Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[katydid23]

Yeah. I should know better than to buy what they’re selling.

Yes, I think this is the third or fourth time they have asked to be able to present this Odinist scenario. Each time it was ruled that there was not enough ADMISSIBLE evidence connecting their suspects to the murders. But they keep asking anyway but without submitting an offer of proof. Or a solid offer of proof.

 

[katydid23]

Oh, he will be called up all right. I am eager for that.

You know that he was at work, while the girls were being kidnapped, right?

 

[katydid23]

“hey kiddo. What movie did you see?”
“Idk, some horror movie”
“Didn’t see a film, did ya…?”
moo.

Why would he be trying to convince his mother that he killed 2 young girls if he didn't do so?

He did not sound psychotic in those calls, IMO. He did not sound incoherent or crazy.

What was the purpose of those confessions to his mom?

 

[photographer4]

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like investigators hadn’t investigated this point to date then for whatever reason. I wonder why they either didn’t or why this witness didn’t know the answer? Moo.

Oh I checked to learn a bit more and found that, aside not having the information when the jury asked, when he was back on the stand, “Jennifer Auger, one of Allen’s attorneys, argued the car captured on the Hoosier Harvestore surveillance footage does not show the registration or model. She further pointed out the trails are frequented by out-of-town visitors.”

'I killed Abby and Libby': Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to Delphi murders

"I killed Abby and Libby," Allen reportedly said. "I will kill everyone. I will wipe out everybody," Dr. Monica Wala testified.

www.indystar.com

Seems like the make and model of the vehicle in question weren’t even visible on the video from the HH store so not sure how relevant the car is in this case. The same car police couldn’t find any evidence in to link the car or RA to the crime. Delphi murders trial: DNA evidence shows no ties to suspect, anyone else, expert says

 

[Betty P]

Did you know that the charges were all dropped against Mitch Westerman? Why did that happen ?

The photos didn’t magically move out of their office to the internet. It was their responsibility to protect them. They negligently or purposely failed to do so.

 

[katydid23]

Oh I checked to learn a bit more and found that, aside not having the information when the jury asked, when he was back on the stand, “Jennifer Auger, one of Allen’s attorneys, argued the car captured on the Hoosier Harvestore surveillance footage does not show the registration or model. She further pointed out the trails are frequented by out-of-town visitors.”

'I killed Abby and Libby': Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to Delphi murders

"I killed Abby and Libby," Allen reportedly said. "I will kill everyone. I will wipe out everybody," Dr. Monica Wala testified.

www.indystar.com

Seems like the make and model of the vehicle in question weren’t even visible on the video from the HH store so not sure how relevant the car is in this case. The same car police couldn’t find any evidence in to link the car or RA to the crime. Delphi murders trial: DNA evidence shows no ties to suspect, anyone else, expert says

It doesn't really matter because he already admitted to driving to the trails that afternoon. So at this point it doesn't really matter if the state can prove that is his black Ford Fiesta or not. We already know he was there. IMO

 

[Betty P]

Oh I checked to learn a bit more and found that, aside not having the information when the jury asked, when he was back on the stand, “Jennifer Auger, one of Allen’s attorneys, argued the car captured on the Hoosier Harvestore surveillance footage does not show the registration or model. She further pointed out the trails are frequented by out-of-town visitors.”

'I killed Abby and Libby': Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to Delphi murders

"I killed Abby and Libby," Allen reportedly said. "I will kill everyone. I will wipe out everybody," Dr. Monica Wala testified.

www.indystar.com

Seems like the make and model of the vehicle in question weren’t even visible on the video from the HH store so not sure how relevant the car is in this case. The same car police couldn’t find any evidence in to link the car or RA to the crime. Delphi murders trial: DNA evidence shows no ties to suspect, anyone else, expert says

RA had seven years to get rid of evidence. Just because he was able to do so doesn’t mean he gets a free pass for killing Abby and Libby.

We can go back and forth like this forever, but it doesn’t change the facts, nor his confessions.

 

[photographer4]

Dbm.

 

[sunshineray]

In this case, the boogeyman is the State imo.

