Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[Kemug]

I think Heather was quickly suspicious. There must have been some reason that she even considered the fact that Erin had a "different coloured plate" might be relevant. Relevant enough to mention to Simon.

Heather likely wouldn't have been thinking "accidental" if she was already wondering about the plate. I wondered why her mind jumped to suspicion, if things were okay.

Clever lady, Heather. RIP

 

[dalsglen]

Erin is then taken to a message where she wondered why Gail Patterson didn't reflect more on her "deadbeat" son.

Erin: I was frustrated.

Rogers: And hurt?

Erin: I don't think hurt is reflected in this message. I was frustrated.

SBBM wonder if Nanette Rogers had a smirk on her face when saying this?

 

[LenaOdenthal]

IMO it was frankly bizarre to do a visual check for poison when lab testing can check for actual poison. What was that about? I am not a detective or poison expert but all the same!

Most cases of suspected or potential mushroom toxicity would be accidental, mistaken identiity of foraged varieties. That's why the mycologists have an on-call system, I guess - most times, the meal leftovers they are asked to examine contain mushrooms that have been chopped up and cooked, and a visual inspection under the microscope is a quick way to get pointed in the right direction for what kind of toxin may be involved. Toxicology tests take longer and are more expensive, I bet.

Cases of the mushrooms having been pulverised beyond visual inspection must be much rarer.

 

[Bats]

RSBM
This saying "Incorrect" really riles me. It sounds so arrogant. Does she ever say "No I didnt" or "No, that's not true!"

I know what you mean but I think Dr Rogers is prompting that response from Erin sometimes by saying "correct or incorrect?"

"I suggest that you didn't love them. Correct or incorrect?" Dr Rogers asks.

"That's not true," Erin responds.

Dr Rogers puts to Erin that she was angry about Gail and Don taking Simon's side in the dispute over finances.

"That's not true," Erin says.

Dr Rogers puts to Erin that this feeling of anger continued.

"Incorrect," Erin says

 

[Jess D]

I think the actual nastiest creatures have two legs.

One of them is charged with murdering 3 people with Death Cap mushrooms and attempting to kill a 4th person.

 

[Woolly]

IMO it was frankly bizarre to do a visual check for poison when lab testing can check for actual poison. What was that about? I am not a detective or poison expert but all the same!

I think a visual inspection is faster which is why they started there. But I’m glad they did it that way. I think that evidence is key. Someone who accidentally adds death caps would treat them the same as other mushrooms. And Erin testified that she (kind of) rehydrated them and added them in with the others.

However, not seeing any death caps on visual inspection but finding evidence of their toxins in the lab implies that they were powdered. Which to me, means they were being hidden in the meal. And shows that Erin lied about how she prepared the Wellingtons since she didn’t mention powdered mushrooms at all. It negates the whole story of the mixed up stinky Tupperware mushrooms.

 

[browneyes]

Al

Also, somewhat dismissive with her use of 'yeah . . .'

I find her responses very disrespectful.

 

[SouthAussie]

I find her responses very disrespectful.

Though the prosecutor is doing a good job of showing the other side of Erin's personality. The jury needs to see that, after her court testimony elicited by her own lawyer.

imo

 

[dothetime]

Have just noticed something extremely odd in the video interview of Erin standing by the driver's door of the red car in her carport, and being asked "can you tell us about the lunch?"

EP is wiping away 'tears' saying: Ian and heather
have passed away, and Gail ... Don is still in hospital.

Clearly, she had the names wrong as Ian had not passed away, as we know. At the end of the video she repeats the mistake!

Any one else notice this?

 

[browneyes]

Though the prosecutor is doing a good job of showing the other side of Erin's personality. The jury needs to see that, after her court testimony elicited by her own lawyer.

imo

Oh I agree. She is showing her true colors.

 

[JBowie]

I find her responses very disrespectful.

Well of course. I mean how dare anyone question her integrity?

 

[Bats]

I think Heather was quickly suspicious. There must have been some reason that she even considered the fact that Erin had a "different coloured plate" might be relevant. Relevant enough to mention to Simon.

Heather likely wouldn't have been thinking "accidental" if she was already wondering about the plate. I wondered why her mind jumped to suspicion, if things were okay.

I think its fair that the curiosity and suspicion around the plates started with Heather's comment to Simon.

Was Heather really suspicious or was it simply a remark that has manifested into something bigger? I can definitely imagine someone that is awfully sick trying to think of reasons, no doubt about that.
I'm not sure that Heather would be wondering if the food poisoning was either "accidental" or "intentional" though.
JMO

 

[Melt71]

I know what you mean but I think Dr Rogers is prompting that response from Erin sometimes by saying "correct or incorrect?"

"I suggest that you didn't love them. Correct or incorrect?" Dr Rogers asks.

"That's not true," Erin responds.

Dr Rogers puts to Erin that she was angry about Gail and Don taking Simon's side in the dispute over finances.

"That's not true," Erin says.

Dr Rogers puts to Erin that this feeling of anger continued.

