Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #11 *Arrest*

[Neet_Mc]

I'm starting to see the direction this story is likely heading. She's laying the groundwork by talking about her low self-esteem due to her weight, plans for gastric reduction surgery, and secret bulimia, something she claims no one knew about. That part is probably going to be used to explain why she didn't get as sick as the others because she secretly purged after the meal.

Looks like she will claim she used some of the Tupperware container of dehydrated mushroom mix on the beef Wellingtons, not knowing it contained death cap mushrooms.

But I see some big problems with her story. She threw out the dehydrator and denied ever owning one or foraging for mushrooms when questioned by the police - those actions don’t exactly scream innocence!

She also fed the leftover beef to her kids, claiming she scraped off the mushrooms. But death cap toxins are incredibly potent and can't just be "scraped off, they soak into the food. The kids would have been exposed and incredibly unwell if not worse!

And, if she truly suffers from extreme health anxiety, as she claims, why would she not be in a panic and rush them to the hospital asap? That part makes absolutely no sense to me.

Then there's the issue of her cancer lie. Maybe she’ll try to spin that as the result of health anxiety and self-diagnosis via Google, but it’s a much bigger leap to explain fabricated hospital visits and test results. That's not anxiety that's plain old deliberate deception.

At this point, she's had a couple of years to work on her version of events. It’ll be very interesting to see how she tries to explain away these clear inconsistencies, especially when her story doesn’t match her behavior.

All IMO.

And also avoid giving her kids same food that caused the illness (particularly when not established which part of the meal had made everyone unwell) and been eager to take her kids in to check. Doesn’t. Add. Up.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Stating this again, since it's come up a few times today from a few different posters: there is no safe minimum amount of death caps, and you cannot build up an immunity to them. It is not that kind of toxin.

MOO

Agree 100% … she’s putting it out there as maybe this is why she didn’t get sick. She’s going to talk for hours about nothing but contradictions and untruths and possibilities. Expecting that others give up trying to understand the story. It’s one of the strategies used by compulsive liars … listeners just give up because the liar is throwing out so much irrelevant detail and versions of the story. Agreeing, disagreeing and chopping and changing.

 

[mamamama9873]

Agree 100% … she’s putting it out there as maybe this is why she didn’t get sick. She’s going to talk for hours about nothing but contradictions and untruths and possibilities. Expecting that others give up trying to understand the story. It’s one of the strategies used by compulsive liars … listeners just give up because the liar is throwing out so much irrelevant detail and versions of the story. Agreeing, disagreeing and chopping and changing.

It seems fairly obvious to me that the defense will claim she made herself throw up after the lunch (hence the mention of the bulimia) and that’s why she didn’t get sick.

 

[Neet_Mc]

I knew <well I was pretty sure> she had bulimia because she had those marks on her fingers “Russell’s Sign,” a pattern of calluses on the knuckles or back of the hand due to frequent purging (via self-induced vomiting) over a long period of time.

At the time when I noticed this, I spoke to some women who had gone through bulimia and they recognised the marks on Erin’s hands and knew what they were, and I had discussed those stills of the media videos that showed Erin’s hands and fingers with them, and the women who had the personal knowledge of bulimia and other sleuths and I went back and forth analysing them and discussing what they meant.

Photos can be found in this article, with the marks circled and written about:

Eerie detail in photo of mushroom cook that no one noticed until now

A strange detail on mushroom chef Erin Patterson's hands shows two injuries to the middle finger of her right hand, a cut below the knuckle and an abrasion on the finger's nail bed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Article Credit: Candace Sutton / DMA

The article states
“The more serious-looking injury is situated below the knuckle of her middle right finger.”

“The second injury is around the region of the nail bed of the same finger.”


I know Erin would think no one else knew she had bulimia, and divided this to the court as some type of hidden secret, but once she became infamous, people online started to pay attention to everything she said or did, and in particular the way she looked.

How does the bulimia tie in with the case?

Well, I want to say that Erin was obsessed with mushrooms and also that obsessed with food in general, and her many diet book purchases speak to this obsession, as does the fact that the allegedly texted her friend that she “puts mushrooms in everything.” <Paraphrased.>

I’ve read that many people with eating disorders are actually obsessed with food and that forms a part of their illness.

I think the food dehydrator was just another arm
or tool of her unhealthy obsession with food, of her alleged eating disorder.

But what if the alleged eating disorder grew legs and she started wanting to control or poison what other people ate?

Now it’s no longer bulimia: It’s an eating disorder on steroids. IMO.

I literally have heard everything now. How thing has become a circus!

