VA- 6-YEAR-OLD is in custody after shooting teacher

[shotgun09]

I know we will not get much information on this case due to his age but I can't help but wonder about his home life and what was going on in this little fellow's head.

My Daddy ( may he RIP ) used to say that a child like this thought he was " too big for his britches".

 

[ilovewings]

My Daddy ( may he RIP ) used to say that a child like this thought he was " too big for his britches".

There arent many kids "like this"--6year olds dont usually kill people

 

[cujenn81]

Did this child ride a bus to and from school? Has that been mentioned?

Chief said mom drove him to school.

Other nuggets of information I found to be significant:

He told Abigail that he believes she saved lives by ensuring her students left the classroom.

The shooter was combative and hit the employee who was detaining him when police arrived.

A single bullet was fired from a 9mm Taurus handgun. The gun was found on the floor next to the student’s desk.

The shooting took place while the teacher was giving classroom instruction. There wasn’t a verbal argument or physical altercation before the student pulled the gun out of his backpack.

He reiterated the shooting was intentional and not an accident.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

As a teacher myself…. What I want to know is how this child’s behavior has been previously, including pre k and k? And how were those concerns addressed if teachers reported them? Folks better buckle up if they think this is going to get better any time soon. MOO

 

[sallye818]

Yes, I agree @FunkyMonkey ... I'm willing to bet he has had many behavior problems and reports before now. The trend, as I'm seeing (former preschool teacher, have my own day care now, and keep in touch with preschool workers & ECE's) seems to be kids feeling like they "rule the roost" and discipline problems get poo-pooed, swept under the rug, teachers get hit, spit on, cursed at, etc. One complaint I hear also is parents expect the schools to deal with the behavior problems. However, many times, no real consequences are carried out at school or home. Then, the issues only get bigger and more severe.

 

[HMSHood]

Really disturbing case. Reminds me of Kayla Rolland being killed in 2000. The killer was 6 years old and had behavior problems.

Killing of Kayla Rolland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stunned]

As a teacher myself…. What I want to know is how this child’s behavior has been previously, including pre k and k? And how were those concerns addressed if teachers reported them? Folks better buckle up if they think this is going to get better any time soon. MOO

Exactly. I bet there were problems in PreK. The things you witness!

 

[airportwoman]

Weren't these kids who were shipped off to "reform school" back in the olden days?

 

[everybodhi]

This case is different from the Crumbley’s and Oxford HS Shooting, but in EC’s case his parents were arrested. That is the first time parents have been held responsible to that degree in the murders perpetrated by a minor.

I‘m in Texas, it is common here for rural kids to be trained how to use guns for a variety of purposes. I’ve been around guns all my life.

Trigger Locks???
There is nothing difficult about trigger locks, but they do not belong on a gun for protection.
A gun for home protection must be out of a safe, without a trigger lock, loaded, and within
quick reach. If a gun meant for protection is not available to use, having one is pointless.
Any idea how long it takes to open a safe, remove a trigger lock, and load a gun? Too long

It is not apathy or laziness regarding trigger locks that is the issue IMO, it is the location that would keep a gun from a child’s hands.

Dad had guns in several rooms of our rural home- but when we were too young to use them we had no idea they were there as there was no way we could have gotten to them.
My mom had a loaded 45 on top of our refrigerator, there was another loaded 45 on a hook behind their master headboard, and another on top of our grandfather clock. I was about 8 when I was told they were there, and shown how to use them.
It was after my brother and I had taken a gun safety class- 8 yrs of age.

I have three 38 revolvers in my home. One is within quick reach from my bed, the other I can reach from my front door, the other is in the kitchen above the fridge. None of them have trigger locks, are in safes, or unloaded. If an intruder came into my home, they better know my floor plan better than I do So they can get back out quickly. I have no intention of being a victim of any kind of violent crime in my own home.

This child had access to a loaded gun, got it into a backpack, out of the house, with the mindset and intent to shoot his teacher.
There are a lot of red flags in that statement, the location of the gun is one of them.

JMO- as a single mom of two teens

It’s very rare

‘THE GUN’S NOT IN THE CLOSET’
BBM
Of 105 school shootings perpetrated by kids under age 18 between 1999 and 2018 where the source of the weapon was known, 80% of the weapons were from the shooter’s own home or the homes of relatives or friends.
Four adults were convicted during that time for not locking their guns.

Mother of Indiana school shooter sentenced to probation

The Latest: Dad of Washington school shooter gets 2 years

 

[everybodhi]

I wasn’t aware that the child would appear before a judge.

