Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #11 *Arrest*

[Cedars]

- implication is that she inadvertently introduced death caps accidentally foraged at a previous date into the meal unbeknownst to her.

- she then vomits up her meal AND/OR as she is adding dried mushrooms randomly from multiple tuppers, she just happens not to get dosed.

IMO this is the ghist of the defense

- she may have accidently foraged death's cap mushrooms, in spite of being quite knowledgeable about safe vs poisonous mushrooms

- unlike the other mushrooms she foraged, she didn't test or try them

- in spite of constantly adding/sneaking mushrooms into the family's food, the death caps never got into their food

- when making the special recipe, she decided to get even more complicated and make separate and distinct pastries for each guest.

-when making the special recipe, which requires mixing and cooking all the mushrooms together, she never tasted it before constructing the separate pastries.

- She hasn't admitted that she made one recipe of mushrooms to serve to her guests, and a different, non-mushroom recipe to serve to herself and children, although that is what must have happened to completely avoid any toxins.

JMO

 

[MrJ]

It all depends on whether she can keep her story straight and airtight. I personally doubt that imo

 

[Lisa4]

Also, what's the likelihood of a cook who loves mushrooms, to not taste the beef wellington mushroom mixture after it's been sauted?

WOW YES 100%

Brilliant point.

A) as a mushroom lover,
B) as a cook, you'd be tasting it to check salt levels etc

 

[Neet_Mc]

There have been more tears and emotion on display whilst EP has been in the dock over messages she regrets sending than there were when she heard her relatives were hospitalised and later when they died.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What's been implied by her testimony today, I think what they are trying to suggest is:

- she did a lot of foraging as a matter of course.

- she did a lot of dehydrating mushrooms as a matter of course.

- at some point she did pick mushrooms from near an oak tree and these were dehydrated and stored.

- she was in the habit of storing her wild dehydrated mushrooms in a tupperware box and then sprinkling them into things; that box (multiple boxes) would contain a mix of different dehydrated wild mushrooms gathered previously at a range of times.

- for the meal her intention was to use fresh mushrooms from woollies and dried mushrooms from an Asian store. And that this is also what she believed she had done.

- when she purchased the dried asian mushrooms they were smelly so she stored them in a tupperware.

- implication is that she used the fresh mushrooms from woollies as planned, went to grab the dried shop bought ones from the tupperware, confused it with one of her many other tupperwares full of dried mushrooms (or perhaps had stored them all together), inadvertently introduced death caps accidentally foraged at a previous date into the meal unbeknownst to her.

- she then vomits up her meal AND/OR as she is adding dried mushrooms randomly from multiple tuppers, she just happens not to get dosed.

Does it do enough of a job at introducing reasonable doubt? It actually does a pretty good job, imo. After that you are left with explaining her behaviour in the wake of the dinner, which is largely circumstantial actions or could be attributed to guilt.

Do i personally buy it? On balance, I don't. But it's good enough to give me pause, and that's all the defense needs.

Thanks for this really concise summary.
I agree this is what the totality of her story is leaning into and described doubt IMO.

 

[Lisa4]

There have been more tears and emotion on display whilst EP has been in the dock over messages she regrets sending than there were when she heard her relatives were hospitalised and later when they died.

I noticed this too. Tears over herself when watching her own video interview, tears over her own life...

 

[Cedars]

WOW YES 100%

Brilliant point.

A) as a mushroom lover,
B) as a cook, you'd be tasting it to check salt levels etc

Yes, or just that it didn't taste foul like the foul-smelling mushrooms you apparently added.

Who serves a meal to guests that they've never made before, and don't ever taste it?

 

[PinkButtercup]

There have been more tears and emotion on display whilst EP has been in the dock over messages she regrets sending than there were when she heard her relatives were hospitalised and later when they died.

I agree. I don't see any tears in the pre-arrest footage - just a lot of eye rubbing.

MOO

 

[southgoldengirl]

I think she's using a scatter-gun technique, incorporating every excuse.
I would doubt her lawyers have encouraged this and did not support her to take the stand.
Maybe she said don't worry I'll explain it to the judge and jury and they didn't have much choice?

