Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[Yemelyan]

The jacket or coat believed to have been worn by BG in 2017 what material would it have been made out of - does anyone know?

That particular type of coat or jacket, of course.

JAQ - Just asking a Question.

Many of the Carhartt jackets are made of a cotton canvas material that's called "cotton duck."

Edit to say - not sure if that's what BG is wearing.

 

[mrjitty]

the testimony about the search of RAs house makes me wonder if the knife play was the fantasy. Something about control and sadism. and a fixation with the bridge.

MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

IIRC, didn't police track down shoes purchased by Jason Young (who was accused of murdering his wife, Michelle)?

I would think that police would be able to track down the purchase of his jacket and of a subsequent purchase if he bought another one that looked like it. To me, if he replaced the jacket, that would be most suspicious.

JMO.

Maybe not if the purchase was made with cash.

I kept a ski jacket for years as never needed a new one and could never find one quite like it.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[heartandsoul]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

DNA is good but not a gold standard, is often circumstantial in itself and is certainly not the only way to get a fair and just conviction.

Sometimes the only evidence that exists is circumstantial, but when you have a significant amount adding up, it’s usually a good idea to follow occams razor.

 

[Warwick7]

Lots of talk about RA jacket. If I'm correct it was a (CARHARTT JACKET),And if you are familiar with this brand and have ever washed it in your home washing machine then you know it can take a toll on your washer. Also if the jacket had blood on it, it would stain it. Its very hard to get stains out of that material, almost like a heavy canvas. No mention of blood on shoes. And if he had blood on him it most surely would have transferred to areas in his car. So much time has gone by. who knows.
I'm still scratching my head that they didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails.

Is it recorded that they "didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails."??
I haven't read that anywhere.

 

[tlcya]

Also - given the crime scene was said to be quite bloody - was there no blood evidence on it from the kids or the killer? Nothing to connect that bullet to the crime itself? If not, theoretically, could it not have been there before the kids ever were? Even if it was not showing signs of having been out too long - how long would it take to show signs of being in the ground at all?

Allen told investigators he didn’t know how the bullet was present at the site, that he is unfamiliar with the location and he has never loaned his gun to anyone.
https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/questions-remain-after-release-of-delphi-murder-docs/

No, not according to RA, it could not have. He never lent the gun to anyone and claimed not to even be familiar with the crime scene aera (ie. I and my gun have never been there)

 

[tlcya]

Holeman recounted telling Allen about how he shouldn’t worry about any damage done to his home during the search because Allen could fill out a form and have it all repaired.

Holeman claims Allen responded by saying, “Why bother, it’s all over.” Holeman claimed Allen repeated this line when later asked if he wanted to be taken to see his wife. It should be noted that Richard Allen was already told prior to the search of his home that he was a suspect in the girls’ murders.
https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...17-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[photographer4]

The evidence presented may be enough for the jury.
They will make the decision.

jmo

I'm sure they'll decide in whatever way makes the most sense to them. I do not envy them having to sit through the long days, isolated from loved ones, without their electronics and being supervised by people, only allowed to watch what JG approves in terms of television / films... not an enviable position at all imo.

 

[photographer4]

Any news about the missing juror?

jmo

I beg your pardon?

 

[steeltowngirl]

If your standard is DNA, then does that mean you’re fine with the killer getting away with this?

Real life is not like CSI. Not every scene involves recovered DNA. How do you think cases were solved a few decades ago?

This man apparently didn’t cut himself. He apparently did not commit an overt sex act.

How does that make a prosecution a mess?

BAM!!

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm sure they'll decide in whatever way makes the most sense to them. I do not envy them having to sit through the long days, isolated from loved ones, without their electronics and being supervised by people, only allowed to watch what JG approves in terms of television / films... not an enviable position at all imo.

It is a civic duty, which some (many? most?) jurors consider an honor to do, even if inconvenient.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I beg your pardon?

Scroll up. It's been discussed on the thread.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

Allen told investigators he didn’t know how the bullet was present at the site, that he is unfamiliar with the location and he has never loaned his gun to anyone.
https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/questions-remain-after-release-of-delphi-murder-docs/

No, not according to RA, it could not have. He never lent the gun to anyone and claimed not to even be familiar with the crime scene aera (ie. I and my gun have never been there)

I meant the bullet - the state thinks it is his - I don't share their opinion (yet). I want to understand whether a random bullet could have been at the scene vs one tied (BARD) to his gun. Moo.

 

[TristanP]

There was no DNA evidence of Letecia brought up in Gannon's trial. No electronic data tying her to murder either, just bizarre Google searches.

She did it though and was found guilty. So you prefer those criminals who are "good" and don't leave DNA and leave their phone at home to just walk free? Even though there is a pile of evidence pointing directly toward them?

That’s hardly an even comparison. LS was G’s stepmom, they were known to be together when he supposedly disappeared, there was a large quantity of his blood found in their home.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

That’s hardly an even comparison. LS was G’s stepmom, they were known to be together when he supposedly disappeared, there was a large quantity of his blood found in their home.

That's all circumstantial.

 

[Inthedetails]

dbm. going on a tangent

 

[MassGuy]

During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017 and four others found in the Wabash River in 2022. Allen’s gun was the first to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby.

After the state finished its questioning of Oberg, the defense cross-examined her and attempted to hammer in on the possibility of inconclusiveness in her results or errors in the testing, citing how her findings only needed to reach “sufficient agreement.”

Oberg stood by her findings and stated her field only has an error rate of 2-2.5%. She said that over her 17-year career and 100+ criminal trials, her findings have never been found in error or reversed.

But Rozzi pushed on the fact that Oberg’s conclusion was based on a test fired round, not a test ejected round like the one found at the crime scene. Oberg tied the crime scene cartridge to Allen’s gun specifically through three ejection marks.

Oberg stated an “ejector mark is an ejector mark whether its fired or cycled.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

 

[photographer4]

Scroll up. It's been discussed on the thread.

jmo

For ease of access, can you pls provide a link? I'm not seeing it...Ty

 

[ClearAhead]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

You ignored the several pieces of circumstantial evidence the jury does have. DNA and electronics alone to do make for a certain conviction.

 

[m00c0w]

I meant the bullet - the state thinks it is his - I don't share their opinion (yet). I want to understand whether a random bullet could have been at the scene vs one tied (BARD) to his gun. Moo.

A random bullet could have been at the scene. A non-weathered, random bullet that matches a brand found at his house, with ejector and extractor markings consistent with his gun?

That’s not within my definition of “reasonable”.

JMO