“Because of the student's age, the boy must wait 96 hours before appearing in front of a judge who will determine if he needs continual treatment or what his next step may be, officials said. His fate will be decided by individuals who specialize in dealing with 6-year-olds, officials said.”

I wonder if there will be any information shared about previous behavior issues. Was this the first incident? One of many? Moo

From this article:

Virginia school shooting: 6-year-old brought gun in backpack, fired during instruction​

Edited to fix quote

How First-Grader Shooting Teacher Could Lead to Courtroom Showdown

Under Virginia statute..any prosecution in this case would be handled in the state’s juvenile/domestic relations (“JDR”) courts..evidence are far looser, proceedings are generally closed to the public, records are usually sealed, and juries are not used.

..it is seriously doubtful that a 6-year-old child would even be deemed competent to stand trial.

To establish competency, the child would need to have “substantial capacity to understand the proceedings against him or to assist his attorney in his own defense” — not the typical development of a first-grader.

Furthermore, given the child’s very young age, a court would likely use its discretion to favor therapeutic rather than punitive measures.

 

[sandy_80]

i am not saying its the same thing..
but lately there has been cases of 3 year old and a 5 year old ..caught driving a fast car on busy roads...both cases ended as funny viral videos but what if the kid killed someone or got killed.. should the parent have been held responsible for not securing car keys or possibly showing a toddler how to drive ?

just food for thought ..about kids these days with all the crazy exposure around from the internet and SM and video games and tv.. age doesnt mean the same thing it used to exactly

 

[ilovewings]

i am not saying its the same thing..
but lately there has been cases of 3 year old and a 5 year old ..caught driving a fast car on busy roads...both cases ended as funny viral videos but what if the kid killed someone or got killed.. should the parent have been held responsible for not securing car keys or possibly showing a toddler how to drive ?

just food for thought ..about kids these days with all the crazy exposure around from the internet and SM and video games and tv.. age doesnt mean the same thing it used to exactly

That may be true but the need for proper parental supervision has not changed and never will

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Weren't these kids who were shipped off to "reform school" back in the olden days?

That, or send the child to Catholic school and let the nuns handle a discipline problem. I went to a parochial school in the '50s/60s. There were a few expulsions over the years, but one in particular resonates because the boy was in my fourth grade class. He was new to the school that year and was a problem from the start. I suspect that this child had behavior issues wherever he had gone to school previously and might have fit the category of "sending him to the nuns" for more discipline.

I don't recall the exact circumstances of the classroom altercation with our teacher, but the boy went up to Sister's desk, took her ink bottle out of the well on her desk, and threw it in her face and all over the white collar of her habit. Everyone in the classroom gasped: None of us had ever seen anything like this happen in our school. The boy ran out of the room, and the principal arrived a few minutes later. The classmate was expelled immediately.

I get that having ink thrown in your face and on clothing isn't the same as shooting a teacher, but my fourth grade classmate definitely had some serious psychological issues at a young age. I hope he eventually got the help he needed. JMO

 

[Stunned]

That, or send the child to Catholic school and let the nuns handle a discipline problem. I went to a parochial school in the '50s/60s. There were a few expulsions over the years, but one in particular resonates because the boy was in my fourth grade class. He was new to the school that year and was a problem from the start. I suspect that this child had behavior issues wherever he had gone to school previously and might have fit the category of "sending him to the nuns" for more discipline.

I don't recall the exact circumstances of the classroom altercation with our teacher, but the boy went up to Sister's desk, took her ink bottle out of the well on her desk, and threw it in her face and all over the white collar of her habit. Everyone in the classroom gasped: None of us had ever seen anything like this happen in our school. The boy ran out of the room, and the principal arrived a few minutes later. The classmate was expelled immediately.

I get that having ink thrown in your face and on clothing isn't the same as shooting a teacher, but my fourth grade classmate definitely had some serious psychological issues at a young age. I hope he eventually got the help he needed. JMO

I know it’s not even close to what this child did but I was in Catholic school in the early 60s, I would probably need therapy (if it was even invented then!)seeing that done to a nun! And I hated the nuns!

 

[ilovewings]

That, or send the child to Catholic school and let the nuns handle a discipline problem. I went to a parochial school in the '50s/60s. There were a few expulsions over the years, but one in particular resonates because the boy was in my fourth grade class. He was new to the school that year and was a problem from the start. I suspect that this child had behavior issues wherever he had gone to school previously and might have fit the category of "sending him to the nuns" for more discipline.