I'm particularly looking forward to the prosecution questions / cross. Especially any explanation of why she lied about ovarian cancer and imagined it could relate to a lump in her elbow.
Also as to how she is explaining the DC mushrooms if she's saying she didn't use foraged mushrooms in the BW. Is she really going to 'go there' with the asian supermarket theory!?

I think she believes that she can fool the jury just as she believes she has fooled most of the people around her like Simon and her in laws. Compulsive liars and manipulators like her have a sense of superiority over being able to trick and fool people when in fact many of their victims don't believe their lies they are just too kind to point them out or can't be bothered with the drama and vengefulness that surrounds these personality types.

Lets hope the jury isn't fooled.

Yes. I can't wait for cross I hope they do a good job

 

[Bats]

She's blaming the Asian grocer I agree. I think she's trying to confuse the jury to create reasonable doubt. It's sure confusing me, I can't keep up with her lies!!!

Neither Erin nor her defence have blamed an Asian grocer.

From the outset they have said it was a tragic accident.

 

[Montrealaise]

What's been implied by her testimony today, I think what they are trying to suggest is:

- she did a lot of foraging as a matter of course.

- she did a lot of dehydrating mushrooms as a matter of course.

- at some point she did pick mushrooms from near an oak tree and these were dehydrated and stored.

- she was in the habit of storing her wild dehydrated mushrooms in a tupperware box and then sprinkling them into things; that box (multiple boxes) would contain a mix of different dehydrated wild mushrooms gathered previously at a range of times.

- for the meal her intention was to use fresh mushrooms from woollies and dried mushrooms from an Asian store. And that this is also what she believed she had done.

- when she purchased the dried asian mushrooms they were smelly so she stored them in a tupperware.

- implication is that she used the fresh mushrooms from woollies as planned, went to grab the dried shop bought ones from the tupperware, confused it with one of her many other tupperwares full of dried mushrooms (or perhaps had stored them all together), inadvertently introduced death caps accidentally foraged at a previous date into the meal unbeknownst to her.

- she then vomits up her meal AND/OR as she is adding dried mushrooms randomly from multiple tuppers, she just happens not to get dosed.

Does it do enough of a job at introducing reasonable doubt? It actually does a pretty good job, imo. After that you are left with explaining her behaviour in the wake of the dinner, which is largely circumstantial actions or could be attributed to guilt.

Do i personally buy it? On balance, I don't. But it's good enough to give me pause, and that's all the defense needs.

It does introduce reasonable doubt, absolutely. However, there are still some things that cannot be explained away easily: first, the fact that she used a different plate for her portion than the one she used for her guests and secondly, the fact that she somehow managed not to get a dose of the poisonous mushrooms. Death cap mushrooms are extremely toxic: even a very small amount will kill you. How does a mixture of mushrooms somehow avoid the poisonous ones?

 

[JBowie]

As for 'accidentally picked', bear in mind that the Victorian government pushes out warnings seasonally and IMO anyone who habitually forages wild mushrooms would be well aware of them:

Poisonous mushrooms growing in Victoria

Poisonous mushrooms including Death Cap mushrooms and Yellow-staining mushrooms occur in Victoria during Autumn, as the weather becomes wetter and cooler.

www.health.vic.gov.au

 

[SouthAussie]

I think she believes that she can fool the jury just as she believes she has fooled most of the people around her like Simon and her in laws. Compulsive liars and manipulators like her have a sense of superiority over being able to trick and fool people when in fact many of their victims don't believe their lies they are just too kind to point them out or can't be bothered with the drama and vengefulness that surrounds these personality types.

Lets hope the jury isn't fooled.

Yes. I can't wait for cross I hope they do a good job

Well, I am not sure that she believes that. But she is going to give it her best shot.

She doesn't seem to have a bevy of friends who are supporting her. So she must understand, at some level, that others don't take too kindly to her words and actions.

imo

 

[whiskia]

It’s not really a challenging/ traumatising life story at all IMO

Yes maybe her birth family wasn’t close to her and she carried some trauma from it but she found a loving man who still supported her after their break up (yet not to the extend she wanted to), she had two healthy children that she was close to. She was left A LOT of money that gave her complete financial freedom.

She could have chosen such a different path for her life past the separation but didn’t.

