Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #13 *Arrest*

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  • #761
Obviously we are not in the room and cannot hear her tone or see her body language, but from here it looks like Erin had a spectacularly bad day today. I had actually previously been quite impressed by her performance, although it hadn't changed my personal opinion as to her guilt or not.
 
  • #762
They *had* to put her on the stand though I think? There was no other way to refute the voluminous evidence. But. Erin is her own worst enemy. So many of her very specific answers are problematic. I think my favorite so far is the one about ‘mushrooming’ vs ‘foraging’ not being recognizable as the same thing. I mean … really?
 
  • #763
Obviously we are not in the room and cannot hear her tone or see her body language, but from here it looks like Erin had a spectacularly bad day today. I had actually previously been quite impressed by her performance, although it hadn't changed my personal opinion as to her guilt or not.

She sure did.
I imagine Erin is must be mentally exhausted after so many days on cross and I get the feeling that she's becoming increasingly desperate and frustrated.
Prosecutor Rogers isn't even close being finished with her yet. Is she leaving the best until last?

How I would love to be in that court room in the coming days!

.
 
  • #764
She sure did.
I imagine Erin is must be mentally exhausted after so many days on cross and I get the feeling that she's becoming increasingly desperate and frustrated.
Prosecutor Rogers isn't even close being finished with her yet. Is she leaving the best until last?

How I would love to be in that court room in the coming days!

.
I don’t blame the Prosecution playing the long game and allowing her persona to be exposed to all in that Courtroom as each day passes. I still think Simon is her emotional Achilles heel and a sure way to get under her skin a little bit more.
 
  • #765
I think she’s doing what she wants. Her lawyers are probably over her arrogance.

Agree. She dabbled in legal studies I believe. Thinks she knows it all.

And I think: There is something very “twisted-fairytale” in all of this.
Yes, interesting analogy! I likened it to an Agatha Christie novel. And since the latest performance I've been pinching myself to remember this is real, not a new courtroom comedy act.

It really does seem to me like she struggles to gauge fiction from reality.

She sure did.
I imagine Erin is must be mentally exhausted after so many days on cross and I get the feeling that she's becoming increasingly desperate and frustrated.
Prosecutor Rogers isn't even close being finished with her yet. Is she leaving the best until last?

How I would love to be in that court room in the coming days!

.

Agree. Given the intense pressure, an extremely dramatic scene in court seems increasingly likely to me.
 
  • #766
I would suggest even the concept of truth baffles EP.

Key Event
1m ago
Health worker's evidence 'baffles' Ms Patterson

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers says about this time, Erin Patterson was feeling "stressed" about people "figuring out" that she had included death cap mushrooms in the meal.

Ms Patterson says this is incorrect.

She's then asked about a conversation with another nurse during that morning, when they told the trial they'd expressed concern to her about her children's health if they'd eaten leftovers from the meal.

Ms Patterson says she doesn't recall the conversation at all and the evidence of the health worker "baffles me a little bit ... I think her times are out a little bit".

The nurse gave evidence that Ms Patterson became teary while discussing her children and the health risk and was telling the nurse she didn't want to involve them.

Ms Patterson says that doesn't make sense because her estranged husband would have been on the way to pick up the children by this point in time.

The nurse told the trial that a doctor then joined the conversation and reassured Ms Patterson that the treatment would help her and her children.

"I dispute the timing of that conversation," Ms Patterson says.
She has disputed everything. If she could, she would even dispute three of her guests are dead.
 
  • #767
Her (alleged) narc rage can’t withstand forensic examination. Dr Rogers will keep probing and poking just as she’s doing fantastically and EP will snap. And it will be glorious
 
  • #768
Her (alleged) narc rage can’t withstand forensic examination. Dr Rogers will keep probing and poking just as she’s doing fantastically and EP will snap. And it will be glorious
Even just peeks behind the curtain will be enough for the jury.

Prosecution is exposing her and she doesn't even know it.

Glorious indeed!
 
  • #769
1749587382433.webp

I wish we had thread titles here because ‘combative, evasive, hostile and uncooperative’ is hilarious
 
  • #770
So the son is lying now too according to her.............. and she has black plates.




Rogers: “You served yourself on a coloured plate? Correct or incorrect?”

Patterson: “I didn’t serve myself at all.”

Patterson: “I don’t have five plates the same. So everyone would have had different plates. I don’t have four plates the same either.

Rogers said Patterson’s son gave evidence that when he returned to the house from the movies, he stacked white dishes up from the lunch and put them in the dishwasher.

Patterson said she didn’t have white dessert plates, and she believes her dessert plates are black.
How did she not serve herself at all? Can someone explain what she means?
 
