Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[TootsieFootsie]

From my reading as compared to not actually looking at EP, I think she is handling the questioning very well.

From my opinion she is listening to the gotchas in the prosecutors words, and not falling for them.

She seems to have an above average understanding of words.

So far there's no sign of what the majority of the public seem to want which is her "cracking"

 

[drsleuth]

12.53pm

In her own words: Accused denies deliberately lacing beef Wellingtons with death caps​

By​

Senior Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers is moving quickly, showing the accused woman several images.

She directs Erin Patterson to a photograph of a woman standing by a bed at Leongatha hospital. Sitting atop the bed is a black bag with what appears to be a pink phone case sitting atop it.

Patterson has agreed that the woman in the photograph was her, and the phone inside a pink case was hers, too.

Rogers pulls up another image of electronic scales with a dehydrator tray on a kitchen bench obtained from one of her devices that was seized by police. Erin has agreed that it looks like her scales and her kitchen bench.

In the left-hand corner, there’s a small tag. “I don’t know what it is,” Patterson said.

Rogers said she suggested it was the same phone captured in the CCTV still.

“It could be, I don’t know,” Patterson said.

Patterson agreed that most, if not all, the images Rogers has shown her were taken on or after April 28, 2023.

Rogers: You knew that if you told police the truth you would be immediately suspected by police of being involved in a poisoning bid.

Patterson: That’s probably true yes.

Rogers: I suggest that you had been dehydrating death cap mushrooms on or after the day of the purchase of the dehydrator to for the purpose of putting in the beef Wellingtons you served to your four guests at the lunch.

Patterson: That’s not correct.

Rogers: You intended to serve one of those beef Wellingtons to Simon if he came to the lunch.

Patterson: If he had come I would have given him a beef Wellington too, yes, but not one with death cap mushrooms in it intentionally.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

7m ago12.50 AEST

Patterson: ‘I lied because I was afraid I would be held responsible’​

Rogers says Patterson dehydrated mushrooms, including ones she knew to be death cap mushrooms.

“No, that’s not correct,” Patterson says.

Rogers put to Patterson:



Patterson says:



Rogers says to Patterson:



“That’s not correct,” Patterson replies.

3m ago03.54 BST
Rogers returns to Patterson’s formal police interview. She takes Patterson to her answer where she denied she had foraged for mushrooms or “anything like that”.

Patterson says this was a lie.

Rogers takes Patterson to conversations she had with her Facebook friends in a group chat, including the wide-ranging topics they messaged about.

Rogers says: “Do you agree you never told any of these Facebook friends you had foraged for mushrooms?”

“I don’t know if I did or I didn’t,” Patterson says. “I don’t know if I told them or not.”

Rogers asks if Patterson discussed cooking wild mushrooms with her Facebook friends.

“I don’t know,” she says. Patterson says it was a group chat for four years and she cannot remember everything the women talked about.

Rogers says one of the Facebook friends Jenny Hay has testified that Patterson never discussed foraging for wild mushrooms in the group chat.

Patterson says Hay “might be right”.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

It's very strange that she told her online FB friends everything about cooking with mushrooms, drying mushrooms etc, but omitted to mention that she had been foraging for mushrooms...

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Erin says she doesn't recall denying foraging mushrooms​

Erin's asked about previous evidence from another senior doctor at Monash Health, Rhonda Stuart, who saw Ms Patterson days after the lunch.

The doctor previously told the court she asked Erin where she had bought the mushrooms in the meal from but Erin was unable to tell her specifically.

Professor Stuart previously told the court she had asked Erin "if she'd been mushrooming and if she'd used any other mushrooms" but Erin told her no, she'd only used the two types of mushrooms described, from Woolworths and the Asian grocer.

"Do you accept that Professor Stuart asked you if you'd been mushrooming?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I accept that that's what she said," Ms Patterson says.

"Did you, in effect, say no to Professor Stuart?"

"To which question?"

"If you'd been mushrooming."

"I don't remember that conversation."

Dr Rogers suggests that in that conversation, Erin denied going mushrooming to Professor Stuart.

"I don't remember the conversation," Erin repeats.

 

[L_B]

From my reading as compared to not actually looking at EP, I think she is handling the questioning very well.

From my opinion she is listening to the gotchas in the prosecutors words, and not falling for them.

