Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[justtrish]

Not sure why she or others on other platforms who claim to be deeply involved in the case are acting surprised by how the questioning went, as if this is only coming out now. We all had access to the transcript for that months ago and read it.

AB clutching over police lying during questioning when it has been established for quite a while now that it is a legal technique in Indiana feels absurd, especially since she would be more than aware of that as a lawyer.

Do I like how the interrogation was conducted? No. Does it fall within the laws and practices of Indiana? Yes.

100% exactly!

 

[Bergmann]

This person is an approved source, but when I see a tweet that says something about "Every shady police tactic".. I quit reading. The "shady" police tactics are allowed and labeling them as such is showing her bias. I get that not everyone agrees with some of the approved tactics used, but that doesn't make them shady and it doesn't make the person doing the interview shady. It is witnesses like this that make me wish we could watch it for ourselves. There is so much left unsaid about what took place over the entire testimony today and with the entire interview of RA.

I'm replying to your comment, but this isn't me saying you think police are shady.. just sharing my thoughts on this discussion about one person's tweets about what happened

I'd have to watch it to understand exactly why she thinks that what came out in court led her to that conclusion.

But I don't want YTers because they are largely all grifting off the case, and also because their broadcasts go on for far too damn long! In Andreas case I think that is because she is a detailed note-taker which is to be commended I guess whether you agree with her or not - this trial should be televised and transparent!

I don't think police are shady, I wait for the evidence to be presented and make my own mind up as to how convincing I find it. Same as RA, I make no presumptions.

 

[INfisherman]

For those who might be unfamiliar with semi automatic pistols & how they work, this might help in visualizing things a bit better. This video shows a gun being fired. When you see the upper portion of the gun move backwards, away from the exit point (direction bullet goes/direction of fire) that is the racking motion done by the shooter’s hand in order to chamber a round to which everyone keeps referring.

Also make note of the stacked bullets in the handle area. This is where the magazine is inserted/slammed which holds the ammo/rounds/bullets.

ETA: This is not necessarily an exact replica of RA’s gun, just an example of most any semI-automatic pistol.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

What would the consequences be? Is there a law that says they can't leave once they're sworn in? I'm genuinely asking - @AugustWest any help here pls? If a juror has had it with a trial for whatever reason - stress, trauma from whatever is presented etc etc... being sat in lousy chairs, unhappy with sequestration overall, is there some actual law that says they cannot simply walk out of court and refuse to go back? Any other lawyers happen to know? Ty in advance! NOT moo - actually asking!

I think this is a VERY good question!

I am in the midst of reporting daily for jury duty selection...
Have not been asked to attend... yet...

I am proud to do my American civic duties...
And see no reason at this time why I should need to be excused...

BUT... considering in THIS case...
the sequestration...
length of court case...
absence from family...
Content of murders...
Etc....

Could all put me in a place where I might NOT be as fit as I should be to be an effective juror...

Soooo... I DO think your question is valid and compelling!

All... JMO...

 

[MassGuy]

Not sure why she or others on other platforms who claim to be deeply involved in the case are acting surprised by how the questioning went, as if this is only coming out now. We all had access to the transcript for that months ago and read it.

AB clutching over police lying during questioning when it has been established for quite a while now that it is a legal technique in Indiana feels absurd, especially since she would be more than aware of that as a lawyer.

Do I like how the interrogation was conducted? No. Does it fall within the laws and practices of Indiana? Yes.

Totally agree. I hate the strategy used here, but it’s a perfectly legitimate strategy that has paid dividends in a lot of cases.

And then to mock his description of potential signs of deception, by presenting it completely without context.

No, touching your face in and of itself does not mean you are lying. As anyone who has watched an interrogation knows, people who are lying sometimes give off non verbal cues in the form of pacifying gestures. They may cross their arms when questioning becomes stressful, move their chair back, adjust their posture, touch their face or neck, etc, etc.

It depends on context, and behavior that is outside of someone’s baseline.

Even then it may be meaningless, but it can give a sign to an investigator that they may be on the right track, or that their strategy is working.

The investigator even described them as subtle, so it’s not like he was saying “he touched his face, which means he’s guilty of murder.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Not sure why she or others on other platforms who claim to be deeply involved in the case are acting surprised by how the questioning went, as if this is only coming out now. We all had access to the transcript for that months ago and read it.

AB clutching over police lying during questioning when it has been established for quite a while now that it is a legal technique in Indiana feels absurd, especially since she would be more than aware of that as a lawyer.

Do I like how the interrogation was conducted? No. Does it fall within the laws and practices of Indiana? Yes.

I wonder how many Indiana residents, who are strangers to criminal issues, know that LE is allowed to lie like they do. They even lied to juveniles until we passed a law against that.

IIRC, KAK's interrogation was the first one I ever saw and I was appalled. I thought that kind of stuff was in the movies.

 

[INfisherman]

What if RA really IS the victim of circumstances? The odds REALLY would have had to be against him on that day. Would it even be possible?

