision to pull up just in front, jump out and get her in a car would just take too much time unless you were incredibly lucky with traffic at that instant. More likely that is if he did grab her it would have been into a side area (Poynders or Rodenhurst Road) first then into his car. Perhaps he drove past her on the road and then waited for her to make it to that point before confronting her, Rodenhurst is the first road on the left once you pass Abbeville. There's a couple of residential car parks but they don't offer a get away route

 

[Columboshound]

I think your post perfectly highlights just how little we know about our rights, what correct police procedure would be and whether we should get into a car. I'd check the warrant card carefully if they weren't obviously in uniform but that would be it. Then I'd probably comply completely.

hoping this crime doesn’t spur on copycat crimes with men realising how compliant many are and all they need to do is flash some badge they can buy on eBay for a victim to get in their Volvo...

 

[Sherlockhames]

Oh wow.. it looks like someone hanging out the back passenger window and the driver turning around to the back. Could that be WC and SE? IMO

Chilling. (Child locks?)

 

[Prints1994]

I find certain theories a bit insulting. Some people seem to jump to certain conclusions when the victim is a woman (in Sarah's case, 'She must have known him' or 'maybe they were having an affair', or even the theory she was urinating in public. Luckily not many people on here seem to believe such things, but it seems fairly obvious to me that WC is most likely a long time sex offender, and came across Sarah as she walked home and took a chance to escalate his perverted fantasy.

My mother had several terrifying encounters with strange men at night when she lived in London as a young woman in the 70's, one man even drove after her into a deserted street and tried to pull her into his car, shouting that he was going to rape and kill her. Whilst it seems almost other worldly to the majority of us, these predators are very real and can strike at any moment, should the circumstance allow.

 

[Lod76]

Why do people keep insisting that she must have known him? Is it to victim blame?

JMO But I think the thought of a random abduction is terrifying for most and they don't want to think it can happen. So I don't think it's about blaming the victim no. For me though it had random abduction written all over it from the first news report I saw which is why I took such an interest. Though it is rare, I think you just get a feeling with some cases immediately that something is not right and the police probably get that too.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Mersault]

I think if it started off as a lesser crime like indecent exposure and she took evidence of it using her phone the escalation theory would be far more likely an anger response.

Being everything syncs to the cloud these days I can’t imagine taking the phone and her was to disguise evidence. IMO more likely that it could trigger a violent response knowing he has been caught

Although I don’t think either is a plausible theory as even by Friday morning her online accounts and her phone would be being extensively checked and the evidence would come to light almost immediately.

Only other possibility is if he thinks somthing has been captured and responds violently but t actually hasn’t...

My phone only syncs to the cloud when connected to wifi (and with sufficient battery) so she could have taken a photo but then her phone was destroyed before it connected.

 

[elliefant]

No. The case, was a young female was murdered by a male she worked with (in the armed forces, he was of higher rank).
She was doing a stock check on items in the store.
He took the body out in a large case (on camera).

Vanessa Guillen?

Found Deceased - TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020

 

[Nikynoo]

I agree, and don't think it could possibly be claimed or is relevant here.

Just by the way though, efforts are being made in the UK to make it impossible to claim strangulation was a part of consensual sex. From an article in 'Counsel':
'During the reading of the Domestic Abuse Bill in June 2020 Jess Phillips MP proposed that non-fatal strangulation be made an offence by adding that ‘A person (A) commits an offence if that person unlawfully strangles, suffocates, or asphyxiates another person (B) to whom they are personally connected as defined in s 2 of this Act, where the strangulation, suffocation or asphyxiation does not result in B’s death’ (16 June). This was rejected by the government, but Baroness Newlove urged further consideration when the matter was debated in the House of Lords on 5 January 2021; and Lord Lucas commended the NZ provision. After debate on 3 February 2021, amendments proposed by Baroness Newlove did not proceed, but Clause 65 remains and the government promised further consideration.'

and there was me thinking that you could not give consent to serious harm................

 

[Gibbo214]

No, its to explore whether there is a link between the 2.

And what would that prove? That it is somehow not as bad as if he were a stranger?

 

[LucyRocket]

I think unlikely too, however looking at property deets it was bought in ja 2001 for a little under £60.000,its now valued at £235.000,thats big increase in price, there may have been money available to rent somewhere imo x

June 2016 for £200k is the last recorded sale

 

[London78]

hoping this crime doesn’t spur on copycat crimes with men realising how compliant many are and all they need to do is flash some badge they can buy on eBay for a victim to get in their Volvo...

That sounds like victim blaming. Most people would not feel comfortable challenging what appears to be police.

 

[SpursGyal]

Watching SkyNews now, they are reporting dogs arriving at the search site. This search is far from over, for whatever reason.

 

[Sleuthamy7]

Sorry I’ve just caught up with this again. For those asking about the references to number plates - number 6) in this article notes that a member of public found number plates near by and they were placed in evidence bags. No suggestion yet that it’s linked/he used them - would be odd for him to have left them there?

The search for Sarah Everard: What we know about her last movements

 

[Sketchy]

I don't think this is victim blaming, just trying to understand why she would get into the car.

But why wouldn't she get in the car if he had police identification or a weapon? If she thought he was a police officer she likely wouldn't have wanted to resist arrest and make the situation worse (even if she hadn't done anything wrong in the first place). And if he had a weapon the assumption that she would definitely have tried to run or fight is not necessarily accurate. I'm around Sarah's age and size. I was held up at gunpoint twice in the past. I have more than 10 years mixed martial arts experience, and yet in both instances I didn't try to fight because my assessment of the situation was that I didn't reasonably stand a chance and may have made the situation worse.

 

[Evo25]

Although it is always shocking, we can't just say its unlikely they didn't know each other, we have seen numerous cases of stranger murder, of women simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

According to the ONS, as of March 2019 in England and Wales, the percentage of women killed by a stranger was 6%. Those are your wrong place wrong time cases.

37% of female murders actually had no suspect identified at all. It is possible they were strangers too, but it cannot be confirmed. If we assume that this entire 37% were strangers then the percentage range for stranger murder is as low as 6% up to a potential maximum of 43% if we credit all unidentified killers as strangers. This means that an average of 27% of female murders are conducted by a stranger.

The stats show that women killed by someone they knew sits in a percentage range of at least 57% and up to a potential maximum of 93% if we credit all unidentified killers as being known to the victim. This means that an average of 73% of female murders are conducted by someone they knew.

So SE was around 3 times more likely to have been murdered by someone she knew, than a stranger. It is of course entirely possible she has been murdered by a stranger, but it is significantly less likely.

 

[Nikynoo]

And what would that prove? That it is somehow not as bad as if he were a stranger?

To develop theories of what could have happened? Its what we do here. Some think stranger abduction unlikely, others don't. They build their theories from information available. I am not sure what your train of thought is here.

The post above this actually sets out the % of stranger vs known assailants. I have posted it here for ease of reference.
UK - UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6