Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[steeltowngirl]

What if RA really IS the victim of circumstances? The odds REALLY would have had to be against him on that day. Would it even be possible?

Just really seems impossible that someone with the exact same timeline and outfit would be in the video the girls took where they are clearly terrified and being ordered down the hill.

JMO

Highly improbable. For him to be a mere victim of circumstances, the number of coincidences that would had to have happened is sizeable. Then we must discount his own confessions. 61+ of them.

@m00c0w posted an excellent list upthread. We’d have to believe these are all coincidences.

- RA put himself at the location, at times that would allow him to commit the murders.
- RA has no alibi for the time of the murders.
- Video from the HH corroborated his timeline.
- RA's build is consistent with the build of BG in the video.
- Eyewitness testimony (the girls) corroborates RA's timeline, and individuals that he states he saw state they saw only one man.
- At the time RA would have been at the MHB, BB saw a man on the MHB. This is the only man she saw.
- The girls and BB both confirm the man they saw was the man in LG's video.
- RA told police that he was on his phone that day, looking at stock tickers. TL testified that there is no evidence he had his phone with him that day.
- An un-weathered, unfired cartridge was found between the bodies of the girls. This round was found to have at least been cycled through a P226, if not RA's specific P226.

jmo

 

[Warwick7]

"The lieutenant asked Allen about a few comments he made during the search, and Allen retaliated, saying “his life was already ruined because all of his friends and community ‘thought he did it.’”

Well that tells us ALOT!

 

[Warwick7]

"Holeman said Allen did eventually confirm he was on the High Bridge on Feb. 13, 2017."

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There would be no reason for him to lie about this, so I think it’s true. He may fish in locations where there’s the possibility of bears or something.

My Granddaddy always carried a holstered handgun when he went fishing. It was for snakes and snapping turtles.
Often he would take all us grand babies fishing to our “secret fishing hole”. Every now and then he would say “y’all stay here”, he’d step away for about 30 seconds, and we’d hear “Blam!”. It took us a few years to figure out he was shooting snakes and didn’t want to spoil our idyllic fun.
We also found out why he always fished in the big pond before we walked down to the fishing hole. He was catching fish to secretly put on our lines so we always caught fish at the secret fishing hole!
Granddaddy was a treasure.
****Thank you for joining me on this nostalgic trip. You may all return to regular programming****

 

[MassGuy]

I am extremely confident in Allen's guilt, but at this stage, I am not confident in the prosecution's ability to convict him.

I do not like the fact that the testing on the round was not also sent to an outside lab (FBI) for confirmation.

I do not like that it appears the FBI was not utilized more. It feels like ISP may have been playing politics. I would like to hear from an FBI CAST expert for instance, but we've only heard from an ISP expert in that regard.

I was not impressed by the pathologist. I feel like he's past his prime, and was not as effective on the stand as I hoped for (his changing take on what made those wounds). This also could have come down to questioning by the prosecution, but I was not a fan.

I do not like witnesses who say something on the stand that is extremely damaging to the defendant, and we later learn more context that makes those remarks less incriminating, or even potentially not incriminating.

I think Sheriff Liggett's testimony was terrible, and that he came across as incompetent.

I do not like that interview we heard about today. I think it was much too combative, and that caused Allen not to share information that he otherwise might have.

I do not like this lost video stuff. No, I don't believe it was intentional, but it's just sloppy.

It all comes down to how convinced the jury is in regards to what the prosecution has sold them so far. If they believe the bullet evidence, the timeline, the witness statements (especially the one corroborated by Allen), then they are in decent shape. They may not be though, and that could be a problem.

In that case there better be more, or the confessions better be as effective as the prosecution has characterized them as, or the defense will be able to inflict a lot of damage when they get the ball.

 

[shonyakay]

Good point, but wouldn't you have more than one round in? There could be more than one coyote or more than one rattlesnake.
So what's the point in him saying he only carried one round, that absolutely makes no sense.

Just thought of this.

If it's true that RA only carried one round in his gun, I wonder if he somehow accidently ejected the bullet while he was trying to control the girls' with the gun.

If he lost that bullet on the ground and couldn't find it and one of the girls' tried to escape in the process this may be why he had to resort to using the box cutter.

Side note. I am not familiar with guns so maybe someone who is can answer my question. Can you accidently eject a bullet?

 

[Warwick1991]

Good point, but wouldn't you have more than one round in? There could be more than one coyote or more than one rattlesnake.
So what's the point in him saying he only carried one round, that absolutely makes no sense.

