VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

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LE has not released a lot of info they have, I'm sure. From what they have told us, JM was with Hannah, left a place with Hannah and is the last person they can place with her. Her trail goes cold (from what we know) after that point. If indeed a bar tender served JM and Hannah without checking IDs, that person could be in trouble, yes, but most people, given the seriousness of this situation would still report the sighting to the police. Perhaps, they granted immunity for that transgression. Also, many college students have fake ID.

The police had JM right within arm's reach twice. Once at his apartment when they searched and seized his car, and again when he walked into the police station armed with an attorney. They did not move to go after him either time. When he left, he apparently drove recklessly enough to get a warrent out for his arrest. Also, someone just figured out they could possibly go after him for giving alcohol to someone under age. There is no mention of arresting him for the disappearance of Hannah Graham.

Bear in mind that even if evidence of Hannah being in the car is found, what can they accuse JM for? No body? She could have been in the car, left the car and gone off with someone else. She could be alive right now with someone. It's happened before.

Frankly, it appears to me that JM left with Hannah who was "out of it" and they went somewhere in his car, and something bad happened. I would not be surprised if she were killed or injured badly and her body tossed off somewhere. But there is no evidence of that as of now.

I would advise any friends or family being questioned hostiley by police with evidence putting them in a bad way, to get an attorney skilled in this area and follow that attorney's advice. JM is an African American male under suspicioun about a white woman's disappearance in a southern state. Something that is not going make anyone who knows him feel comfortable about his predicament.

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that JM told the attorney that he tried to pick up someone fitting Hannah's descrip that night and bought her a drink, maybe even took her to his car but that was it. Attorney might have advised him to keep mouth shut and stay away from Charlottesville until more development arises. I don't believe an attorney is permitted to keep quiet about possible or actual harm, so most guilty clients will lie about the actual crime, and the attorney will have to go by that.

As for LE, they don't have anything more than this, so they are focusing their attention on JM. Statistically, I think they are on the right track, but the way LE works, they go after whoever is in their sights with a vengeance until proven wrong. ANyone who has watched some of the ID real life crime shows can see how various police have doggedly gone after POI after POI, sure that the person was the perp until a piece of evidence comes up disproving their theory They tend to have trouble, as a rule, to focus on more than one thing at a time, IMO.

Still, it's usually the simplest thing that is what happened, and this looks pretty straight forward to me. That they did not have the wits to grab JM when they had him doesn't make me feel like they are the smartest cats in the field.
 
Maybe more. IIRC he told his mother who told grandma who told Charlottesville person (reporter?) who provided (IMO sold) story to DailyMail.

By Nick Fagge In Charlottesville, Virginia For Mailonline

Matthew’s grandmother, Christine Carr, told MailOnline on Saturday: ‘I have been talking with his mother.

‘He said he went his way and she went hers. He told his mother he bought her some drinks. He said she did not get into his car.

‘The girl went her way and he went his.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reds-volunteers-search-her.html#ixzz3E06AgikO

LOL. Reminds me of my family. I tell my sister a story, she then repeats to my other sisters, and 8 hours later the story and people are completely different. My family and I would never make good eyewitnesses.
 
Really? A 20 minute flyby at 1 o'clock in the morning? 32 year old and 18 year old? Happens all the time? With all due respect, Hannah IS missing. And he was the last person seen with her. MOO.

Is there somewhere that states he knew she was 18? I feel like the older I get the harder it is to distinguish between late teens/early twenties. I've never looked exactly like my age, always younger. I spent a lot of time at bars in my early twenties, had very brief interactions with men (I'll let him buy me a drink then decide in not into it) while some ended up back at home.

I'm not saying he's innocent or that him being the last person to be seen in public with her isn't suspicious. Of course it would be great if he fully cooperated. We all want Hannah home.
 
http://www1.salary.com/Patient-Transporter-Salary.html

According to the above he makes about 25k a year. More than enough to afford a better car IMO. Ive seen servers who make considerably less than that driving nicer vehicles.

My question is what is he spending his money on?

What exactly are you trying to imply by this question? He would make less that 2k/month after taxes. That is not a lot of money. You are left with very little after bills, savings, food, gas, etc.
 
Forgive me if this has already been answered, but do the police actually have a record of all of HG's phone texts, or are they relying on the texts that were received by her friends on their phones? Just curious, because if they do not yet have a record of ALL of HG's texts and calls, it's possible she was texting somebody else, too.
I believe the investigator (not Chief Longo but I can't recall his name) indicated at today's briefing that CPD was still working with phone companies to get all of Hannah's phone information - this was in response to a reporter trying to pin down whether her last text was at 1:06 or 1:20.
 
let's talk about the email HG's dad read. what is its purpose aside from trying to keep hope alive? are they trying to say to the perp that they can still come clean? they can undo this or fix it somehow?
what else would be its purpose?
 
