Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[MsMarple]

Lunch!

We take a lunch break​

By Judd Boaz​

There's still more testimony to come from Mr Schonknecht, and more pages of his visits to various Asian grocers.

So far, much of the testimony has been that he found no evidence of death cap mushrooms being sold in any Asian grocers in the area.

More to come after lunch.

 

[Yh5r]

It really should.

Absolutely. A huge waste of taxpayer resources.

Let alone causing unnecessary stress and damaging the reputation of the stores in question.

Paints a picture as to what kind of a person EP is. Still proceeding with the trial, still not admitting guilt and apologising to all those involved, far beyond the alleged immediate victims.

 

[Scuffy35]

If the defence admitted that EP foraged for mushrooms and lied about the purchase of the mushrooms, then prosecution and defence agree on this. What is the need of going through the list of all the stores that were visited and inspected for their mushrooms on sale.

This is what I am wondering. I know the defence admitted to foraging, but did they explicitly admit that buying from an asian grocery shop was a lie? Otherwise maybe the defence are leaving open that the DC mushrooms still could have come from a shop.

 

[Bats]

This is what I am wondering. I know the defence admitted to foraging, but did they explicitly admit that buying from an asian grocery shop was a lie? Otherwise maybe the defence are leaving open that the DC mushrooms still could have come from a shop.

Yes, i expect that's correct.

Edit: actually not correct as pointed out by Eloise below...

 

[Eloise]

Maybe its so we're clear that it didn't happen and that she didn't falsify that confession or something like that? Otherwise, it seems like a waste of time but I'm no big brain lawyer.

edit: it would also rule out the chance that maybe at some point purchased mushrooms could have made their way into the cooked food, therefore creating reasonable doubt that it was the foraged ones that caused the deaths.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

1m ago

Nurse Cespon finishes her testimony​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy confirms several more details, including Erin Patterson stating her pain was a "seven out of ten" while at hospital.

She confirms that Erin Patterson directed police to search her bin for leftovers.

Ms Cespon's testimony draws to a close, and the next witness is brought up to give testimony.

We next hear from Troy Schonknecht, an environmental health officer with the City of Monash council.

A 7 out of 10 pain level is pretty intense. At that level, I imagine there's obvious signs of discomfort to an observer, maybe some groaning, oohs & aahs observed as well. I can imagine the patient would not be comfortable , and shifting around in their seat or bed. Asking, if not begging, for some pain relief. Maybe crying, or discomfort written all over their face. I wonder what this nurse observed as far as Erin's demeanour and actions were during this time period. Or did I miss that?

 

[Yh5r]

A 7 out of 10 pain level is pretty intense. At that level, I imagine there's obvious signs of discomfort to an observer, maybe some groaning, oohs & aahs observed as well. I can imagine the patient would not be comfortable , and shifting around in their seat or bed. Asking, if not begging, for some pain relief. Maybe crying, or discomfort written all over their face. I wonder what this nurse observed as far as Erin's demeanour and actions were during this time period. Or did I miss that?

Seems to me that EP is dramatic when it comes to her or the children and fairly carefree when it concerns others

MOO

 

[Two SCents]

Yeah, it was absolutely a waste of time and resources given the defence have admitted she lied to police about the purchase of the mushrooms.

Here's the quote so no mistake is made that that is not alleged, defence have said this in court.

Defence counsel for the woman accused of cooking a meal of beef Wellington, containing death cap mushrooms on Saturday, July 29, 2023, Colin Mandy SC, acknowledged that in his opening remarks way back at the start of the triple murder trial.“She also lied to the police about foraging for mushrooms,” said Mr Mandy to the jury on Day Two of the trial in the Supreme Court at Morwell on Wednesday, April 30.“She admits that,” he said.“She did forage for mushrooms. Just so that we make that clear, she denies that she ever deliberately sought out death cap mushrooms.”

My interpretation of that statement from Mandy...
What Mandy is addressing there is the lie that she didn't forage for mushrooms, as in she wasn't a forager. She has now admitted she has foraged for mushrooms.
He's not addressing the lie that she bought some of the the mushrooms in the BW from an Asian grocer.

 

[MsMarple]

This is what I am wondering. I know the defence admitted to foraging, but did they explicitly admit that buying from an asian grocery shop was a lie? Otherwise maybe the defence are leaving open that the DC mushrooms still could have come from a shop.

No. Erin’s defense made it clear that she lied:

ERIN Patterson lied to the police about foraging for wild mushrooms.

Defence counsel for the woman accused of cooking a meal of beef Wellington, containing death cap mushrooms on Saturday, July 29, 2023, Colin Mandy SC, acknowledged that in his opening remarks way back at the start of the triple murder trial.