 

[Warshawski]

she dehydrated what she thought were wild mushrooms but they were death caps unbeknownst to her

But she says she didn’t use any of her foraged mushrooms in the BW.
According to her, she used button mushrooms from Woolworths & some dried ones from the Asian Grocer - so she’s blaming the Asian Grocer ( who’s whereabouts she can’t divulge, although she often buys dried mushrooms from the / an Asian grocer down there ) for having DC in their mix. .. thank goodness EP got that packet, as someone else not as well versed in mushroom identification could have become very ill from eating them - perhaps even die.

 

[JBowie]

that’s great to know. With all the preluding of hospital phobia, imagined diseases and now the bulimia it seems like the lawyers crafted Erin’s story to lay groundwork to make up excuse over excuses for all the question marks in this case

My guess is that she spent hours of her lawyers' time unloading her 'oh, woe is me' life history on them, likely without any prompting at all and they decided to use it all in the desperate hope that some of the jurors might feel sorry for her.

 

[Ellery84]

Did Erin Patterson admit today to being the user “Erin Erin Erin?” and did she admit to sending those unkind messages to her friends about Gail and Don and their family?

 

[Megnut]

It was possibly keyhole for a cartilage trim IMO

And not frightful open-heart knee surgery?

Is there nothing she doesn't dramatize?

 

[mamamama9873]

My guess is that she spent hours of her lawyers' time unloading her 'oh, woe is me' life history on them, likely without any prompting at all and they decided to use it all in the desperate hope that some of the jurors might feel sorry for her.

I don’t think it’s the feeling sorry for her - I will say it again, she is extremely privileged - a wealthy heiress with a man that once loved her and two healthy children she’s close to. She just made extremely poor choices well before the lunch.

But are they starting to create reasonable doubt - a crazy mix of foraged and non foraged mushroom and her belief that exotic mushrooms had so much more taste.

Her prelude to bulimia, will she say she made herself throw up after the meal hence never getting really sick?

Will the dumping of the dehydrator, the lies to the police and reset of phones all be blamed on panic?

 

[Bats]

Did Erin Patterson admit today to being the user “Erin Erin Erin?” and did she admit to sending those offensive and ugly messages to her friends about Gail and Don and their family?

I'm not sure it's ever been in dispute that Erin is the fb user "ErinErinErin".

She wished she'd never used that language to others about her family and obviously never expected the messages to be read by millions of people.

I don't remember reading anyone involved in the fb group was offended by them though.

 

[Two SCents]

DBM

 

[Ellery84]

I'm not sure it's ever been in dispute that Erin is the fb user "ErinErinErin".

She wished she'd never used that language towards her family and obviously never expected the messages to be read by millions of people.

I don't remember reading anyone involved in the fb group was offended by them though.

Changed my wording from offensive to unkind.

 

[katydid23]

I suspect the bulimia will be used by the defence to explain why Erin didn’t get as sick as her guests. I imagine they will probably suggest that she vomited immediately after the lunch and therefore less of the toxins were digested.

No, vomiting after ingesting Death Cap mushrooms will not save someone.

Death Cap mushrooms contain deadly toxins that are absorbed into the body very quickly, even if the person vomits. While vomiting may help remove some of the ingested mushroom matter, the toxins are already being absorbed and will cause significant damage to the liver and kidneys.

Here's why vomiting won't be a solution:

• Rapid Absorption:
  The toxins in Death Cap mushrooms, specifically amatoxins, are absorbed into the bloodstream very quickly. Vomiting may remove some of the mushroom, but the damage has already begun.
• Organ Damage:
  Amatoxins cause severe damage to the liver and kidneys, which can be life-threatening. Vomiting does not address the underlying damage caused by the toxins.
• 
  
• Google Search

 

[katydid23]

But she says she didn’t use any of her foraged mushrooms in the BW.
According to her, she used button mushrooms from Woolworths & some dried ones from the Asian Grocer - so she’s blaming the Asian Grocer ( who’s whereabouts she can’t divulge, although she often buys dried mushrooms from the / an Asian grocer down there ) for having DC in their mix. .. thank goodness EP got that packet, as someone else not as well versed in mushroom identification could have become very ill from eating them - perhaps even die.

No, I think at the last minute, she did throw in a mention of her adding foraged dehydrated mushrooms to her Tupperware which had the Asian dried mushrooms inside it.

So the funny smelling dried Asian ones that she didn't throw away---she added her dehydrated foraged death caps to the funny smelling ones, and used them all in her expensive, home made Beef Wellington.

 

[katydid23]

I don’t think it’s the feeling sorry for her - I will say it again, she is extremely privileged - a wealthy heiress with a man that once loved her and two healthy children she’s close to. She just made extremely poor choices well before the lunch.

