Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[steeltowngirl]

I wonder what these conflicts were between Carter and the FBI. This seems unusual (and idiotic) to me.

The statement was from the FM. I haven’t seen the actual depositions. Carter thanked the FBI for their partnership at the time of the arrest and said his team relied heavily on the FBI. The FBI featured the case on their own website in 2022.

For me, I take the FM statement with a grain of salt.
I will accept Carter’s words and the FBI’s words over the FM statements any day of the week.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

The statement was from the FM. I haven’t seen the actual depositions. Carter thanked the FBI for their partnership at the time of the arrest and said his team relied heavily on the FBI. The FBI featured the case on their own website in 2022.

For me, I take the FM statement with a grain of salt.
I will accept Carter’s words and the FBI’s words over the FM statements any day of the week.

jmo

Maybe Carter didn't know OR maybe they just kicked out individual FBI but not the FBI as a whole.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We’ve talked a lot about how tips and evidence were stored during a massive investigation into a double homicide in a small town. Digging into the past and the number of moves that were made. A few…

February 23, 2017
The Delphi Murder Tip Line was routed to the FBI's Major Case Contract Center in Washington, D.C because of the sheer number of calls they were receiving. The tip line number is 1-844-459-5786
DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

February 25, 2017
Investigators moved to a larger headquarters. ISP said the move was made to accommodate the city of Delphi, who has to use their building to conduct everyday business.

January 8, 2018
Indiana State Police say the base of operations for the Delphi investigation will move back to its original location at City Hall.

https://www.wrtv.com/delphi-timeline-the-search-for-libby-abbys-killer.

September 23, 2021
Delphi murders investigation center moving
13News confirmed with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby that the center will move to North Ninth Street.

Delphi murders investigation center moving

13News confirmed with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby that the center will move to North Ninth Street.

www.wthr.com

ed:gr​

 

[steeltowngirl]

Maybe Carter didn't know OR maybe they just kicked out individual FBI but not the FBI as a whole.

Could be. I can see why people perceive conflict between Carter and the FBI. MS covered the lost Marathon Gas tape, and we all recall how visibly upset Carter was at the 2019 PC. Related? IDK

The Delphi Murders: The FBI and the Lost Tape

In this episode, we will discuss the FBI's role in the Delphi investigation, a key mistake made by FBI personnel, and context around the controversial Indianapolis division of the FBI. This episode takes a break from our focus on restaurant homicides, and is part of our intermittent series of...

art19.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

We’ve talked a lot about how tips and evidence was stored during a massive investigation into a double homicide in a small town. Digging into the past and the number of moves that were made. A few…

February 23, 2017
The Delphi Murder Tip Line was routed to the FBI's Major Case Contract Center in Washington, D.C because of the sheer number of calls they were receiving. The tip line number is 1-844-459-5786
DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

February 25, 2017
Investigators moved to a larger headquarters. ISP said the move was made to accommodate the city of Delphi, who has to use their building to conduct everyday business.

January 8, 2018
Indiana State Police say the base of operations for the Delphi investigation will move back to its original location at City Hall.

https://www.wrtv.com/delphi-timeline-the-search-for-libby-abbys-killer.

September 23, 2021
Delphi murders investigation center moving
13News confirmed with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby that the center will move to North Ninth Street.

Delphi murders investigation center moving

13News confirmed with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby that the center will move to North Ninth Street.

www.wthr.com

​

From the last part of your post:

13News confirmed with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby that the center will move to North Ninth Street.

I have always wondered why they couldn't have taken RA out there until he was represented by an attorney.
It appears to be a very secure location. They could have taken him there and no one would have been the wiser. They could have asked for extra security for a few days if that was the worry.

 

[steeltowngirl]

From the last part of your post:

I have always wondered why they couldn't have taken RA out there until he was represented by an attorney.
It appears to be a very secure location. They could have taken him there and no one would have been the wiser. They could have asked for extra security for a few days if that was the worry.