“She also lied to the police about foraging for mushrooms,” said Mr Mandy to the jury on Day Two of the trial in the Supreme Court at Morwell on Wednesday, April 30.

“She admits that,” he said.

“She did forage for mushrooms. Just so that we make that clear, she denies that she ever deliberately sought out death cap mushrooms.”

Murder allegations, lies and the hazards of mushrooming - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

ERIN Patterson lied to the police about foraging for wild mushrooms. Defence counsel for the woman accused of cooking a meal of beef Wellington, containing death cap mushrooms on Saturday, July 29, 2023, Colin Mandy SC, acknowledged that in his...

www.sgst.com.au

The reason for all the testimony is because the jury must deliberate on the facts of the case, not just what prosecution and defense assert in opening statements.

And if I was the prosecutor I’d drive home how Erin’s lies negatively affected so many in the community. Sending authorities on wild goose chases is terrible.

 

[LinasK]

It’s easy to forget if you never went to any shop.

What kills me is how she even made up a phony description of the packaging.

Just out of curiosity, I looked at the mushroom section in my local market last night. Turns out that they DO sell a box of mixed "exotic" mushrooms- I previously thought that you could only buy them by type- Bella, Crimini, Shiitake, Portabella, etc.- but... they are explicitly labeled as California grown. I should have taken a picture.

 

[Eloise]

My interpretation of that statement from Mandy...
What Mandy is addressing there is the lie that she didn't forage for mushrooms, as in she wasn't a forager. She has now admitted she has foraged for mushrooms.
He's not addressing the lie that she bought some of the the mushrooms in the BW from an Asian grocer.

No. Mandy has specifically said that the 'Asian grocer' claim itself was a lie.

Erin Patterson's lawyer tells jury mushroom poisoning deaths were 'a terrible accident' — as it happened

A Supreme Court jury hears opening submissions in the trial of Victorian woman Erin Patterson, who is accused of using a poisoned meal to murder three relatives. Look back at how it unfolded on our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

• 4.The defence says initial statements made to police by Ms Patterson — that she did not own a food dehydrator, that she had bought mushrooms from an Asian grocer and that she had not foraged for mushrooms — were lies brought on by her panicking.
• 5.But Ms Patterson's lawyer says what happened was "a tragedy and a terrible accident" and his client is innocent of murder.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Seems to me that EP is dramatic when it comes to her or the children and fairly carefree when it concerns others

MOO

 

[Bats]

Yes, i expect that's correct.

Replying to my own post...

Not forgetting, this is the prosecution's evidence so they need to cover off possibilities that the defence may raise.

 

[Two SCents]

No. Mandy has specifically said that the 'Asian grocer' claim itself was a lie.

Erin Patterson's lawyer tells jury mushroom poisoning deaths were 'a terrible accident' — as it happened

A Supreme Court jury hears opening submissions in the trial of Victorian woman Erin Patterson, who is accused of using a poisoned meal to murder three relatives. Look back at how it unfolded on our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

• 4.The defence says initial statements made to police by Ms Patterson — that she did not own a food dehydrator, that she had bought mushrooms from an Asian grocer and that she had not foraged for mushrooms — were lies brought on by her panicking.
• 5.But Ms Patterson's lawyer says what happened was "a tragedy and a terrible accident" and his client is innocent of murder.

Thank you for that link and clarifying. It seems the one I was replying to wasn't the full statement

 

[Eloise]

Replying to my own post...

Not forgetting, this is the prosecution's evidence so the need to cover off possibilities that the defence may raise.

yes, I imagine its about closing off any chance of the defence trying to raise reasonable doubt about the death caps' origin. Even though she confessed to foraging mushrooms and not going to a grocer, the prosecution are still making sure its clear that there are no Asian grocers selling death caps, its just not an option, not a chance, no way no how. Jurors will not have in the back of their mind the idea that maybe someone somewhere did buy them from a grocer, etc

 

[MsMarple]

Just out of curiosity, I looked at the mushroom section in my local market last night. Turns out that they DO sell a box of mixed "exotic" mushrooms- I previously thought that you could only buy them by type- Bella, Crimini, Shiitake, Portabella, etc.- but... they are explicitly labeled as California grown. I should have taken a picture.

It’s a moot point here since Erin never bought any mushrooms from an Asian store. I don’t recall her saying it was a bag of mixed mushrooms, only that she said she bought fresh sliced mushrooms from Woolworth’s and a bag of dehydrated mushrooms from an Asian market.

But I could be wrong; so much testimony these past weeks may be muddling my memory.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Asian grocers in Mount Waverley have vehemently rejected any suggestion Erin Patterson could have bought killer mushrooms from their stores.