But are they starting to create reasonable doubt - a crazy mix of foraged and non foraged mushroom and her belief that exotic mushrooms had so much more taste.

I think that is a bit of a hard sell. So many random coincidences. She had three types of mushrooms, from 3 sources, and she accidentally served Death Caps to her 4 lunch guests, who she had been very angry at for months. And they were the only ones that died ?

She, her 2 kids and her dog were just fine. Her 4 guests severely ill, 3 died.

Her prelude to bulimia, will she say she made herself throw up after the meal hence never getting really sick?

NOPE---apparently vomiting does not prevent Death Caps from killing someone. The toxins are absorbed into the body and the bloodstream almost immediately---so even throwing up does not prevent severe damage in time.

Will the dumping of the dehydrator, the lies to the police and reset of phones all be blamed on panic?

I think all of those lies will hurt the defense, imo.

 

[Lisa4]

So far nothing I have heard makes me think she is an awful person. It just makes her human.
Just a human being with all our complexities and imperfections.
I'm not interested in throwing stones.

Maybe some on the jury might have the same opinion.
I would not be surprised.

With all due respect Tootsie, personally my jaw fell open when I read the first line.

I have only come across two people (one male, one female) in my whole life who were truly their own worst enemies. Both have ended up alienating their families and everyone around them, except their very long-suffering and loyal spouses.

(Editing to add) As casual acquaintances, I never suspected what living nightmares they each were to their respective famiies and anyone under/close to them. It was only when circumstances changed at different times, and I became involved in their lives that I had my eyes opened.

So far, everything I have heard from EP reminds me strongly of those two miserable persons - but she is both rolled into one, plus more.

I am truly seeking to understand your opinion here. Maybe you have never met anyone who seemed okay enough at first but turned out to be truly awful behind the scenes to those closest to them?

 

[Bats]

Will the dumping of the dehydrator, the lies to the police and reset of phones all be blamed on panic?

I think the dumping of the dehydrator and the lies to Police will be blamed on panic. They're the few things that were admitted by Erin's defence team. Lying doesn't mean you're a murderer, is what they're underlining there.

The defence may have other reasons why the phones were reset. Though, they don't need to have any reason really. Frankly, I think they're using the prosecution's evidence to bamboozle the jury with possibilities. I reckon when the jury are deliberating there'll be at least a half day in working out the phones and sims and at some point they'll ask themselves "and what was the point in us doing this again?" If there's a couple of "tech challenged" people in the jury they'll be lost after "Phone A" is mentioned.

The bamboozling tactic worked with me!

 

[Lisa4]

I think the dumping of the dehydrator and the lies to Police will be blamed on panic. They're the few things that were admitted by Erin's defence team. Lying doesn't make you a murderer, is what they're underlining there.

The defence may have other reasons why the phones were reset. Frankly, I think they're trying to bamboozle the jury with possibilities here. I reckon when the jury are deliberating there'll be at least a half day in working out the phones and sims and at some point they'll ask themselves "and what was the point in us doing this again?" If there's a couple of "tech challenged" people in the jury they'll be lost after "Phone A" is mentioned.

The bamboozling tactic worked with me!

Mmm.

There is a chance someone could be bamboozled enough on some points to feel they have "reasonable doubt"...

But at the end of the day, if I was a juror I think I'd still have far weightier "reasonable doubt" about all the coincidences and contradictions!

 

[Bats]

Mmm.

There is a chance someone could be bamboozled enough on some points to feel they have "reasonable doubt"...

But at the end of the day, if I was a juror I think I'd still have far weightier "reasonable doubt" about all the coincidences and contradictions!

Yes, fair point.

I personally think Erin and her side of the story seems to be holding up fairly well so far. Understanding she hasn't had any cross-examinations yet.

 

[Detechtive]

With all due respect Tootsie, personally my jaw fell open when I read the first line.

I have only come across two people (one male, one female) in my whole life who were truly their own worst enemies. Both have ended up alienating their families and everyone around them, except their very long-suffering and loyal spouses.

(Editing to add) As casual acquaintances, I never suspected what living nightmares they each were to their respective famiies and anyone under/close to them. It was only when circumstances changed at different times, and I became involved in their lives that I had my eyes opened.

So far, everything I have heard from EP reminds me strongly of those two miserable persons - but she is both rolled into one, plus more.

I am truly seeking to understand your opinion here. Maybe you have never met anyone who seemed okay enough at first but turned out to be truly awful behind the scenes to those closest to them?

Not helping hospital staff diagnose and treat "her loved ones" makes her an objectively horrible person, even if she is innocent of murder. IMO