She seems to have an above average understanding of words.

So far there's no sign of what the majority of the public seem to want which is her "cracking"

yes she is being very crafty in her answers...

 

[MrJ]

1m ago
Prosecution continues on Erin's conversation at hospital

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers suggests that Erin lied to the doctor about mushrooming.

Erin responds that "nobody was interested in what I did months and years ago" during those conversations, and that everything was all centred specifically on the meal.

"Are you telling this jury that you understood Professor Stuart to be asking you questions only about the beef Wellington?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I believe that's what I understood at the time, yes," Erin says.

1m ago
Lunch break called
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Justice Beale jumps in and calls for a lunch break.

We'll be back after 2pm with more coverage from the prosecution's cross-examination of accused killer Erin Patterson.

 

[drsleuth]

1.03pm

Online chats and discussions about wild mushrooms​

By​

The line of questioning in courtroom 4 in Morwell has now shifted. Nanette Rogers, the senior Crown prosecutor in the case, is now asking about the accused woman’s interactions with online friends with whom she shared a group chat.

Patterson, in the witness box from the morning, told the lawyer that she spoke to her Facebook friends about the things she cooked, her children and her feelings about her estranged husband, Simon, but not about her unhappiness about Simon and his family wanting the children to go to a religious school, or her being an atheist.

She said she did not know if she had discussed cooking wild mushrooms with them.

“I might have, I don’t know. It was a group chat for four years, I can’t remember everything we talked about,” she said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au

 

[LinasK]

We don't know anything about the lighting either. Or the glaze of the ceramics. Were they glossy, matt, earthen, rustic? Did they have a tint?

I have no reason to disbelieve a woman who died a horrible death from a meal served by her relative about her recollections about the plates. Unfortunately its now only alleged that she said this about the plates the meals were served on. Who said four plates were grey? Was it Heather or Ian? Some people notice colours, some don't. My other half and I disagree about what colour things are often. The difference between aqua and turquoise is a long running family joke.
I would hazard a guess that Heather did indeed notice the plates not matching. Can we 100% state without doubt that what has been relayed to us 2nd and third hand is a dictation verbatim?

These are likely questions the jurors will be faced with. Just what is presented in court, not us here theorising and placing our own personal lens over the 2nd hand summary transcripts.
Being a juror is a massive responsibility with very strict rules. One juror has already been dismissed. Its a heavy burden and the pressure of this particular trial is gigantic.

The point is that Heather noticed that the guests plates- be they light grey or whatever color were noticeably different in color/pattern from Erin's and probably not for any innocent reason. Why not use the more distinctive and memorable black & white ones?

 

[drsleuth]

9 minutes ago - 12:59 PMMax Corstorphan

Erin Patterson ‘did pick wild mushrooms’ before fatal lunch​

Ms Patterson told the court: “I did pick wild mushrooms.”

She admitted to picking wild mushrooms between April 28 and the fateful lunch.

This evidence came despite Ms Patterson allegedly telling police and health authorities that she didn’t.

Those mushrooms were foraged from Ms Patterson’s property, the “botanical gardens” and potentially a rail track, the accused told the court.

Just now - 01:07 PMMax Corstorphan

‘Going mushrooming’: The question Erin Patterson doesn’t remember​

Erin Patterson has been grilled on answers she gave to Professor Rhonda Stuart from Monash Health about “mushrooming”, meaning the exercise of going out and looking for mushrooms.

“Do you accept that Professor Stuart asked you if you’d been mushrooming?” Dr Rogers of the prosecution asked.

“I accept that that’s what she said,” Ms Patterson replied.

The prosecution asked whether “in effect” Ms Patterson said “no” to “going mushrooming”.

“I don’t remember that conversation,” Ms Patterson told the court, adding that some questions she answered only in the context of the fatal lunch.

