Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[Ellery84]

Maybe the messages that Simon alluded to, that in the end stressed Gail out so much that she stopped reading the messages.

Poor Gail. She didn’t deserve any of this.

Erin Erin Erin.

 

[Yh5r]

F

Your post seems to have been edited but wanted to say that I didn't mean a public health effort is a huge waste of resources as such. Of course it's always best to be safe. But the whole effort only came about because EP lied about the source of the mushrooms!! She was fine to throw the "asian grocers' under the bus and for public resources to be wasted knowing that she actually foraged the mushrooms.

And no someone that can pull off a complex beef wellington dish and drive her son to flying lessons and be there on time, doesn't forget about which grocer she bought mushrooms from within the past few weeks/ months. I'm a mum of a similar age myself and it's not something you forget unless you really aren't functioning in your every day life.

 

[Yh5r]

Poor Gail. She didn’t deserve any of this.

Erin Erin Erin.

None of them deserved any of this!

erin erin erin is so telling isn't it

 

[SouthAussie]

Clearly on July 30 at the BP she appeared perfectly well , not using the bathroom, purchasing food and happy for a 3 hour round trip to take her son to flying lessons

Yeah, I know. I was just providing the info because there was the question of if she reported feeling ill on the night of the lunch.

 

[MrJ]

She (the accused) cried when her children were mentioned during the trial, but apparently not (from what I've read) how Don, Gail and Heather were deteriorating and sick before dying horrifically? Sure that could be explained as everyone experiences emotions differently, but it's definitely not a great look IMO

 

[Porky1]

It's much more than resentment, IMO, it's full-blown, intense hatred.

Or just fed up.

I don’t think for a second that Simon is ‘Mr Nice Guy’.

Remaining objective until the decision is handed down…..

 

[Yh5r]

Or just fed up.

I don’t think for a second that Simon is ‘Mr Nice Guy’.

Remaining objective until the decision is handed down…..

It doesn't matter whether he is nice or not. She is the one on trial for murder and none of his actions anywhere near justify was she allegedly has done

 

[Porky1]

Your post seems to have been edited but wanted to say that I didn't mean a public health effort is a huge waste of resources as such. Of course it's always best to be safe.

Agreed re health officer investigation. It’s best to be safe and to be honest, this case aside, there has been cases in AU where there have been some suspicious dried mushrooms in the past.

In this case, I was trying to cancel my response.

I just wish there was a delete option. Sometimes it’s pointless responding when the conversation has moved on.

 

[Spectrix]

However even if it's diarrhea, that's easily induced by anxiety, which she surely would have felt at that time. Or she could have taken laxatives. Diarrhea doesn't point to any mushroom poisoning imo, hopefully the jury sees it the same way.

To be fair to Ms Patterson, she was recovering from eating three dim sims, a hotdog, a coffee, a sweet chilli chicken wrap, a ham, cheese, and tomato sandwich, and an entire bag of sour confectionery... from a food van and a gas station of all places.
You'd think that would give just about anyone a case of the runs.

 

[Porky1]

It doesn't matter whether he is nice or not. She is the one on trial for murder and none of his actions anywhere near justify was she allegedly has done

Of course. It’s absolutely not justified. There is no excuse to cause harm, to anyone.

My opinion changed on day 1 when he was on the stand, he painted a rosy picture, imho, it was laid on a little thick given the circumstances as were his comments re Erin’s relationship with his parents. I am still curious why he did that.

 

[arrogantcat]

Or just fed up.

I don’t think for a second that Simon is ‘Mr Nice Guy’.

Remaining objective until the decision is handed down…..

Yeah, I’m surprised when ppl see the messages as unusual. I’d say the tone and content is very ordinary for a couple going through a somewhat acrimonious separation - certainly no different from what I’ve seen in WhatsApp groups and FB groups etc. She’s venting to friends in a private space, which is an appropriate outlet.

I suspect if we sampled the population we’d find many have said similarly bitchy things in the heat of the moment at some point or another.

I think the prosecution brought the messages to show the accused did have animosity towards (at least some of) the victims. I don’t believe they’ve attempted to paint her as a particularly vicious or vitriolic person at any point.

There are many things in this that have shocked and surprised me, but the messages aren’t really one of them.

 

[SouthAussie]

Of course. It’s absolutely not justified. There is no excuse to cause harm, to anyone.

My opinion changed on day 1 when he was on the stand, he painted a rosy picture, imho, it was laid on a little thick given the circumstances as were his comments re Erin’s relationship with his parents. I am still curious why he did that.

I think Simon did really well in not denigrating the mother of his children, when he testified. Not many people could do that after that person allegedly murdered his aunt and parents.

But maybe his upbringing and his care for his children kept him classy. As it did for Ian Wilkinson also.

If he was so "not nice" Erin could easily have divorced him, and got on with her life. It would have been a no-fault divorce. They had been separated for so long.

But she chose to keep him on a string, and chose to try to draw his parents into her problems that could easily have been sorted out in court with a mediator.

imo

 

[mamamama9873]

Yeah, I’m surprised when ppl see the messages as unusual. I’d say the tone and content is very ordinary for a couple going through a somewhat acrimonious separation - certainly no different from what I’ve seen in WhatsApp groups and FB groups etc. She’s venting to friends in a private space, which is an appropriate outlet.

I suspect if we sampled the population we’d find many have said similarly bitchy things in the heat of the moment at some point or another.

There are many things in this that have shocked and surprised me, but the messages aren’t really one of them.

True!

But Erin crying her crocodile tears in front do the TV reporters and saying “I loved them!” is in stark contrast to these messages and again shows her to be untruthful.

While many people complain about their exes and in laws, they don’t allegedly murder them. In Erin’s case the messages can clearly be seen as a motive for the murder charges.