Why? For what logical purpose would they charge little CVS guy RA, ignoring everyone else they've ever investigated? And why then would that unknown and mentally and addictively challenged little unknown CVS guy decide to help them out by confessing and incriminate himself upwards of 700 times, 700!?

How'd he know about the white van? That's a big one. That info was never in his discovery (that he supposedly read every page of and knows everything he confessed from) nor was it sonething his lawyers and their staff knew until after RA confessed upwards of 700 times.

And why, if he's such a changed man (according to some who are linked in this thread) is he continuing to act out in County Jail and threatening to kill his guard?

What's the boogeyman State done and why to frame little CVS guy RA? What's all behind that accusation?

 

[Dhighsmith]

It doesn't really matter because he already admitted to driving to the trails that afternoon. So at this point it doesn't really matter if the state can prove that is his black Ford Fiesta or not. We already know he was there. IMO

I’m confused why this seems to be an issue when he himself admitted driving to the trails- is there concern for additional charges, there’s no threat of drinking and driving charge after claiming to have consumed 3 beers after leaving his Mother’s- he voluntarily offered the info on his presence at MHB.

 

[photographer4]

RA had seven years to get rid of evidence. Just because he was able to do so doesn’t mean he gets a free pass for killing Abby and Libby.

We can go back and forth like this forever, but it doesn’t change the facts, nor his confessions.

And yet, he didn’t;
- get rid of the car
- his clothes
- his gun

And nothing the investigators found in his home or car was able to be tied to the crime or the kids at all by dna or transfer evidence.

Really surprised they found nothing in the car given a quote from Dr. Wala’s testimony which I linked and provided upthread said he (paraphrased here for brevity since I already discussed above)… he exited the scene, and got in his car. No mention of washing up first or changing clothes. He said he got rid of the box cutter behind the cvs - no transfer of blood? Nothing in the car? Really surprised (moo).

Delphi murders trial: DNA evidence shows no ties to suspect, anyone else, expert says

No DNA was found at the site of the Delphi, Indiana, double murders to tie the suspect, Richard Allen, or anyone else to the crime scene, a forensic scientist testified Monday during Allen's trial.

abc7chicago.com

His “confessions”, imo, were weak.

It will be interesting to see what the Defence presents now that the state has rested. Moo

 

[photographer4]

Why? For what logical purpose would they charge little CVS guy RA, ignoring everyone else they've ever investigated? And why then would that unknown and mentally and addictively challenged little unknown CVS guy decide to help them out by confessing and incriminate himself upwards of 700 times, 700!?

How'd he know about the white van? That's a big one. That info was never in his discovery (that he supposedly read every page of and knows everything he confessed from) nor was it sonething his lawyers and their staff knew until after RA confessed upwards of 700 times.

And why, if he's such a changed man (according to some who are linked in this thread) is he continuing to act out in County Jail and threatening to kill his guard?

What's the boogeyman State done and why to frame little CVS guy RA? What's all behind that accusation?

I don’t presume to know why him over other suspects. I wasn’t involved in their investigation. I found his “confessions” quite weak for reasons I’ve already asserted in prior posts so I won’t reiterate them here. I saw no proof presented that he “continues to act out in county jail”. Neither did the jury. I have no information to confirm the assertion by the P as a result and no information from JG as to why she sustained the objection to show the jury the video of the alleged incident in question. Lastly, I think I’ve made some of my issues with the State’s case clear already so I will leave it at that. If in doubt, you could search my username and review my posts up thread. Edited to add: Dr wala didn’t say he said white van. He said he heard a van. Small but important detail imo (I linked a supporting article with a quote from her testimony upthread).

Link to the fact that the judge sustained the objection that stopped the jury from seeing any evidence of NM’s allegation that RA acted out as you called it:

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

 

[katydid23]

I don’t presume to know why him over other suspects. I wasn’t involved in their investigation. I found his “confessions” quite weak for reasons I’ve already asserted in prior posts so I won’t reiterate them here. I saw no proof presented that he “continues to act out in county jail”. Neither did the jury. I have no information to confirm the assertion by the P as a result and no information from JG as to why she sustained the objection to show the jury the video of the alleged incident in question. Lastly, I think I’ve made some of my issues with the State’s case clear already so I will leave it at that. If in doubt, you could search my username and review my posts up thread. Edited to add: Dr wala didn’t say he said white van. He said he heard a van. Small but important detail imo (I linked a supporting article with a quote from her testimony upthread).