When people carry a semiautomatic pistol, they often have one round in the chamber, which means the pistol can be fired immediately or upon releasing a safety in many pistol models. In such pistols, there is also a removable magazine, the sheet metal device that holds the cartridges in a pistol, often essential to operation. However, the magazine in the pistol holds many more cartridges, so that if the round in the chamber is fired, the others in the magazine will cycle into the chamber and can be fired when the trigger is pulled.

What Allen was saying, is that like many who carry a pistol, he had the first cartridge in a ready-to-fire position, but the rest of the cartridges in the magazine would also be capable of being fired.

 

[MassGuy]

Just thought of this.

If it's true that RA only carried one round in his gun, I wonder if he somehow accidently ejected the bullet while he was trying to control the girls' with the gun.

If he lost that bullet on the ground and couldn't find it and one of the girls' tried to escape in the process this may be why he had to resort to using the box cutter.

Side note. I am not familiar with guns so maybe someone who is can answer my question. Can you accidently eject a bullet?

The only way to eject one is by racking the slide when you already have one in the chamber.

If you have an unloaded firearm and insert a magazine into the gun. Nothing will happen when you pull the trigger.

When you rack the slide though, that takes a round from the magazine and chambers it.

So Allen either thought that the chamber was empty and just wanted to make a scary sound, or he knew he had one in the chamber, wanted to make a scary sound, and intended to pick the round up when it was ejected.

 

[ClearAhead]

Good point, but wouldn't you have more than one round in? There could be more than one coyote or more than one rattlesnake.
So what's the point in him saying he only carried one round, that absolutely makes no sense.

Exactly! One round makes no sense if he indeed carried it for protection from predatory animals. One shot but what if he missed?

 

[Arkay]

Not sure about the fish, but mushrooms can be deadly.

Right, and maybe the fish were piranhas.

RA needs an exculpatory witness and he just doesn’t have one, nor does he have an alibi.

It still remains that he was there and no other man was spotted on the bridge at the relevant time.

It still remains that BG looks IMO very similar to RA.

It still remains that video of BG at the least rules out that a female did this, or a person of color, or someone dressed very differently from RA’s self-description of his clothing that day.


Brick by brick.

IMO

 

[m00c0w]

I am extremely confident in Allen's guilt, but at this stage, I am not confident in the prosecution's ability to convict him.

I do not like the fact that the testing on the round was not also sent to an outside lab (FBI) for confirmation.

I do not like that it appears the FBI was not utilized more. It feels like ISP may have been playing politics. I would like to hear from an FBI CAST expert for instance, but we've only heard from an ISP expert in that regard.

I was not impressed by the pathologist. I feel like he's past his prime, and was not as effective on the stand as I hoped for (his changing take on what made those wounds). This also could have come down to questioning by the prosecution, but I was not a fan.

I do not like witnesses who say something on the stand that is extremely damaging to the defendant, and we later learn more context that makes those remarks less incriminating, or even potentially not incriminating.

I think Sheriff Liggett's testimony was terrible, and that he came across as incompetent.

I do not like that interview we heard about today. I think it was much too combative, and that caused Allen not to share information that he otherwise might have.

I do not like this lost video stuff. No, I don't believe it was intentional, but it's just sloppy.

It all comes down to how convinced the jury is in regards to what the prosecution has sold them so far. If they believe the bullet evidence, the timeline, the witness statements (especially the one corroborated by Allen), then they are in decent shape. They may not be though, and that could be a problem.

In that case there better be more, or the confessions better be as effective as the prosecution has characterized them as, or the defense will be able to inflict a lot of damage when they get the ball.

As far as CAST, I'm pretty confident that will come early next week.

I also was not a fan of Holeman's testimony today, but it is important from a prosecution strategy that they get out in front of it so the defense can't use it as a "gotcha". I ultimately think the main point, in spite of how poorly he came across from the interview, was RA's insistence that he would not admit to something he didn't do. I think that will be rehashed again in a big way later on during the confession phase of the prosecution's side.

JMO

Edit: Said Liggett, meant Holeman

 

[MassGuy]

As far as CAST, I'm pretty confident that will come early next week.

I also was not a fan of Liggett's testimony today, but it is important from a prosecution strategy that they get out in front of it so the defense can't use it as a "gotcha". I ultimately think the main point, in spite of how poorly he came across from the interview, was RA's insistence that he would not admit to something he didn't do. I think that will be rehashed again in a big way later on during the confession phase of the prosecution's side.

JMO

That’s a really good point. It would add to the significance of his forthcoming confessions.

Have we heard anything about CAST, or specific FBI involvement here? Just in general from other filings or something.

 

[WildHuncher]

As far as CAST, I'm pretty confident that will come early next week.