"Incorrect," Erin says

Interesting the lawyer isn't being pulled up for leading, as he's offering her 2 answers and not allowing her to answer of her own accord.

 

[ch_13]

Interesting the lawyer isn't being pulled up for leading, as he's offering her 2 answers and not allowing her to answer of her own accord.

The rules of cross-examination are different than direct examination. In almost all jurisdictions attorneys are permitted to ask leading questions on cross.

Edit - Also, FYI...The prosecuting attorney, Nanette Rogers, is a woman, not a man.

 

[Little Jack]

Replying to my own post:

“Dr Gerostamoulos said the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine tested meat, pastry and mushroom paste samples from beef Wellington located in Ms Patterson’s bin after the lunch.

In three of four mushroom paste samples no alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxins were found, but in one sample they detected beta-amanitin.

Beta-amanitin toxins were also detected in one meat sample, he said.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-alleged-mushroom-poisoner-was-ill-intensive-care-specialist-tells-court/news-story/2a1417ea5465148399f0c13da4735ad2

If Erin’s testimony is that she added the Asian grocery store bought “Chinese mushrooms” (her words) from a Tupperware container that also may have been mixed with her own foraged mushrooms, why were there no shiitake/porcini or other exotic mushrooms traces found in the leftovers along with the Woolworths field mushrooms? I mean what are the chances that she accidentally foraged death caps and bought death caps from the Asian grocery store?!

According to Mycologist, Dr Truong:
"The mushroom I identified is called a field mushroom ... this is the typical mushrooms that you find in a supermarket," Dr Truong said.
"That is the only mushroom that I found in this food item."

Dumped food dehydrator shown to mushroom murder trial

Footage has been shown at a murder trial of a woman dumping a food dehydrator at a tip,...

www.illawarramercury.com.au

Dried mushrooms need a good soak to rehydrate too, not just a quick dash of water. They would have been as rubbery and chewy as old boots and even finely chopped easily identified in a forensic analysis.

Patterson said that as she was cooking the duxelles down, she tasted it a few times, but it tasted a bit bland, so she decided to add the mushrooms she had bought from the grocer in Melbourne to the mixture she still had in her pantry.

“I roughly poured water over them to get the crispness out of them. I chopped them up and sprinkled them over the duxelles and pushed them in,” she said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 26 as it happened: Mushroom cook says fear of estranged husband’s actions led to phone resets; details dumping food dehydrator at local tip after fatal lunch

Erin Patterson has told a court her estranged husband asked her if she had used a dehydrator to poison his parents, and admitted resetting her phone out of fear police would discover photos she had of foraged mushrooms.

www.smh.com.au

I call complete BS on this tale, I believe she dehydrated and finely ground death caps, well ahead of the lunch, and sprinkled them over instead.

Excellent point. Where are the other mushrooms from the so called Asian grocery... this coupled with the fact that she didnt even mention the Asian grocery at first only woolies makes everything she has said impossible.

I hope this is highlighted in closing. We all suspected the Asian grocery story was a red herring but this proves it in my opinion.

 

[CityKid]

The rebuttal of other's evidence I agree with and possibly also the clarification of the intentions behind the meal.

However her alleged bulimia and supposed gastric bypass was brought up willingly by her as a defence witness. If these claims could be substantiated by experts, then it might increase her credibility?

In what way would evidence of bulimia or a gastric bypass increase her credibility?

 

[CityKid]

She might be on MasterChef " Inside Edition"

The crossover show I never knew I needed!

 

[Megnut]

She can't remember where the Asain market is because she never went to one.

JMO

 

[CityKid]

I have noticed people quibble about semantics when their argument isn’t strong, it’s like they are trying to stall, deflect, distract or take the argument in a different direction to avoid addressing the contested issue.

IMO it's like toddlers. "Did you take the cookie?" "No." (Secretly thinking, "I ATE the cookie so I'm not lying.")

 

[CityKid]

Just pushing up my previous post from before as it got lost between the court updates.

I'm wondering if we do know that an untouched serving of beef wellington landed in the bin?

If so, then this is really in stark contrast to how Erin usually acts:
- The fruit platter and gravy were still in the fridge from the lunch when police had a search warrant which I believe was days later! Why throw out the beef wellington but keep fruit and gravy - makes zero sense, unless..
- She had to use the unlabelled package of mushrooms from a mysterious 'Asian shop' that smelled funny, but threw out a serving of beef wellington that she had spent 'a fortune on'...
- Which leftovers did she then scrape the mushrooms off from and fed to her children...

Thoughts?

BBM. The son testified that it was meat, cut into cubes, not in pastry, and served with potatoes and beans.
From my link:
"Patterson’s son: “The meat - it was very soft and it was probably one of the best meals I’ve ever had actually.”

Interviewer: “Was it beef, pork, chicken?”

Patterson’s son: “Beef. I think it was eye fillet.”

Interviewer: “And how was it cut?”

Patterson’s son: “I think it was a block cut up into cubes. Maybe 5cm (cubes).”

‘He did things to hurt mum’: Erin Patterson’s son reveals his parents’ disputes

Erin Patterson is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au