AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[SeattleStew]

New York Times article today: Mystery In A Small Town Mystery in a Small Town: A Quiet Couple Are Shot Dead, Their Daughter Missing

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I think it is just the perception of meth users. The theory that meth users are all bizarre. When in fact, there are many housewives who use meth for energy and weight control. There are many people who some would descibe as having normal lives who use meth.
As a clinician, I generally find them more dangerous to themself than others. During a psychotic event, I wouldn't imagine them being able to formulate their thoughts to participate in the critical thinking skills involved in breaking into a home , killing people, steal a teenager and leave. JMO. Now, what I can believe is robbing a home for money and property to fence.

Are you talking about prescribed medication controlled by the FDA?
ETA or the illegal meth made of battery acid etc? Theres a huge difference.

 

[carmenugt]

The Closs's IMO, are about as squeaky clean as I have seen. There is just nothing bad coming out about them. Nada, nothing. Usually there is some sort of high risk behavior seen. I'm just not seeing it here.

That said. Because of the meth problem in the area, I can see this being a drug fueled crime.

I'm still not committed to any theory. But I feel confident in saying that this family didn't knowingly have a hand in their own demise.

I have a skewed view of reality. I come from a family of social workers with a primary focus on Child Protective services and the mentally ill. I am a clinician. So what I can say is by my experience, you never know what goes on in "nice people homes. "
I am not even pointing a finger at the Closs's.
We know very little about the interpersonal dynamics of this family and their relationships outside of the house.
We know very little about the evidence in this crime.

This crime is very organized and strategic.They came prepared to shoot someone at the front door. The use of the front door is important. It speaks toward familiarity of those inside. But why this family?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I have a skewed view of reality. I come from a family of social workers with a primary focus on Child Protective services and the mentally ill. I am a clinician. So what I can say is by my experience, you never know what goes on in "nice people homes. "
I am not even pointing a finger at the Closs's.
We know very little about the interpersonal dynamics of this family and their relationships outside of the house.
We know very little about the evidence in this crime.

This crime is very organized and strategic. But why?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you believe this crime is organized and strategic . Apart from the fact that the suspect(s) brought a gun.

 

[carmenugt]

Are you talking about prescribed medication controlled by the FDA?
ETA or the illegal meth made of battery acid etc? Theres a huge difference.

Illegal meth use is not limited to those who you may think. It is more pervasive than you think. Battery acid is not always used. You can use something as available as lantern fluid , drano, antifreeze......

 

[MsBetsy]

Random thoughts following the current discussion: Are meth heads usually this good at covering their tracks?

It depends. Even more importantly, LE are very good at following their tracks and have probably already explored this angle extensively. Same goes for any RSO's in the area. Jmo

 

[carmenugt]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you believe this crime is organized and strategic . Apart from the fact that the suspect(s) brought a gun.

The use of the front door is key. No one breaks in through the front door. Unless, you know the people inside. IMO . I believe that LE said they knew what they were coming to take in the first or second press conference. They did not show up at this house randomly. We don't even know how long they were there. The neighbors did not come home until 1130pm. They heard to successive gunshots. We don't know where the bodies were located in the house. So were those two for two parents? I am leaning toward them being in the house longer than we think or mom and dad both came to the door. Who knows. We don't even know if they knew the family or how. We really don't know anything.

 

[photographer4]

Time to release the 9-1-1 call. Dont let this case get any colder.

Sherrif recently stated the call is confusing and there is nothing on it that helps the case. I'd actually rather they release the footage they have (or stills) of the vehicles of interest so we can see where they were seen, and at what time. I'd like to know as well overall what made the 14 mile stretch a crime scene.

 

[MsBetsy]

Time to release the 9-1-1 call. Dont let this case get any colder.

They made made it pretty clear there is not much helpful information there, aside from it helping to determine that Jayme was present during the murder. I think if there was a clear, distinctive sound of what they believe is the killers voice, they would release it. They have already used the best technology and still say it is not helpful. Imo

 

[SuziQ]

People who commit random violent crimes often get away with it because there is nothing to connect them to the victim. It isn't really a matter of being good at covering their tracks...it's more a matter of the tracks leading nowhere. JMO

This is what I fear in this case.

 

[Nemellotus]

Yes, it does seem that you wouldn’t enter through the front door if you were robbing the home at night. It does seem whoever it was, they came through the front door with a mission. All in the way we’re shot. They took what they wanted and with high speed, left quickly.

 

[gipsypup]

Has LE ruled out perp/s being at the house for possibly hours before the 911 call? I know this was discussed earlier but may have missed any change? I haven't seen anything factual either way.