Exactly. He's a witness that did not come forward willingly, and who is now apparently fleeing.

Is anyone thinking OJ's flight?

No. Because the cases are in no way similar.
 
My theory is that LE released the description of the shaved head because they didn't want their suspect to shave his head. They knew early on they were looking for a dude with dreads...but thought it they released that he would change his appearance.

If I remember correctly, only AFTER law enforcement had visited JM's apartment, Longo told us WG had given them a description.

Then, Longo asked citizens to be on the lookout for a black male, 5'10"-5'11", 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight 'beer belly' and last wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

To me, that description was NOT what JM looked like (or what he was wearing) on the night Hannah Graham disappeared. That description was what JM looked like when he fled the apartment, while police were searching.

I still believe WG gave an accurate description of the person who was last seen on video with Hannah Graham, but the description WE heard (from Longo) described JM at the moment he fled the apartment (after he had shaved his head and, of course, changed his clothing).
 
Maybe they have evidence of her being in his car but not in his apartment. Just a guess.
 
If they were overtly tracking, why not use a helicopter to trail the POI? Slowly losing confidence in PD.

LE wasn't expecting him to take off from the police station I don't imagine. :waitasec:

And they can't have air support overhead a POI 24/7.

They can't / don't even do that for things like a known armed - and crazy - cop killer who is on the 10 Most Wanted list such as the guy they've surrounded in PA at the moment or when Dorner was on the run in CA.

At this point, CM isn't even named a suspect, they have not given any indication they think he is an armed madman just wanting to kill people. They aren't even 100% sure he's even done anything in this case. Even ignoring all the logistical issues and restrictions that would make 24/7 air support even over a perp (let alone only a POI) prohibitive, the cost would be astronomical!

But in terms of this instance in this case, it doesn't even seem completely clear if LE knew he was even coming to the police station, let alone thinking he would suddenly take off (from the station - or then when units were behind him).

If they didn't have air support up at that moment there would be the lag time of getting them up (meaning preflight checks and all they need to do before launching) once they realized he was taking off, and that just can't always happen quickly enough depending on what a potential POI or suspect or something does, as much as it'd be great if they could! And that's assuming they had a copter available and crew with flight time available, since there are restrictions on both of those also.

Even if they had air support up when it happened, depending on where that was in relation to where JM took off, it still could have been too late if LE had already felt they needed to call it off and had lost sight of him.

Since it seems unlikely it was his noticeable orange car (since we've not heard that's been returned) and don't know what vehicle he and the other person were in, something far less distinct is harder to pick out if there's a lag time for air support getting on scene in relation to the last known location of the vehicle. It'd also be much easier to 'get lost' in other traffic if the car was nondestinct. And unless they had (and were using FLIR - I'm not sure if they have/use that) picking up heat to at least tell which cars had been running longer (or more recently if parked or stopped somewhere) that could also add to the challenges.

Knowing how LE air support works in an even larger city with substantial, scheduled, as well as multiple agency air support (and of course emergent air support) and how things work (plus the federal resources), I can't knock Charlottesville in this particular instance on this point.
 
I always felt the same way, Otto, and believed I would always tell what I know without a lawyer. Then, I found this on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc (a law professor lectures a class on why you should never talk to the police). Interesting.




What's he protecting himself from? He's a witness who was seen late at night with a woman who has since been reported missing?

What is he afraid of? Is he afraid of being the hero that tells police exactly where they need to search next in order to find her? Why would he be afraid of that?
 
I am finding it hard to believe that we have not seen a bar patron or bartender on TV yet looking for their 15 minutes of fame.
 
I'm going to re-open the thread. Before you comment again, read and thank this post.


  • This discussion is not the place to debate racial issues. If that is your intent, please move on.
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  • Opinions and theories are welcome as long as they are based in FACT, i.e., LE statements and MSM.
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Thanks to all for your participation and interest in bringing Hannah home to her family.

Peace!


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You very well could be onto something here. Wonder if WG can be shown to know JM? If so, it is even harder to see how he would screw up the description....unless he was trying to throw LE off of the trail.

Edit: Meant as a reply to post #422

Yes, an alibi for both of them.
 
I am finding it hard to believe that we have not seen a bar patron or bartender on TV yet looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

I too am curious about the bartender. Interesting that they did not come forward, that we know of. I might speculate that this person, if they later became aware that they served HG, was not terribly eager to admit to having served a missing 18 year old.
 
Hi, first post.

I've seen some speculation on why LE would give false descriptions and details.

I just wanted to point out that this might be useful in filtering out tips that are bogus. They were probably getting so many of them.

Sorry if someone else has mentioned that already.
 
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