On Friday, Ms Patterson provided Victoria Police with a sworn written statement claiming she purchased a package of dried mushrooms from an Asian grocery store in the Melbourne suburb at least three months before the lunch.

The package of mushrooms was hand-labelled, she said

On Tuesday, Daily Mail Australia visited Asian grocers in and around the heart of the suburb's busy shopping precinct.

Situated on Hamilton Place, TK Asian Supermarket is by far the largest and most popular of its type.

Two shop attendants told Daily Mail Australia they had never heard of anyone becoming sick from eating mushrooms purchased from their shop.

One of the shopkeepers said the very notion of someone becoming ill from a shop bought dried mushroom seemed 'crazy' to him.

'Yeah, dried, poisonous mushrooms. I don't know about that,' he said.

'We have no idea if she bought them here. I've seen her on the news, but I can't really remember.'

The shopkeeper said none of their mushrooms were labelled in the way Ms Patterson reportedly described her purchase to police.

'She said they were a handwritten, white label and we have never sold that,' he said.

Around the corner, Daily Mail Australia was provided similar answers from both the East Mart and 28 Mart.

East Mart did not even sell dried mushrooms, with the shopkeeper - via use of Google Translate - showing his fridge stocked with only fresh or frozen mushrooms.

28 Mart's dried mushroom products were all neatly labelled, with that shopkeeper also disputing claims poisonous dried mushrooms had been sold in Mount Waverley.

'I sell dried mushrooms, do you want to try?' the shopkeeper asked.

It is not suggested that any of the stores shown sold any poisonous mushrooms.

Asian grocers deny deadly cook 'bought' fatal fungi from their shops

Asian grocers selling mushrooms in the region that supposedly sold the killer fungi to stay-at-home-mum Erin Patterson deny they are responsible for three deaths.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Yh5r]

Asian grocers in Mount Waverley have vehemently rejected any suggestion Erin Patterson could have bought killer mushrooms from their stores.

On Friday, Ms Patterson provided Victoria Police with a sworn written statement claiming she purchased a package of dried mushrooms from an Asian grocery store in the Melbourne suburb at least three months before the lunch.

The package of mushrooms was hand-labelled, she said

On Tuesday, Daily Mail Australia visited Asian grocers in and around the heart of the suburb's busy shopping precinct.

Situated on Hamilton Place, TK Asian Supermarket is by far the largest and most popular of its type.

Two shop attendants told Daily Mail Australia they had never heard of anyone becoming sick from eating mushrooms purchased from their shop.

One of the shopkeepers said the very notion of someone becoming ill from a shop bought dried mushroom seemed 'crazy' to him.

'Yeah, dried, poisonous mushrooms. I don't know about that,' he said.

'We have no idea if she bought them here. I've seen her on the news, but I can't really remember.'

The shopkeeper said none of their mushrooms were labelled in the way Ms Patterson reportedly described her purchase to police.

'She said they were a handwritten, white label and we have never sold that,' he said.

Around the corner, Daily Mail Australia was provided similar answers from both the East Mart and 28 Mart.

East Mart did not even sell dried mushrooms, with the shopkeeper - via use of Google Translate - showing his fridge stocked with only fresh or frozen mushrooms.

28 Mart's dried mushroom products were all neatly labelled, with that shopkeeper also disputing claims poisonous dried mushrooms had been sold in Mount Waverley.

'I sell dried mushrooms, do you want to try?' the shopkeeper asked.

It is not suggested that any of the stores shown sold any poisonous mushrooms.


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Asian grocers deny deadly cook 'bought' fatal fungi from their shops

Asian grocers selling mushrooms in the region that supposedly sold the killer fungi to stay-at-home-mum Erin Patterson deny they are responsible for three deaths.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Poor shop owners

 

[LinasK]

It’s a moot point here since Erin never bought any mushrooms from an Asian store. I don’t recall her saying it was a bag of mixed mushrooms, only that she said she bought fresh sliced mushrooms from Woolworth’s and a bag of dehydrated mushrooms from an Asian market.

But I could be wrong; so much testimony these past weeks may be muddling my memory.

I'm aware, I think that she tried to create the confusion by using two types of mushrooms in her dish. If a grocer were to accidentally sell Death Caps, wouldn't it be more likely to be in mixed box of exotic ones than by themselves?

 

[MsMarple]

I'm aware, I think that she tried to create the confusion by using two types of mushrooms in her dish. If a grocer were to accidentally sell Death Caps, wouldn't it be more likely to be in mixed box of exotic ones than by themselves?

Oh, I see what you’re saying, like a couple death caps got mixed in with edible mushrooms.