 

[Warshawski]

I want to make it clear I'm not asserting particular guilt or innocence. IMO EP seems like the sort of person who cannot, or finds it very difficult to, take 'no' for an answer. And a strong sense of feeling scorned by others who see things differently to her. 'Gaslighting', 'abusive', all sorts of "therapy language" that can also be weaponised. Obviously I don't know the full situation, none of us do, but this sort of rage expressed through text is terrifying. IMO JMO

Like you Mr J my response is independent of any ‘case judgement’ and purely my observation of EP.

I think that despite her outward persona of strength & control, she actually suffers from an extreme lack of self esteem / self worth, so extreme that they are suspicious of those around as they subconsciously can’t accept that people are genuine in their engagements.
I think EP possibly ( at least in the past ie church stuff, news letters etc) gives enormously of herself to others but then feels let down by everyone because ( even unwittingly) she really does all this ‘help’ in an attempt to make herself feel better and to gain validation & a sense of worth back from others.
However for people so afflicted they never get ‘enough support’ to help them feel good about themselves so everything is someone else’s fault. ( those not afflicted in that way understand that validation & change needs to come from within one’s self)

Just my own clumsily explained thoughts, and of course I may be totally wrong in my rudimentary psychoanalysis

 

[mamamama9873]

I think Simon did really well in not denigrating the mother of his children, when he testified. Not many people could do that after that person allegedly murdered his aunt and parents.

But maybe his upbringing and his care for his children kept him classy. As it did for Ian Wilkinson also.

If he was so "not nice" Erin could easily have divorced him, and got on with her life. It would have been a no-fault divorce. They had been separated for so long.

But she chose to keep him on a string, and chose to try to draw his parents into her problems that could easily have been sorted out in court with a mediator.

imo

Simon was all class in the stand and again it shows his values over her questionable ones. Also I’m sure he partially did this out of love for his children so while I’m sure he’s not perfect (who is) he is not deserving of a “deadbeat” label

 

[mamamama9873]

Like you Mr J my response is independent of any ‘case judgement’ and purely my observation of EP.

I think that despite her outward persona of strength & control, she actually suffers from an extreme lack of self esteem / self worth, so extreme that they are suspicious of those around as they subconsciously can’t accept that people are genuine in their engagements.
I think EP possibly ( at least in the past ie church stuff, news letters etc) gives enormously of herself to others but then feels let down by everyone because ( even unwittingly) she really does all this ‘help’ in an attempt to make herself feel better and to gain validation & a sense of worth back from others.
However for people so afflicted they never get ‘enough support’ to help them feel good about themselves so everything is someone else’s fault. ( those not afflicted in that way understand that validation & change needs to come from within one’s self)

Just my own clumsily explained thoughts, and of course I may be totally wrong in my rudimentary psychoanalysis

IMO you are spot on. The lending of large amounts of money to Simon’s siblings without charging them interest also fit very well into your analysis.
In her mind she has given so much of herself, when the validation from Simon and the family stopped, she grew very frustrated.

 

[SouthAussie]

Simon was all class in the stand and again it shows his values over her questionable ones. Also I’m sure he partially did this out of love for his children so while I’m sure he’s not perfect (who is) he is not deserving of a “deadbeat” label

Yes. His children know that they are a product of both parents. He doesn't need them growing up thinking they may be like the worst of their mother, better to focus on the good things about their mother in his long-living court testimony.

I am sure they are struggling enough with the allegations against her.

imo

 

[Lisa4]

This may have long since come up, however I only just saw EP's text to Simon re his refusal of the dinner invite, and her very clear desire that he would attend.
The question came to mind - what colour plate would he have been given?? A moot point really at this stage, but if there had been a fifth grey plate intended for him that matched the other guests' plates, she could have used it herself when he didn't show up.

Just curious - how many people really only have 4 of a matching plate?

 

[SouthAussie]

This may have long since come up, however I only just saw EP's text to Simon re his refusal of the dinner invite, and her very clear desire that he would attend.
The question came to mind - what colour plate would he have been given?? A moot point really at this stage, but if there had been a fifth grey plate intended for him that matched the other guests' plates, she could have used it herself when he didn't show up.

Just curious - how many people really only have 4 of a matching plate?

In Australia, many/most dinner sets come in sets of 4. You have to usually buy two sets to bump up the numbers. Unless you buy everything singularly.

imo

 

[ch_13]

Mandy said Erin had lied to the police about foraging for mushrooms.

“She admits that she did forage for mushrooms. Just so that we make that clear, she denies that she ever deliberately sought out death cap mushrooms,” the barrister said.

Alleged mushroom cook didn’t ingest death caps, ‘no record’ she had cancer, jury told: Trial day one, as it happened

Erin Patterson is facing trial after pleading not guilty over a fatal mushroom lunch. Today, Nanette Rogers, SC, will present the prosecution’s case against Patterson.

www.watoday.com.au

At no time (unfortunately we never get just transcripts and can only go by what journalists are relaying to us in part) did he say 'she lied about foraging for mushrooms but still holds that she purchased mushrooms from an Asian grocer somewhere' or anything of the sort. Simply, she lied about foraging and the fact those mushrooms made their way into lunch was a tragic accident.

Snipped.

I'm curious to see what the defense actually claims when it's their turn.

In theory, they could say that Erin didn't lie about the source of the mushrooms. Rather, she picked the death caps, dried them at some time in the past and stored them in her pantry. Later she confused them with some mushrooms she purchased. That's why she told the health officials they came from an Asian grocery.

Something like that wouldn't contradict what Mandy said in his opening statement (based on the reporters' notes). And it would allow them to sidestep claims that she deliberately prevented her in-laws from getting the proper medical treatment.