  • #771
How did she not serve herself at all? Can someone explain what she means?
Hers must have fallen on her plate, like a gentle rain on a prairie of nontoxic wildflowers.
 
  • #772
Whoops!

1749587807962.webp
 
  • #773
They *had* to put her on the stand though I think? There was no other way to refute the voluminous evidence. But. Erin is her own worst enemy. So many of her very specific answers are problematic. I think my favorite so far is the one about ‘mushrooming’ vs ‘foraging’ not being recognizable as the same thing. I mean … really?
Defendants who are accused of murder very rarely take the stand and Erin's testimony on cross-examination shows why. There are only two reasons for her to take the stand: her attorneys were desperate and felt the evidence against her was overwhelming, so they had her testify as a kind of last-ditch Hail Mary move.

The other reason is this: while defense attorneys can decide whether or not putting their clients on the stand is a good or bad idea, ultimately it's up to the client to decide. All the lawyers can do is advise, counsel or persuade - but if their client is hell-bent on taking the stand and won't listen to reason, there's nothing the attorney can do. A narcissistic defendant who thinks she's so much smarter than anyone, even her own lawyers - it can and does happen.
 
  • #774
You would hope they went through every photo on her phones & laptop to look for those grey plates. Perhaps she beat them to it by resetting the phones?
Four times! 😬😂
 
  • #775
I was thinking about that today. She was in Peri menopause territory at 47-48 when she was allegedly planning these murders, and I wondered whether a menopause induced psychosis was possible.

She doesn’t appear to have been in a psychotic state because she took actions calmly in some instances, but these are the warning signs pre psychosis.

A person will often show changes in their behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

  • Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
  • Trouble thinking clearly and logically
  • Withdrawing socially and spending a lot more time alone
  • Unusual or overly intense ideas, strange feelings, or a lack of feelings
  • Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
  • Disruption of sleep, including difficulty falling asleep and reduced sleep time
  • Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
  • Confused speech or trouble communicating
  • Sudden drop in grades or job performance
Alongside these symptoms, a person with psychosis may also experience more general changes in behavior that include:

  • Emotional disruption
  • Anxiety
  • Lack of motivation
  • Difficulty functioning overall
In some cases, a person experiencing a psychotic episode may behave in confusing and unpredictable ways and may harm themselves or become threatening towards others.

That sounds spot on. I didn’t know that menopause could induce a psychotic episode. Thank you for sharing your insights.
 
  • #776
Not "someone", everyone.

But disagreeing with someone/everyone is a completely different proposition to saying they're lying. They're two very different things.

If my recollection when catching up friends was that i was wearing a green shirt but they all think I was wearing a red shirt, I don't refer to them as liars or think they are lying.
 
  • #777
They *had* to put her on the stand though I think? There was no other way to refute the voluminous evidence. But. Erin is her own worst enemy. So many of her very specific answers are problematic. I think my favorite so far is the one about ‘mushrooming’ vs ‘foraging’ not being recognizable as the same thing. I mean … really?
The exact opposite is true IMO. The prosecution have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she intended to kill them. I think this would have been touch and go.

They had far from proved that she had knowingly picked death cap mushrooms. The prosecution's claims that she had seen posts on iNaturalist, then gone and picked them a couple of days later was loose at best. The defence did a good job of pouring doubt on the phone towers, and there was no actual evidence Erin had read those pages. It was a possible theory at best.

There would have been a couple of things left hanging in the air, like the fake cancer diagnosis but I could certainly have seen that not being enough to stop some jurors having doubts about an intentional poisoning.

Being on the stand has massively added to the information the jury has to judge on, and IMO likely given them less reason to doubt. There are a lot of small inconsistencies and barely-believable stories that weren't there previously.
 
  • #778
But disagreeing with someone/everyone is a completely different proposition to saying they're lying. They're two very different things.

If my recollection when catching up friends was that i was wearing a green shirt but they all think I was wearing a red shirt, I don't refer to them as liars.
This is of course true, and I think some people in their dislike for Erin get a bit carried away and misread what has actually been claimed. We can of course have different recollections of an event as memories are fallible.

However, it is staggering how many times she has disagreed about a recollection with professionals and witnesses alike. With some of these as well, the implication isn't that they are remembering differently but that the other person is wrong.

It might not be calling them a liar as such, but it saying they're wrong and she's right.
 
  • #779
It must be really hard being Colin Mandy right now.

He must be dying to scream 'I told you so' at Erin.
 
  • #780
It must be really hard being Colin Mandy right now.

He must be dying to scream 'I told you so' at Erin.

I disagree with pretty much everyone here and think Erin seems to be handling things quite well, all things considered. I guess we'll see soon enough.
 
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