I wish they had too. If he was at risk, even to a state hospital. There were already too many missteps with the case, and sending and keeping him in prison has only added to the chaos.

jmo

 

[Jade]

It appears NM does have his own skeletons. Shameful.

No, that post accusing NM is incorrect.

NM has not made any statement regarding the recently released confessions of RA bragging he shot the girls in the back.

Post #740 is reply to a post with this link and quoted NM’s statement about the confession to the wife not the recently released confessions.

Indiana man confessed to murders of teenage girls in phone call with his wife, documents say

Richard Matthew Allen allegedly told his wife, Kathy Allen, in an April 3 phone call that he killed Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14.

www.kktv.com

If LE or NM has made msm comment on the recently revealed alleged confessions please link!




all imo

 

[mrjitty]

I guess the clinical evidence will be critical to this motion

The defence at p.9 seems to indulge in a circular reasoning where the "disorganised, delusional, paranoid and highly dysfunctional behaviour" are both the result of and the evidence of the Psychosis. There is also a fairly wild allegation about a medical experiment. One wonders how they would establish that.

It will be interesting if the evidence for Psychosis in the "TRC Hearing" report (p.2) holds up. Remember at the Safekeeping hearing the D didn't actually offer any evidence for psychosis. And the behaviours were cited as reasons to justify isolation. You can see that why a man eating his own poohs and confessing to be a child killer won't be in general circulation - but of course that logic could also get kafka-esque.

One other thing I was wondering about. If there is evidence of a psychosis (for whatever reason) does this mean the confessions would be excluded as unsafe? or must it also be shown they were obtained via unconstitutional means?

i.e is this grounds for exclusion, or does the jury assess the weight to give confessions in the face of the clinical evidence?

One random musing - if this stuff is all suppressed and he gets off, then it is widely publicised he confessed to all and sundry it might not go down well with Joe public.

02c

 

[steeltowngirl]

I guess the clinical evidence will be critical to this motion

The defence at p9 seems to indulge in a circular reasoning where the "disorganised, delusional, paranoid and highly dysfunctional behaviour" are both the result of and the evidence of the Psychosis. There is also a fairly wild allegation about a medical experiment.

It will be interesting if the evidence for Psychosis in the "TRC Hearing" holds up. (Remember at the Safekeeping hearing they didn't actually offer any evidence for psychosis).

One other thing I was wondering about. If there is evidence of a psychosis (for whatever reason) does this mean the confessions would be excluded as unsafe? or must it also be shown they were obtained via unconstitutional means?

i.e is this grounds for exclusion, or does the jury assess the weight to give confessions in the face of the clinical evidence?

I’m not an attorney of course, so I will link an article that appears to be on topic. Help me learn!

Colorado v. Connelly, 479 U.S. 157

Discusses whether a paranoid schizophrenic individual acting in response to "command hallucinations" is competent to waive Miranda rights and his confession is voluntary and admissible.

www.apa.org

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is the D motion to conduct an interview with Westville inmate JLJ. It's been approved.
IMO One doesn't have to make wild guesses as to how the molestation issue came up and why the D needs to interview this guy. He specifically got my attention because his case is out of Elkhart County.
I'm really curious how he came in contact with RA. I'll be watching his case closely for an early release.

Look here: Indiana Incarcerated Database Search 271835
Then here: Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase 20D03-2003-F4-000017
Be sure to look at this one for the details: 20D01-2003-MC-000995 (PCA)

2024 4/11 Motion for Leave.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[mrjitty]

I’m not an attorney of course, so I will link an article that appears to be on topic. Help me learn!

Colorado v. Connelly, 479 U.S. 157

Discusses whether a paranoid schizophrenic individual acting in response to "command hallucinations" is competent to waive Miranda rights and his confession is voluntary and admissible.

www.apa.org

Thanks! That deals with police interrogations but is perhaps relevant by analogy. It seems to be the case that the confession isn't unconstitutional simply because the defendant has delusions.