Link to the fact that the judge sustained the objection that stopped the jury from seeing any evidence of NM’s allegation that RA acted out as you called it:

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

He said he was interrupted by a van, when he was alongside the creek, right by the Weber's driveway. Then we find out that B Weber did drive his van down that driveway around that same time.

That seems to be something that RA could not have known unless he was Actually there. Testimony was that RA did NOT have anything in Discovery about that van before he made that confession. Dr W. knew nothing about that van either.

I think that will have a strong impact upon the jury. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t presume to know why him over other suspects. I wasn’t involved in their investigation. I found his “confessions” quite weak for reasons I’ve already asserted in prior posts so I won’t reiterate them here. I saw no proof presented that he “continues to act out in county jail”. Neither did the jury. I have no information to confirm the assertion by the P as a result and no information from JG as to why she sustained the objection to show the jury the video of the alleged incident in question. Lastly, I think I’ve made some of my issues with the State’s case clear already so I will leave it at that. If in doubt, you could search my username and review my posts up thread. Edited to add: Dr wala didn’t say he said white van. He said he heard a van. Small but important detail imo (I linked a supporting article with a quote from her testimony upthread).

Link to the fact that the judge sustained the objection that stopped the jury from seeing any evidence of NM’s allegation that RA acted out as you called it:

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

ISP Harshman testifying under oath to it happening didn't count as it actually happening? Well I believe him.

I also believe RA's confessions of guilt and no I do not believe his professions of innocent for they were conveniently and greatly influenced by his very real fear of losing his family's love and that family was greatly influenced by lawyers who, IMO, have hidden agendas and very few ethics.

I believe the witnesses, their timelines (some confirmed by RA) and their identifications. I believe RA putting himself on the bridge moments before the girls got there, in BG's clothes (as RA stated). I believe the bullet (since RA confirmed having the gun and racking it). I believe the wounds on two darling girls and RA's box cutter weapon (he confessed to it). I believe BW and the white van (also confirmed by RA and before LE or defense ever knew about it).

I believe the "boogeyman State" got the right man, the murderer (also confirmed by RA's own words over and over).

I also thank God for and believe a sequestered jury, who ask intelligent question, will come to the right and just conclusion.

All the above are just my opinions. We can respectfully agree to disagree in every possible way about this case.

 

[susiQ]

Did investigators investigate this before or after the trial began? Does anyone know? Not moo - this is a question. Ty.

After, because that’s how they roll it appears .

 

[Vern]

He said he was interrupted by a van, when he was alongside the creek, right by the Weber's driveway. Then we find out that B Weber did drive his van down that driveway around that same time.

That seems to be something that RA could not have known unless he was Actually there. Testimony was that RA did NOT have anything in Discovery about that van before he made that confession. Dr W. knew nothing about that van either.

I think that will have a strong impact upon the jury. IMO

Defense calls first 2 witnesses after state rests its case in Delphi murders trial

It's been two years since multiple law enforcement agencies announced Richard Allen's arrest in the Delphi killings. His trial continues Thursday.

www.indystar.com

Richard Allen said he saw a white van near the trail when he kidnapped the girls, psychologist's report shows​

...
Allen, according to Wala's note, said he intended to rape the girls, but he didn't because he saw a white van driving nearby. Instead, he crossed Deer Creek, killed them and left, avoiding the main trails as he walked back to his car.

 

[acehard]

They arrested him before any of these confessions, yet the confessions seem to be the most damning. Without them, they have the bullet and placing him there which he admitted being there? MOO

 

[Tortoise]

I found that a desperate move by the sinking ship that is the P in this case. LOL imo, NM knew the D was going to object to the video being included since the D hadn't seen it yet, he didn't care. Imo, he just wanted the jury to hear it - bonus if they got to see the video, which they didn't.