Ex ‘would have had beef Wellington too’ if he’d come

LIVE UPDATES: Erin Patterson says she would have served ex-husband Simon Patterson a beef Wellington, too, if he had turned up to the deadly lunch.

thenightly.com.au

 

[Detechtive]

Erin picked wild mushrooms in months before lunch​

Dr Rogers asks if Erin picked wild mushrooms on or after April 28, 2023.
“I did,” Erin says, adding it was from her Leongatha home, the rail trail and botanic gardens.
“They might not all be after the 28th of April (2023) … there’s a period of time when mushrooms grow and I cannot say particularly what was done before or after 28th of April, but in that period.”
Dr Rogers seeks clarification and Erin confirms she did pick wild mushroom after April 28 but before the lunch.
The prosecutor then asks if that meant that she had knowingly lied to doctors at Monash Medical Centre when they asked if she had foraged for mushrooms.
Erin says that is not what she was asked by doctors, instead insisting they had specifically asked if she had used foraged mushrooms in the meal, and she denied she had.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

1m ago
Prosecution continues on Erin's conversation at hospital

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers suggests that Erin lied to the doctor about mushrooming.

Erin responds that "nobody was interested in what I did months and years ago" during those conversations, and that everything was all centred specifically on the meal.

"Are you telling this jury that you understood Professor Stuart to be asking you questions only about the beef Wellington?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I believe that's what I understood at the time, yes," Erin says.

1m ago
Lunch break called
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Justice Beale jumps in and calls for a lunch break.

We'll be back after 2pm with more coverage from the prosecution's cross-examination of accused killer Erin Patterson.

Erin said.. Erin responds that "nobody was interested in what I did months and years ago" during those conversations, and that everything was all centred specifically on the meal.

She is starting to feel the pressure..! This is what Dr Rogers wants to see

 

[Bats]

Erin seems to be handling the cross-examination well so far, I my opinion.

She has obviously been well tutored by her team on how to answer the questions. I'm sure they'd be happy with their decision to recommend she take the stand and testify (my speculation only).

Just my opinion and observations.

 

[Detechtive]

The point is that Heather noticed that the guests plates- be they light grey or whatever color were noticeably different in color/pattern from Erin's and probably not for any innocent reason. Why not use the more distinctive and memorable black & white ones?

It's also well known that people have a different perception of colours on the blue/green spectrum, not monotones.

 

[LinasK]

It feels like she was on the cusp of the perfect murder. If she just, from day 1, announced "OMG I FED THEM FORAGED MUSHROOMS! YOU DON'T SUPPOSE I MISIDENTIFIED THEM??", then the cops would have had the darndest time proving she intended harm. She could have handed over the contaminated dehydrator, self-submitted all the photos and chats about her experiments with dried mushrooms ("If I intended to kill them, why would I discuss it with my true crime friends?"), seemingly entirely cooperative with the investigation, and I think it would have gone down as a tragic accident (although SP and others may have suspected otherwise).

Foiled by her own deceptive nature.

She's trying to have it both ways- couldn't have been the mushrooms (because it wasn't the Woolworths or any Asian mushrooms that were toxic), and at the same time act like the Death Caps weren't in it because they weren't visible, but maybe she "accidentally" added them.

 

[Detechtive]

Erin seems to be handling the cross-examination well so far, I my opinion.

She has obviously been well tutored by her team on how to answer the questions. I'm sure they'd be happy with their decision to recommend she take the stand and testify (my speculation only).

Just my opinion and observations.

It is highly doubtful that they recommended that she testified. That would more than likely been her decision, in which case they would have told her that she is going to need to fess up to a lot of the lies if she is to have a shot at appearing credible, which, IMO, she has no chance at.

 

[L_B]

“I don’t remember that conversation,” Ms Patterson told the court, adding that some questions she answered only in the context of the fatal lunch.

Doesn't recall the conversation, but knows she would have only answered in the very specific context of the meal

 

[drsleuth]

3m ago23.11 EDT
Rogers says Prof Rhonda Stuart, a doctor at Monash Health, testified that she had asked Patterson while she was in hospital if she had been “mushrooming” in the days after the lunch. She also asked Patterson if she used any other fungi besides store-bought ones in the beef wellington, the court heard.

Stuart said Patterson replied “no” and said she only used mushrooms from Woolworths and an Asian grocer, the court hears.

Rogers says: “Do you accept Prof Stuart asked you if you had been mushrooming?”

“I accept that’s what she said,” Patterson replies.

Patterson says she cannot remember the conversation with Stuart.

Rogers suggests Patterson lied to Stuart. Patterson says she was only asked about what was in the beef wellington.

“Nobody was interested in what I did months, years ago,” Patterson says. “I would have answered any questions in that context.”