I don't recall the exact circumstances of the classroom altercation with our teacher, but the boy went up to Sister's desk, took her ink bottle out of the well on her desk, and threw it in her face and all over the white collar of her habit. Everyone in the classroom gasped: None of us had ever seen anything like this happen in our school. The boy ran out of the room, and the principal arrived a few minutes later. The classmate was expelled immediately.

I get that having ink thrown in your face and on clothing isn't the same as shooting a teacher, but my fourth grade classmate definitely had some serious psychological issues at a young age. I hope he eventually got the help he needed. JMO

That is quite a memory- and that was back in more innocent times-- he definitely had what we would now describe as "anger issues'

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

i am not saying its the same thing..
but lately there has been cases of 3 year old and a 5 year old ..caught driving a fast car on busy roads...both cases ended as funny viral videos but what if the kid killed someone or got killed.. should the parent have been held responsible for not securing car keys or possibly showing a toddler how to drive ?

just food for thought ..about kids these days with all the crazy exposure around from the internet and SM and video games and tv.. age doesnt mean the same thing it used to exactly

Yep, accepting and owning and living with responsibility for our actions just doesn't mean what it used to mean.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

That, or send the child to Catholic school and let the nuns handle a discipline problem. I went to a parochial school in the '50s/60s. There were a few expulsions over the years, but one in particular resonates because the boy was in my fourth grade class. He was new to the school that year and was a problem from the start. I suspect that this child had behavior issues wherever he had gone to school previously and might have fit the category of "sending him to the nuns" for more discipline.

I don't recall the exact circumstances of the classroom altercation with our teacher, but the boy went up to Sister's desk, took her ink bottle out of the well on her desk, and threw it in her face and all over the white collar of her habit. Everyone in the classroom gasped: None of us had ever seen anything like this happen in our school. The boy ran out of the room, and the principal arrived a few minutes later. The classmate was expelled immediately.

I get that having ink thrown in your face and on clothing isn't the same as shooting a teacher, but my fourth grade classmate definitely had some serious psychological issues at a young age. I hope he eventually got the help he needed. JMO

OT - Catholic elementary school in the 70s, got my mouth washed out with a bar of soap by nuns in 1st grade for calling someone a dummy. I've never forgotten it and I am early 50s now. Still have a potty mouth but I know how to be professional and maybe that helped me not be a bully later in life, who knows?

 

[chipwhitley]

I taught first grade for years. One year I had a very angry student. He would throw chairs and knock desks over when something didn't go his way. He even pushed me one time when I walked to my desk to call for the office to assist me, then he fought the employees who came to help him. It's scary to think what could have happened if he had access to a gun like this child. I hope this child gets the help he so obviously needs.

Prayers for healing for Ms. Zwerner.

 

[shotgun09]

I looked up the type of handgun used in the shooting ( per press briefing yesterday ) A Taurus 9mm.

Not claiming any expertise in the weapon industry, but IMO, this gun looks to be a fairly cheap, small-ish type handgun. Generally speaking, as we don't know the exact make and model.

The 6 year old either picked up ( From home ) a fully loaded handgun, (with the safety off !!! ) or he had some knowledge of how to operate the weapon, and removed safety switch. Did he activate the clip, and load it himself? If so, how did he know how to perform this?

Did he watch youtube videos on how to operate a Taurus 9mm on his own cell phone? ......<s> ....<sort of>

It also was unclear as to how close to Abigail he was...
Nor, do we know if he was sitting at his desk at the time of the shooting, or was he standing?

Just more questions..
Regardless of those, just exactly where did his mother keep the gun at the home?

 

[ilovewings]

I looked up the type of handgun used in the shooting ( per press briefing yesterday ) A Taurus 9mm.

Not claiming any expertise in the weapon industry, but IMO, this gun looks to be a fairly cheap, small-ish type handgun. Generally speaking, as we don't know the exact make and model.

The 6 year old either picked up ( From home ) a fully loaded handgun, (with the safety off !!! ) or he had some knowledge of how to operate the weapon, and removed safety switch. Did he activate the clip, and load it himself? If so, how did he know how to perform this?

Did he watch youtube videos on how to operate a Taurus 9mm on his own cell phone? ......<s> ....<sort of>

It also was unclear as to how close to Abigail he was...
Nor, do we know if he was sitting at his desk at the time of the shooting, or was he standing?

Just more questions..
Regardless of those, just exactly where did his mother keep the gun at the home?

Those are very good questions!!!