Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[INfisherman]

Until they show me a confession of his where he explicitly says things that no one but the killer could know it’s hard to take these confessions as 100% proof, and, the prosecution might do that and all the conjecture and back and forth we all are having is for nothing. Until then though he could have confessed another 1000 times doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true

It will be a battle & the D is going to pull some doozies for objections, I’m sure.

Was skimming through their motion to have Holeman’s interview thrown out & a couple of reasons they listed were:

• RA was in a small enclosed room with no windows
• RA was in a closed room with no windows & the door closed.
• RA is physically smaller than Holeman (this one made me laugh)

If alleged interview responses from RA were true, he didn’t seem to mind it too much when he was dropping his f-bombs, getting puffy & telling Holeman to leave his wife out of it.

ETA dancing bulleting

 

[fred&edna]

It's silly to hear a defense attorney complain about LE and use the words "shady tactics". I mean, seriously... what type of tactics (behavior, words and actions) do their guilty clients use ALL the time? Some officers are just better at the interviews than others... just like lawyers and their oft' used "shady tactics"

(pot meet kettle)

jmo

 

[Bergmann]

The prosecution had much less evidence going into this than I presumed they did.

If it weren't for the alleged confessions, I'd bet that Allen would have walked free; as the rest of the evidence seems somewhat circumstantial.

Totally agree.

I was expecting a lot more from the prosecution to be honest.

 

[KSwizzle]

If someone who was actually on that bridge, dressed just like the man in the picture, at the exact same time as the girls were kidnapped, confessed 1000x, you think that doesn't mean it's true? What else would be needed to show truth?

Well, I don’t necessarily disagree with you but, the one witness said that she saw a “bloody and muddy” man walking and he had different pants on than bridge guy (if we’re assuming bridge guy is RA), also, there was at least one witness who said they saw a younger person on the trails, their description was different than how RA looks

And even if RA is bridge guy, which I do think he is, that doesn’t mean he was the person who committed these crimes, they haven’t proved that yet beyond a reasonable doubt, the defense alibi is terrible I admit but there could have been a second person, there was like I said a witness who said that she saw a younger person, also, why couldn’t RA have been working with someone else to commit the crime that was already down the hill, sure he’d still be guilty but this other individual would not face justice

Just a lot of reasonable doubt to me, like I wrote earlier though, the confessions coming in might nip it all in the bud

 

[ClearAhead]

A few other points in mention -

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-trial-isp-lt-recounts-richard-allens-arrest-interviews/

At the trial, Holeman was asked if he believed one person committed the crime, to which he responded “I believe that now.” When pressed, Holeman compared the case to a drug deal in which multiple people talk and provide further insight on crimes.
….
Holeman was then questioned if he and ISP had a video of Bridge Guy, in order to see how tall he appeared in the video. He responded by saying they did but never tested it due to his height potentially being “…outside of our accuracy range” by about two inches.
…..
He does, however, think Allen “…may have heard somebody”, such as a car, that interrupted him during the murder.
——-
Later, Lieutenant Holeman noted that a strand of hair found in Abby’s hand did connect to a member of Libby German’s family, but it was not tested until this past week. According to Holeman, that is because no member of the German family was suspected of the crime.

No DNA was found in Richard’s Allen car or house linking him to the crime scene.

 

[Bergmann]

they described RA AND they all testified that they saw BG.

You’ll have to remind me what has been reported they said then because in my recollection they said ‘this is the person we saw’ referring to BG but then described someone who bore no resemblance to RA - JMO.

If only we had access to the transcript or video of their testimony this would be much easier and clear cut.

 

[MassGuy]

Each of RA’s statements during the interview could be inferred as admitting his guilt. He didn’t need prison to start confessing, seems it began here. It not a surprise he was arrested, LE was doing him a favour as his comments indicate he may be suicidal. JMO

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-trial-isp-lt-recounts-richard-allens-arrest-interviews/

With the death penalty on the line, Allen then said “I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”
….
Holeman stated that while troopers were searching his house, Richard Allen said “I don’t care, it’s over.” Holeman initially did not know what this meant, so Allen reportedly said the “interview explained it.”
…..
Holeman then added that a trooper told Allen he was not a bad person. Allen responded to this, asking “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”

That trooper advised Allen he was free to leave. Allen said he was done but continued to talk, Holeman said. According to him, Allen then stated “You have all the evidence, just arrest me.”

Wow. This is even more interesting than the comments he apparently made at the house.

“I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”

If you didn’t do it, then I’d expect someone in that situation to be angry and terrified. I wouldn’t expect them to be throwing in the towel.

Even if one argues that his reputation is destroyed and that’s why he’s saying that, wouldn’t your freedom be a much more important concern?

 

[INfisherman]

I wonder how many Indiana residents, who are strangers to criminal issues, know that LE is allowed to lie like they do. They even lied to juveniles until we passed a law against that.

IIRC, KAK's interrogation was the first one I ever saw and I was appalled. I thought that kind of stuff was in the movies.

DTA - don’t trust anyone, especially if you’re being questioned about anything criminal by authorities. Unless you’re being arrested, you can walk out at any point in time. With that being said, I wouldn’t let things get to a point of physical contact being needed. I’d just stop talking.

 

[MassGuy]

Well, I don’t necessarily disagree with you but, the one witness said that she saw a “bloody and muddy” man walking and he had different pants on than bridge guy (if we’re assuming bridge guy is RA), also, there was at least one witness who said they saw a younger person on the trails, their description was different than how RA looks

And even if RA is bridge guy, which I do think he is, that doesn’t mean he was the person who committed these crimes, they haven’t proved that yet beyond a reasonable doubt, the defense alibi is terrible I admit but there could have been a second person, there was like I said a witness who said that she saw a younger person, also, why couldn’t RA have been working with someone else to commit the crime that was already down the hill, sure he’d still be guilty but this other individual would not face justice

Just a lot of reasonable doubt to me, like I wrote earlier though, the confessions coming in might nip it all in the bud

If there was a second person, that doesn’t clear BG.