Sounds like what do some people call it? A big nothingburger on that video since JG ruled against the jury seeing it - moo. I hope the jury found this as comical and slimy by the P as I did. MOOO.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

I'm just listening to Lawyer Lee's update for yesterday, and at around the 50 min mark in her video, she explains why the prosecution moved to admit this. They argued the defense had opened the door to it, during their cross-examination of Harshman, when Rozzi asked him;

1. have you been listening to phone calls of his in the last 3 weeks, and would this be a really stressful time coming into trial?
2. have there been times where he's proclaimed his innocence?
3. have you ever seen him pose a threat to anyone at Westville?

 

[Niner]

Friday, November 1st:
*Trial continues (Day 13) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Initial bond @ $20M on 10/27/22. On 2/16/23 held with no bond.
Amended charges (on 1/18/24/granted on 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Plead not guilty.
Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer [8/1/24] of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon. Prosecutors rested their case on 10/31/24. Defense began their case on 10/31/24.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency on 10/25/24. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-11 (10/18-10/30/24) reference post #47 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-208.727583/page-3
10/31/24 Thursday, Trial Day 12: Today jurors will hear 2 hours of prison [Westville] phone calls where Allen confesses to the murders of Abby & Libby. The calls are between Allen, his wife & his mother. State is expected to rest at the end of this testimony.
*The State moves to admit an exhibit that the defense objects to, saying they have never seen it before. Gull does not admit that exhibit. The State moves to admit photos of Allen from his phone, arguing that they would like the jury to be able to see what Allen looked like before his arrest. The defense wants the dates on the photos removed. Judge Gull says the defense can review & the matter will be revisited after lunch. Prosecutor Nick McLeland tells the judge they are planning to admit 7 DOC phone calls to Allen’s wife & mother. The defense objects because they say the prosecution is not offering one of the phone calls in the time where Allen said he is innocent & describes being mentally tortured & “killed” at the Westfield Correctional Unit. Judge Gull admits the calls over the defense’s objection & says the defense can play the omitted call if they so choose & their argument would be more valid if the state was trying to admit incomplete phone calls. Defense attorney Jennifer Auger references another exhibit, which is Allen’s Google search history. Gull says that will be handled later, again, after lunch.
State witnesses: ISP Master Trooper Brian Harshman [listened to over 700 calls made by Allen].
*Seven audio tapes from inside the Correctional Facility were played for jurors. On the tapes is Allen talking to his wife in Nov. 14, 2022, April 2 [w/mother], 3, 13, 2023, May 10, 2023 & June 5 & 11, 2023. There are several admissions of guilt, but Allen provides no details. The prosecution plays the “down the hill” video for Harshman. Harshman is viewing the stabilized version, which is time-stamped Feb. 13, 2017. He tells the jury he recognizes the voice from Allen’s jail phone calls, and that the voice is the same as bridge guy.
*McLeland asks Harshman if that over lunch today he watched a video of Allen screaming & swearing in the Cass County jail recently, saying to a guard that he was going f-ing kill him. Defense attorney Rozzi objects, saying he was not aware of this evidence. He requests a sidebar. Afternoon testimony delayed after the defense objected to the prosecution’s plans to play a video. After a nearly 10-minute discussion with attorneys from both sides, Judge Gull said she would watch the video in her chambers before deciding if the jury can see it.
*Judge Gull enters the courtroom and says she has viewed the video. Rozzi objects, Gull says she is sustaining the objection and the video will not be shown to the jury for now. Prosecutors rested their case.
Defense witnesses: Cheyenne Mill, formerly Cheyenne Ingles, of Winamac. Mill & her best friend went hiking Feb. 13, 2017. Teresa Liebert. She said she lives near Brad Weber.
*Judge Gull ruled she’s allow jurors to hear about Allen’s Google searches & denied letting the jury see photos of him before he was arrested.
For more info see post #179 (Day 12 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-208.727583/page-9
Trial continues on Friday, 11/1/24 @ 9am.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm just listening to Lawyer Lee's update for yesterday, and at around the 50 min mark in her video, she explains why the prosecution moved to admit this. They argued the defense had opened the door to it, during their cross-examination of Harshman, when Rozzi asked him;

1. have you been listening to phone calls of his in the last 3 weeks, and would this be a really stressful time coming into trial?
2. have there been times where he's proclaimed his innocence?
3. have you ever seen him pose a threat to anyone at Westville?

interesting T. i can see why it wasn’t allowed though.