Just really seems impossible that someone with the exact same timeline and outfit would be in the video the girls took where they are clearly terrified and being ordered down the hill.

JMO

If he is, I’m never going fishing, gambling or purchasing lottery tickets with him.

 

[justtrish]

Totally agree. I hate the strategy used here, but it’s a perfectly legitimate strategy that has paid dividends in a lot of cases.

And then to mock his description of potential signs of deception, by presenting it completely without context.

No, touching your face in and of itself does not mean you are lying. As anyone who has watched an interrogation knows, people who are lying sometimes give off non verbal cues in the form of pacifying gestures. They may cross their arms when questioning becomes stressful, move their chair back, adjust their posture, touch their face or neck, etc, etc.

It depends on context, and behavior that is outside of someone’s baseline.

Even then it may be meaningless, but it can give a sign to an investigator that they may be on the right track, or that their strategy is working.

The investigator even described them as subtle, so it’s not like he was saying “he touched his face, which means he’s guilty of murder.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

I am curious to know the questions specifically and then the answers.. what if he was asked what are the subtle cues.. I'm sure it was a process of going through the interview.. then if he was behaving one way and after specific qustions he starts touching his face or doing something he did not previously do. We are just missing too much not seeing it ourselves and then someone is summarizing with one tweet and IMO stating things the most sensationalized way to then say tune in at 7pm.. it's designed to get people to go watch her show at 7pm.

 

[Cedars]

The prosecution case this week could have been better probably but I thought it was solid for the most part.
The witnesses weren’t perfect but they were credible which is the most important thing I think.
As someone who was critical of the investigation before RA’s arrest I wasn’t expecting to see shining examples of police work at trial, but it’s actually better than I thought it would be. I wish they had done some things they didn’t. I wish they had done some things differently but that’s hindsight on my part. It certainly wasn’t some giant conspiracy and LE hasn’t tried to cover any mistakes.
Nothing this week has knocked the prosecution train off the rails. RA is still on that bridge. Everything is still stacking. It’s the totality of the evidence and I think right now all is well.

Opinion.

I agree. I think eliminating the conspiracy option is very important.

IMO the only LE mis-step that matters was losing track of that initial lead about RA.

From my point of view, the reason the crime remained unsolved so long, is because they'd lost 2 pieces of paper.

Thank goodness they had the integrity not to try to pin the crime on anyone else, in spite of fervent social media obsessions over false suspects.

IMO, if RA hadn't submitted the tip himself, the crime would remain unsolved (unless he confessed).

I think the whole point about crime solving is it's dependent on killers making mistakes. LE makes mistakes, but, much more importantly, so do killers.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

“Baldwin asked Holeman if he knew about the hair found in Abby’s hand that wasn’t fully DNA tested until last week. Holeman responded that “timing and resources needed to be used in other areas“

What?? Why wouldn’t dna from the CS be a priority??

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

"…..FULLY tested." That indicates to me it had already been tested once. As has been rehashed over & over, it went to the maternal side of one of the girls who weren’t considered suspects, right? To me, dead end. I know, many others want tests done until the exact person is identified - waste of time, money & resources at that time. The killer was still on the loose & they needed to focus elsewhere. Again, not 100% without doubt, just reasonable doubt is necessary & they did achieve that with the initial hair testing.

These witnesses with their short answers & not catching minutia in the questions just make me insane.

Apologies if this has been covered, I’m behind a bit.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

This person is an approved source, but when I see a tweet that says something about "Every shady police tactic".. I quit reading. The "shady" police tactics are allowed and labeling them as such is showing her bias. I get that not everyone agrees with some of the approved tactics used, but that doesn't make them shady and it doesn't make the person doing the interview shady. It is witnesses like this that make me wish we could watch it for ourselves. There is so much left unsaid about what took place over the entire testimony today and with the entire interview of RA.

I'm replying to your comment, but this isn't me saying you think police are shady.. just sharing my thoughts on this discussion about one person's tweets about what happened

There are lots of tactics that can be used. One we see commonly used is giving the suspect an "out." So they'll say, "I know you didn't mean to do it," or "I think you were there and didn't do anything;" something like that. That then opens the door to get the suspect to go further, and perhaps fully confess to their involvement.

Lying about evidence generally only seems to work if the suspect knows the truth about that evidence (it exists or probably exists), because they actually committed the crime. An innocent person would be expected to strongly deny something they know is not true. Of course there can be false confessions based on tactics like this, but that's not what happened here.

I've used this tactic many times with my niece and nephew when they were younger, to great success.

 

[katydid23]

Big week coming up for the prosecution, especially if IMO it looks as if they really need those confessions to land a conviction.

Unless we're also going to see more evidence than was included in the PCA?

I think a nice foundation has been laid for those confessions already.

We saw how RA had given up hope so quickly during the search of his home---saying twice " it doesn't matter- It's OVER"

We heard him say he would NEVER confess to something he didn't do.