Patterson says at the time she understood Stuart was only asking her questions about the beef wellington dish.

4m ago23.11 EDT
The court has adjourned for a break.

Patterson’s cross-examination will resume from 2.15pm.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bats]

It is highly doubtful that they recommended that she testified. That would more than likely been her decision, in which case they would have told her that she is going to need to fess up to a lot of the lies if she is to have a shot at appearing credible, which, IMO, she has no chance at.

Yes, not disagreeing that it was her decision. But I am super confident that it was on her team's recommendation to do that.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

1m ago
Prosecution continues on Erin's conversation at hospital

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers suggests that Erin lied to the doctor about mushrooming.

Erin responds that "nobody was interested in what I did months and years ago" during those conversations, and that everything was all centred specifically on the meal.

"Are you telling this jury that you understood Professor Stuart to be asking you questions only about the beef Wellington?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I believe that's what I understood at the time, yes," Erin says.

1m ago
Lunch break called
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Justice Beale jumps in and calls for a lunch break.

We'll be back after 2pm with more coverage from the prosecution's cross-examination of accused killer Erin Patterson.

Erin responds that "nobody was interested in what I did months and years ago" during those conversations, and that everything was all centred specifically on the meal.

Yet, she told her online FB friends that she purchased the dehydrator in April 2023, so why shouldn't she mention that she went foraging in/after April?


"On or after 28 April, 2023, and before the lunch, did you pick wild mushrooms?" Dr Rogers asks Erin Patterson.

"I did," Erin says.

She says that was from her own Leongatha property, from the Korumburra Botanic Gardens and from the rail trail coming out of Leongatha.

"They might not all be after the 28th of April [2023]," she says.

"There's a period of time when mushrooms grow and I cannot say particularly what was done before or after 28th of April. But in that period."

Dr Rogers confirms that Erin picked wild mushrooms after April 28 but before the lunch, and Erin says this is correct."

 

[drsleuth]

1.09pm

Patterson grilled over what she told doctors after the fatal lunch​

By​

Senior Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers moves on to questions about what she told doctors after the beef Wellington lunch.

Rogers has asked Patterson about a conversation she had with Dr Laura Muldoon, a toxicologist at Monash Hospital, about 4pm on July 31, 2023, where she was asked about whether she had used wild mushrooms in the beef Wellington.

The prosecutor said Dr Muldoon’s evidence was that you denied using either foraged mushrooms or wild mushrooms.

“I did say that. I didn’t think it was a lie at the time, though,” she said.

Asked by Rogers whether she had picked wild mushrooms on or after April 28, 2023, Patterson said she had done so.

“From my own property at Gibson Street, from the botanic gardens at Korumburra, and from the rail trail coming out of Leongatha. They might not all be after the 28th of April, I’m not sure,” she said.

Rogers is referring Erin to evidence by Department of Health official Professor Rhonda Stuart, where she described speaking to the mother of two about the source of the dried mushrooms she had used in the beef Wellington.

In the evidence, Stuart said she had asked Patterson if she had been mushrooming and whether she had used any other mushrooms, but she had responded that she had only used the two types of mushrooms that she had described.

Rogers: You accept that Professor Stuart asked you if you had been mushrooming?
Patterson: I accept that’s what she said.
Rogers: Did you in fact, say “no” to Professor Stuart.
Patterson: To which question?
Patterson: If you’d been mushrooming.
Patterson: I don’t remember that conversation.
Rogers: What I am suggesting is that when you were asked the question by Professor Stuart, had you been mushrooming, you said “no”.
Patterson: I don’t remember that conversation.
Roger: I suggest you answered that question by saying “no”.
Patterson: I might have, I don’t remember the conversation.
Rogers: I suggest that was a lie, that you told Professor Stuart that you had not been mushrooming.
Patterson: What I remember of all the questions being asked of me by various people in the hospital was in the context of the meal. No one was interested in what I was doing months ago.
Rogers: So your evidence before this jury is that you understood Professor Stuart to be asking you questions only about the beef Wellington.
Patterson: I believe that’s what I understood at the time.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 27 as it happened: ‘You thought the lunch guests would die’: A rare invitation and a ‘lie about cancer’

It was rare for Erin Patterson to host guests; having four people over for a meal was not an ordinary, casual event for the mother of two.

www.theage.com.au