I also was not a fan of Liggett's testimony today, but it is important from a prosecution strategy that they get out in front of it so the defense can't use it as a "gotcha". I ultimately think the main point, in spite of how poorly he came across from the interview, was RA's insistence that he would not admit to something he didn't do. I think that will be rehashed again in a big way later on during the confession phase of the prosecution's side.

JMO

BBM

Very good point.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Continuing the interview, Allen told Holeman that he had a side holster and carried his firearm with one round in the chamber. He continued to deny ever knowing Libby and Abby or knowing how his bullet got there.

This jibes with the condition of his gun when it was recovered during that search warrant.

It also introduces another possibility about why that round was at the crime scene, one that other people have suggested but I didn’t really like until now.

The sounds on the video are going to be open to interpretation, but several people in the courtroom believe they heard him rack his gun during that initial encounter. This may be when he ejected that round from his gun, realized it, and put it in his pocket. Perhaps the girls weren’t moving fast enough and he did that to intimidate them into picking up the pace.

So he racks the gun, picks up the round, places it into his pocket, and it’s ultimately deposited at the murder scene when he bends over or something.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

So if he always carried it with one round in the chamber, he wouldn't have racked the gun to scare the girls at the bridge or there would be an ejected bullet there. Unless he's lying about that. But didn't they find it in his house with one in the chamber also? So that fits.

I wonder if there is another unspent round by the bridge as well. If he did rack the gun then, thus ejecting the one already in the chamber to intimidate the girls while directing them down the hill. OR if he didn't actually rack the gun in the video.

I'm hoping the police really thoroughly searched the area around and under the bridge to look for another round there.

 

[BUF]

I am extremely confident in Allen's guilt, but at this stage, I am not confident in the prosecution's ability to convict him.

I do not like the fact that the testing on the round was not also sent to an outside lab (FBI) for confirmation.

I do not like that it appears the FBI was not utilized more. It feels like ISP may have been playing politics. I would like to hear from an FBI CAST expert for instance, but we've only heard from an ISP expert in that regard.

I was not impressed by the pathologist. I feel like he's past his prime, and was not as effective on the stand as I hoped for (his changing take on what made those wounds). This also could have come down to questioning by the prosecution, but I was not a fan.

I do not like witnesses who say something on the stand that is extremely damaging to the defendant, and we later learn more context that makes those remarks less incriminating, or even potentially not incriminating.

I think Sheriff Liggett's testimony was terrible, and that he came across as incompetent.

I do not like that interview we heard about today. I think it was much too combative, and that caused Allen not to share information that he otherwise might have.

I do not like this lost video stuff. No, I don't believe it was intentional, but it's just sloppy.

It all comes down to how convinced the jury is in regards to what the prosecution has sold them so far. If they believe the bullet evidence, the timeline, the witness statements (especially the one corroborated by Allen), then they are in decent shape. They may not be though, and that could be a problem.

In that case there better be more, or the confessions better be as effective as the prosecution has characterized them as, or the defense will be able to inflict a lot of damage when they get the ball.

I am hoping that they saved the best for last.

The prosecution has said they have 50 witnesses….what are we up to? It could be that they will be done with their case by the end of next week or shortly after.

 

[Bergmann]

Andrea Burkhart (approved source) certainly has strong opinions (IMO)

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[m00c0w]

That’s a really good point. It would add to the significance of his forthcoming confessions.

Have we heard anything about CAST, or specific FBI involvement here? Just in general from other filings or something.

We know from the state's motion in limine that there was CAST analysis performed; the individual listed in 9 was an FBI agent assigned to the CAST team.

That they didn't seek to exclude his testimony altogether leads me to believe they intend on using him at some point.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

So if he always carried it with one round in the chamber, he wouldn't have racked the gun to scare the girls at the bridge or there would be an ejected bullet there. Unless he's lying about that. But didn't they find it in his house with one in the chamber also? So that fits.

I wonder if there is another unspent round by the bridge as well. If he did rack the gun then, thus ejecting the one already in the chamber to intimidate the girls while directing them down the hill. OR if he didn't actually rack the gun in the video.

The idea that there are actually two unspent rounds did cross my mind.

I think it’s highly unlikely, but the chance of that being the case is not 0.

 

[TristanP]

Does anyone else find this comment a little strange? Why would you need your gun fishing?

It's not any more strange to me than people who take their gun everywhere they go, 24/7.

 

[MassGuy]

We know from the state's motion in limine that there was CAST analysis performed; the individual listed in 9 was an FBI agent assigned to the CAST team.

That they didn't seek to exclude his testimony altogether leads me to believe they intend on using him at some point.

JMO

Just looked up his background, I’d love to hear from him.