He wrote at least one letter to the warden, asking for the chance to formally confess to the killings.

It seems the remaining question up until now has been 'Is RA really BG?' His confessions could answer that question convincingly. IMO

 

[INfisherman]

She seems to have a lot of them. Her opinion that she could sue the courts for more access to the trial wasn't one of her better ones, though. She lost. Podcasters have no legal standing in a criminal trial. Maybe she's making enough money on her podcast or YouTube product that she can afford the legal fees.

She's entitled to her opinions, though.

I figured I’d check her out a few days ago when the eyewitnesses were on the stand. Within the first 2 minutes, I saw in the transcript a section called "Rozzi Fashion Report" or something to that effect. She went into detail about what he was wearing. That’s all I needed to see. Closed the video.

 

[KSwizzle]

Until they show me a confession of his where he explicitly says things that no one but the killer could know it’s hard to take these confessions as 100% proof, and, the prosecution might do that and all the conjecture and back and forth we all are having is for nothing. Until then though he could have confessed another 1000 times doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true

 

[Bergmann]

I think a nice foundation has been laid for those confessions already.

I don't.

State witnesses described someone who doesn't match RA.

Then the firearms expert admitted that ejected bullets don't contain enough impressions to identify them, and also that the bullet could not be excluded from coming from another firearm.

YMMV.

As I said I await the mountain of evidence that has been anticipated since the PCA was published.

I think the state is heavily relying on those confessions unless there is more we haven't yet seen.

All JMO

 

[katydid23]

I don't.

State witnesses described someone who doesn't match RA.

I think overall, they described RA AND they all testified that they saw BG. That's all they needed to do. The other evidence shows us that RA =BG.

Then the firearms expert admitted that ejected bullets don't contain enough impressions to identify them, and also that the bullet could not be excluded from coming from another firearm.

I am not relying 100% on the exclusive match. RA PUT HIMSELF on that bridge at the same exact time as BG is photographed there. RA never says he saw another guy there dressed just like he was dressed.

YMMV.

As I said I await the mountain of evidence that has been anticipated since the PCA was published.

I think the state is heavily relying on those confessions unless there is more we haven't yet seen.

All JMO

The confessions will be very helpful to add to the rest of the data. IMO

 

[Betty P]

I'm trying to make sure I have everything straight WRT CAST evidence from the crime scenes.

We know they were able to download and discover the movements, location and activity of Libby's phone during that afternoon and night. Digital evidence from phones of witnesses on the path who saw the girls and/or BG was also verified.

Though RA's phone he was using that day is missing, was the FBI able to download any data regarding his cell phone from the tower that day? Was LE able to determine his phone number and type of phone, even if they couldn't find it years later when they searched his home?

Digital data puts the girls on the bridge near BG at a specific time, from photos they uploaded and probably verified with CAST data. But do they have RA's phone data showing him also on that bridge at the same time as Abby & Libby?

We have RA on the bridge via his own admission and from a witness who saw him on the platform. It would be great if they linked him via his phone signal to the spot near the girls at the right time. JMO, if they have that, along with his admission and the other evidence, it seems very high likelihood the jury will find him guilty.

TIA

 

[ClearAhead]

Each of RA’s statements during the interview could be inferred as admitting his guilt. He didn’t need prison to start confessing, seems it began here. It not a surprise he was arrested, LE was doing him a favour as his comments indicate he may be suicidal. JMO

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-trial-isp-lt-recounts-richard-allens-arrest-interviews/

With the death penalty on the line, Allen then said “I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”
….
Holeman stated that while troopers were searching his house, Richard Allen said “I don’t care, it’s over.” Holeman initially did not know what this meant, so Allen reportedly said the “interview explained it.”
…..
Holeman then added that a trooper told Allen he was not a bad person. Allen responded to this, asking “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”

That trooper advised Allen he was free to leave. Allen said he was done but continued to talk, Holeman said. According to him, Allen then stated “You have all the evidence, just arrest me.”

 

[Cota332]

IMO, they have the right guy
BUT one of the most critical pieces of evidence, the forensics of the unspent round is somewhat dubious; Considering that recent media headlines saying something along the lines of 'Unspent Bullet links suspect to crime scene.'

The crime lab determined the basic make and model of the firearm that the unspent round came from, but was unable to determine whether it came from Richard Allen's specific firearm. (Source per Firearm Examiner Testimony)

The prosecution had much less evidence going into this than I presumed they did.

If it weren't for the alleged confessions, I'd bet that Allen would have walked free; as the rest of the evidence seems somewhat circumstantial.

 

[katydid23]

Until they show me a confession of his where he explicitly says things that no one but the killer could know it’s hard to take these confessions as 100% proof, and, the prosecution might do that and all the conjecture and back and forth we all are having is for nothing. Until then though he could have confessed another 1000 times doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true

If someone who was actually on that bridge, dressed just like the man in the picture, at the exact same time as the girls were kidnapped, confessed 1000x, you think that doesn't mean it's true? What else would be needed to show truth?