Although there is no constitutional barrier to the admission of uncoerced confessions from psychotic and hallucinatory defendants, the State, based on its own rules of evidence, would have the discretion to refuse to admit those confessions as unreliable.

Having dealt with someone who had a psychosis, it is not the case that everything they said/did was delusional. Indeed at times they were much more forthcoming than perhaps was wise. But they did also believe things that were obviously not true. I suspect you can't just say as a rule, the confessions must be untrue. But i guess you could say they are unsafe, depending on the circumstances?

Also - I guess I doubt Judge Gull is going to find the confessions were coerced, given her previous findings on safekeeping.

 

[TL4S]

This is the D motion to conduct an interview with Westville inmate JLJ. It's been approved.
IMO One doesn't have to make wild guesses as to how the molestation issue came up and why the D needs to interview this guy. He specifically got my attention because his case is out of Elkhart County.
I'm really curious how he came in contact with RA. I'll be watching his case closely for an early release.

Look here: Indiana Incarcerated Database Search 271835
Then here: Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase 20D03-2003-F4-000017
Be sure to look at this one for the details: 20D01-2003-MC-000995 (PCA)

2024 4/11 Motion for Leave.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

The same prison culture that allows their guards to wear patches which are often associated with white supremacy, also gives a pretrial detainee a "companion" who is a child predator. It's uncomfortable optics, imo.

 

[layer]

It seems to be the case that the confession isn't unconstitutional simply because the defendant has delusions.

Wouldn't abhorrent conditions that lead to psychosis and delusional confessions be the basis for declaring them as unconstitutional?

 

[vinayd]

This is the D motion to conduct an interview with Westville inmate JLJ. It's been approved.
IMO One doesn't have to make wild guesses as to how the molestation issue came up and why the D needs to interview this guy. He specifically got my attention because his case is out of Elkhart County.
I'm really curious how he came in contact with RA. I'll be watching his case closely for an early release.

Look here: Indiana Incarcerated Database Search 271835
Then here: Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase 20D03-2003-F4-000017
Be sure to look at this one for the details: 20D01-2003-MC-000995 (PCA)

2024 4/11 Motion for Leave.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

Interesting looks like this man violated his 14 year old step daughter. I’m sure he did chat RA up and I’m sure RA was comfy telling him “what he’s in for”. This is so common from county jail to prison . No state actors. Just bad guys bragging and shooting the breeze.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The same prison culture that allows their guards to wear patches which are often associated with white supremacy, also gives a pretrial detainee a "companion" who is a child predator. It's uncomfortable optics, imo.

I'm also curious about what's behind the other two.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Interesting looks like this man violated his 14 year old step daughter. I’m sure he did chat RA up and I’m sure RA was comfy telling him “what he’s in for”. This is so common from county jail to prison . No state actors. Just bad guys bragging and shooting the breeze.

We'll see. I'm leaning toward jailhouse snitch.

 

[vinayd]

We'll see. I'm leaning toward jailhouse snitch.

Could be…. And snitches get McDonald’s on their way to meet lawyers for snitching lol

Is the D trying to figure out who “hired” the snitch? This only adds more to the conspiracy fuel. Or is the D trying to get a run down of all he knows so they can prep for trial?

 

[TTF14]

The same prison culture that allows their guards to wear patches which are often associated with white supremacy, also gives a pretrial detainee a "companion" who is a child predator. It's uncomfortable optics, imo.

Was he one of the companions?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Could be…. And snitches get McDonald’s on their way to meet lawyers for snitching lol

Is the D trying to figure out who “hired” the snitch? This only adds more to the conspiracy fuel. Or is the D trying to get a run down of all he knows so they can prep for trial?

They sometimes get ditches, too; so I've heard.

I guess I thought the use of snitches was common knowledge. No conspiracy needed.

 

[TL4S]

Was he one of the companions?

Hmm...I guess maybe we don't know yet.