IMO it’s completely on her what she has chosen to make of it and there is nothing challenging/ traumatising about her adult life

I agree and I think this is all in an effort to make the jury think there could be no reason for intent...

 

[LinasK]

I’m just going to get real with you guys; if I purchased mushrooms and I got them out to cook them and they smelled so pungent that I didn’t feel comfortable putting them in a pasta dish, I would throw them out.

I wouldn’t store them. I wouldn’t put them back in a container. I wouldn’t put them in the pantry, I would throw them in the bin.

I also don’t forage. I was always taught not to touch wild mushrooms and not to eat them. I’m sensible like that.

I’m also going to say that one of the worst decisions Ms Patterson has made during this trial is to take the stand. All my opinion only.

Same here!

 

[LinasK]

Buying a dehydrator to regularly dry Woolworth’s mushrooms doesn’t make sense. It’s a waste of money and time (dehydrate, store and rehydrate)..
Button mushrooms are always available & inexpensive.
(Tho it makes sense to use Woolies mushrooms to test the machine before you dry the mushrooms you spent time searching for foraging. I would expect her to have kept track of which mushrooms she foraged, and from where. So she would know which ones she liked and where to find next time. Using her phone to make a log with photos & location.)

IMO she bought dehydrator for her “little experiment” of making people sick as punishment for withdrawing affection.

Does she mention drying other foods? My neighbor dried fruits, meats jerky style - she was often drying things & sharing. The fruits were seasonal from her garden which made sense to preserve this way.

(Nursing idea might have also been part of strategy to access methods of hurting others. Though possibly not quick enough for ErinErinErin as education & training is long. Possibly wanting to make others sick and then nurse them so they are grateful, can’t leave and love her? IMO … )

My thoughts exactly. My FIL had a dehydrator for tomatoes. And yes, I also thought of the Angel of Death nurses that inject people to kill them (various means- insulin, bleach, paralytic drugs, air).

 

[LinasK]

Her defence have versed her well. She's going to walk, I'm telling you.

Not if the jury picks up on the inconsistencies that we are. She hasn't been cross-examined yet.

 

[iridized]

I think we will have at least two more days of this nonsense before the prosecutors get their shot at her. Her attorneys will not want the jury going into the weekend after she has to answer any of their questions.

 

[LinasK]

Having her on the stand also raises the possibility of bringing up the times Simon was hospitalised with a mysterious gastro illness, crippling pain which many are saying was some fauna poisoning.

How did that get into his system?


If there's any mention of her caring for him when he was ill, the prosecution will be allowed to raise it and possibly bring in further witnesses

At this stage, it's been off-limits as the prosecution didn't pursue the attempted murder charges against Simon.

There are no tears for her in-laws.

She didn't lift a finger to help her victims while they lay dying in the hospital, no phone calls even to the hospital, to Simon. Checking on Mr Wilkinson.

She was only interested in saving her neck. She is a compulsive liar

If she were innocent, and this was just a horrible mistake. She would be genuinely upset, terribly distressed, and not talk about her life history. To get sympathy from the jury

She hasn't shown any hint of remorse or emotion.

She is talking about using her dehydrator now, but originally, she told police she didn't own one.
She raced down to the tip to dump it.

Earlier in the trial, Facebook friends of Erin Patterson told the court that Erin had divulged that she was an atheist.
But now she is a Christian, another 'Brownie points' for the jury

I hope the prosecution request answers regarding her bowel movements or explosive diarrhea, which will certainly give her the sh***..!!
There was a lot of misleading information from her.

What she's been eating as well... including any of the hotdogs, dim sims, sour confectionery, a ham, cheese, and tomato sandwich, a sweet chilli chicken wrap, and plenty of coffee, while racing around in her cream coloured pants

BBM. This above tells me that she didn't have explosive diarrhea that she controlled by sitting in a car.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think we will have at least two more days of this nonsense before the prosecutors get their shot at her. Her attorneys will not want the jury going into the weekend after she has to answer any of their questions.

Yes, I have read about how the prosecution and defence like to leave the jury with particular thoughts over a weekend.
Let those thoughts sink right in, as the last things they heard about.

Hopefully the defence timing wont be able to drag Erin's loooooong story out for 2½ more days.

imo