I was thinking the same thing. A lot of this case is still unknown to us.
Was James definitely coming home from work that evening? Could he have stopped off somewhere before going home to watch a game or something and then was followed? Or could James have come home and was surprised or angry about individuals that were already there- possibly "friends" of Jayme or Denise that James did not approve of and he tried to throw them out and it escalated? Was it only the Associated Press that mentioned that James was working or has LE officially stated that James worked late that night and went straight home?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it is just the perception of meth users. The theory that meth users are all bizarre. When in fact, there are many housewives who use meth for energy and weight control. There are many people who some would descibe as having normal lives who use meth.
As a clinician, I generally find them more dangerous to themself than others. During a psychotic event, I wouldn't imagine them being able to formulate their thoughts to participate in the critical thinking skills involved in breaking into a home , killing people, steal a teenager and leave. JMO. Now, what I can believe is robbing a home for money and property to fence.

Respectfully meth heads are very capable of doing the most heinous sadistic crimes imaginable.

It is not a mere perspection. Unfortunately it is a horrifying stark reality for many of their victims and the grieving family members left behind to deal with the aftermath.

Goggle is filled with links concerning what countless meth heads have done and were capable of doing. And what they continue to do against many victims.

Who in their right mind would use meth for energy? I havent ever heard that nor do I understand why they would do such a thing?

Why would anyone want to put something so harmful in their body for recreational purposes such as an energy boost?

I have seen photos where 20 year olds look 60 in no time at all with decaying or completely missing teeth and hair once thick and full looks like it's been fried and now stringy and thin? And their skin is like an aging prune.

Jmo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The use of the front door is key. No one breaks in through the front door. Unless you know the people inside. IMO . I believe that LE said they knew what they were coming to take in the first or second press conference. They did not show up at this house randomly. We don't even know how long they were there. The neighbors did not come home until 1130pm. They heard to successive gunshots. We don't know where the bodies were located in the house. So were those two for two parents? I am leaning toward them being in the house longer than we think or mom and dad both came to the door. Who knows. We don't even know if they knew the family or how. We really don't know anything.

RBBM

Absolutely NOT true. I could site case after case after case of random home invasions where the front door was kicked in, the owners were home, and the owners did not know the suspects.

 

[kkdj]

Yes, it does seem that you wouldn’t enter through the front door if you were robbing the home at night. It does seem whoever it was, they came through the front door with a mission. All in the way we’re shot. They took what they wanted and with high speed, left quickly.

They weren't trying to sneak in imo. They came with a mission and confrontation.

 

[BeeGirl]

Serious question: how can we each do our part to help keep this case alive?

I think all the signs are present that it's going cold and it frustrates and upsets me.

 

[MsBetsy]

Agree with this. Holly Bobo was abducted because of meth not necessarily for meth. Drug addled creeps plotted to kidnap and rape her. Their plan went off without a hitch. If Holly's brother or someone else had intervened would it have turned violent like at the Closs house? Don't know, but Holly's case in my opinion matches the closest with this case(at least with the scant info we have right now). It has from day one.

I don't see many similarities. She was not an adolescent. The perp in Hollies case was seen leading her into the woods. He did not murder anyone before he abducted her. There was no car description. She was sexually assaulted and then murdered. We don't have any indication in this case if that is what happened. In my opinion we have even less to go on. Jmo

 

[photographer4]

The use of the front door is key. No one breaks in through the front door. Unless, you know the people inside. IMO . I believe that LE said they knew what they were coming to take in the first or second press conference. They did not show up at this house randomly. We don't even know how long they were there. The neighbors did not come home until 1130pm. They heard to successive gunshots. We don't know where the bodies were located in the house. So were those two for two parents? I am leaning toward them being in the house longer than we think or mom and dad both came to the door. Who knows. We don't even know if they knew the family or how. We really don't know anything.

I was just sitting here considering that maybe this went on longer than we think. If the neighbours weren't home, and only heard two shots, then when were the other "multiple rounds spent" (per call log transcript)? That just makes no sense. Police also said they didn't know how long mom and ad had been dead for. It makes me think that this began way earlier than we think it did and no one knows because no one heard the other shots ring out for whatever reason (or other shots being heard hasn't been reported on in MSM). Would it make sense that someone was there longer and had kicked in the door? Dad goes in and sees crime in progress, so he is shot in a way that makes it appear he had answered the door, when infant, he had not?

 

[Ari_]

They weren't trying to sneak in imo. They came with a mission and confrontation.

This. They wouldn't care what door they came in when they knew they would shoot whoever was in there way.

 

[Randazzo]

Sherrif recently stated the call is confusing and there is nothing on it that helps the case.

This is the part that doesn't make any sense. The 911 call has no intelligible speech (except maybe "help") and yet something on it led LE to believe Jayme was there when the call was made. Someone help me understand that.