I find that insanely unlikely, as the crime scene didn’t require it, and shows no evidence of it. That recovered unspent round found on the ground indicates to me the efforts of one man trying to control two girls.

As for those witness sightings, the most compelling thing for me is that group of girls that Allen also claimed to have seen. They had a younger child with them and Allen also remarked about a younger child.

Of course two of those witnesses in that group described the clothing accurately, and Allen described his clothing as matching BG.
That third witness in the group got the clothing completely wrong, but it was the exact same sighting at the same time.

The timing and mutual identification fits nicely.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Wow. This is even more interesting than the comments he apparently made at the house.

“I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”

If you didn’t do it, then I’d expect someone in that situation to be angry and terrified. I wouldn’t expect them to be throwing in the towel.

Even if one argues that his reputation is destroyed and that’s why he’s saying that, wouldn’t your freedom be a much more important concern?

Depending on depression or other mental/emotional health issues , substance use factors etc I could see someone who was caught up in something or accused of something feeling like they wanted to die to escape from the situation-without necessarily being guilty of what they are accused of- moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I am extremely confident in Allen's guilt, but at this stage, I am not confident in the prosecution's ability to convict him.

I do not like the fact that the testing on the round was not also sent to an outside lab (FBI) for confirmation.

I do not like that it appears the FBI was not utilized more. It feels like ISP may have been playing politics. I would like to hear from an FBI CAST expert for instance, but we've only heard from an ISP expert in that regard.

I was not impressed by the pathologist. I feel like he's past his prime, and was not as effective on the stand as I hoped for (his changing take on what made those wounds). This also could have come down to questioning by the prosecution, but I was not a fan.

I do not like witnesses who say something on the stand that is extremely damaging to the defendant, and we later learn more context that makes those remarks less incriminating, or even potentially not incriminating.

I think Sheriff Liggett's testimony was terrible, and that he came across as incompetent.

I do not like that interview we heard about today. I think it was much too combative, and that caused Allen not to share information that he otherwise might have.

I do not like this lost video stuff. No, I don't believe it was intentional, but it's just sloppy.

It all comes down to how convinced the jury is in regards to what the prosecution has sold them so far. If they believe the bullet evidence, the timeline, the witness statements (especially the one corroborated by Allen), then they are in decent shape. They may not be though, and that could be a problem.

In that case there better be more, or the confessions better be as effective as the prosecution has characterized them as, or the defense will be able to inflict a lot of damage when they get the ball.

Yup....

Moo..

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Sure. But imo, not that unusual for a man to own a dark black or blue jacket in any particular brand... they seem fairly common. In the absence of anything significant that ties his jacket to the kids or the crime... then it’s just a jacket imo. I was really hoping that LE would have some sort of DNA link there but without it, that is just another jacket imo.....

But what about the sworn witness who claimed she saw BG on the trail and his clothes were covered in mud and “blood”. IMO

 

[cbeagle]

If there was a second person and Allen didn’t actually commit the murder, he is still guilty of felony murder, which involves two of the charges.

Is he, because that's not what the jury instructions say?

 

[MassGuy]

Is he, because that's not what the jury instructions say?

I’ll have to read them. That’s how felony murder typically works, but maybe Indiana has different guidelines.

ETA I stand corrected.

 

[INfisherman]

But what about the sworn witness who claimed she saw BG on the trail and his clothes were covered in mud and “blood”. IMO

I believe that witness, SC, was driving her car along 300N as the killer was making his escape & while family was initially gathering to look for girls.

 

[katydid23]

Depending on depression or other mental/emotional health issues , substance use factors etc I could see someone who was caught up in something or accused of something feeling like they wanted to die to escape from the situation-without necessarily being guilty of what they are accused of- moo

But why confess more than 60 times to dozens of people if he was not guilty?

 

[Betty P]

Until they show me a confession of his where he explicitly says things that no one but the killer could know it’s hard to take these confessions as 100% proof, and, the prosecution might do that and all the conjecture and back and forth we all are having is for nothing. Until then though he could have confessed another 1000 times doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true

He did say that there were 3 girls on the path, one babysitting, who passed him on his way to the bridge. That information was confirmed by those girls, who stated they saw him.

RA acknowledged the girls on the path when he talked to DD in the grocery store parking lot. At that time, only LE knew about the girls on the path who saw RA. According to the girls, there was only 1 man on the path who passed them.

 

[Bergmann]

But why confess more than 60 times to dozens of people if he was not guilty?

Why confess to shooting the girls and killing his parents and his non existent grandchildren if reports are to be believed?

Personally I hope all 60 odd of the confessions are read to the jury and they can decide if they are valid.

If this is what the state is relying on I’d be worried IMO.

 

[KSwizzle]

That puts him on the trails, which he admits to being there but what about that incriminates him as being the murderer?

I think the next couple court days will either seal the deal and show he was the culprit or this may turn into a gong show of reasonable doubt

In the end everyone just wants the right person to be put away and done well enough they can’t get off on appeal

 

[katydid23]

You’ll have to remind me what has been reported they said then because in my recollection they said ‘this is the person we saw’ referring to BG but then described someone who bore no resemblance to RA - JMO.

If only we had access to the transcript or video of their testimony this would be much easier and clear cut.

All the witnesses need to do is convince the jury they all saw BG.

Then the P can prove that the ONLY male up there on the bridge with the girls was RA. So that means RA=BG, imo.

I think logically we can see that RA = BG