Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #13 *Arrest*

[CityKid]

It’s hilarious when you tell so many lies you can’t keep track of them and then don’t expect the experts to investigate your lies.

Right? It beggars belief.

 

[CityKid]

.....maybe....hehe...nah, just jokes.

Hang on, has this piece of evidence kind of migrated a little from what has actually been said?

I'm pretty sure Erin hasn't stated that she added something that smelt of cat urine to the dish has she?

She said she opened the Tupperware filled with the mystery mushrooms from the Asian shop and added them to the Woolies button mushrooms.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I've had a further thought. Perhaps that 'family friend' said that to support that Erin was a seasoned mushroom forager? She might still be a friend of hers? Dr Rogers is suggesting that Erin didn’t normally go foraging, but just said she did so as to make it look as though she didn't just go looking for Death Caps. I don't think that line of questioning will aid the prosecution though, because it could make it appear that Erin didn’t know what she was doing and mistakenly picked Death Caps.

She is so precise in her responses … she seems very capable of doing many things with exactitude & precision.

Except for this lunch and days after where she is unable to do anything mindfully, helpful or useful to help doctors or public health.

If she was messy, bumbling, chaotic … it might be more believable that the poisoning was accidental.

However, her exacting definitions and precise responses are at odds with accidental poisoning. Nanette seems to be purposeful is showing that EP has a sharp memory (long and short term). and does not make careless mistakes (until she gets caught lying)

It seems like she says not “foraging” because the definition of foraging is to actively look for food … where she was just walking and saw “food” so, not foraging, just collecting found items?

(And what, she out on a walk w kids & stops, cuts the mushrooms and puts in handbag with no kids seeing?)

 

[Scuffy35]

Question: was the beef really missing from the binned BW?

Maybe there were no foraged mushrooms in the duxelle after all.

Maybe it was the beef that had a *special* marinade.

JMO

I think there was some beef in it based on the below testimony:

He told the court that nine samples were taken from the beef wellington, attempting to separate out meat, pastry and mushroom paste.

The samples were left for three hours in vials containing 5ml of methanol before being concentrated in a centrifuge and dried, Dr Gerostamoulos said.

A mass spectrometer machine was then used to detect specific molecules in the sample, with the toxicologist outlining the results.

In three of four mushroom paste samples no alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxins were found, but in one sample they detected beta-amanitin.

Beta-amanitin toxins were also detected in one meat sample, he said.

au.news.yahoo.com/wild-journey-mushroom-lunch-leftovers

 

[Kemug]

If you think that mushrooms are "smelling funny", why would you ever believe that storing them in a Tupperware container for ANY amount of time is going to make the smell go away? If they are going bad, the smell will only get worse.

And why would you put something so smelly into a meal that was meant to be so "special"?!

 

[Scuffy35]

I WISH they would talk about what would happen to meat that was cooked in the oven with toxic death cap mushrooms paste on top of it.

THAT MEAT WOULD BE TOXIC TOO. Those poisons would have infiltrated the beef for sure.

That is such an important part of this puzzle. She could not have scraped mushrooms off and expected it would not be poisonous as well. Her kids would be severely ill at the very least iff they had eaten that meat, unless it was from her personal BW.

I think I remember someone posting a scientific article on the subject of the DC toxins infiltrating other nearby food (in an oven?) in a previous thread.

I have been trying to find it again.

 

[lazymaiden07]

Yes the coworker is right. She also wraps friends around her fingers even though she is abrasive and very cynical and sarcastic.

She was also educated in academically selective schools for gifted students. They only accept the very top achievers.

I can imagine this would be draining to be around? Cheeky sarcasm is a bit of fun, but abrasive, cynical and sarcastic is just tiring... I find these types to then venture off into being a little nasty, too. All in the name of good fun they cry, but eh...I'm not suggesting this is EP here, but I've never found it to be a great combination.

 

[Kemug]

Genuinely what's the point of Erin saying this?

Well, you know Erin.

 

[Kemug]

Me too. You're not answering questions at the Korumburra pub, you're in a court of law! She doesn't have to like Dr Rogers, but show some respect.

Has she ever actually respected anyone?

 

[Kemug]

I don't believe I have any friends tried for or doing time for murder. I did have one once who did time for embezzlement. Does that mean I move in higher circles than the rest of you?

 

[Megnut]

I look for foreknowledge.

Is there an awareness that a poison causes violent vomiting and explosive diarrhea, rapidly eliminating the source of the poison?

Is there an awareness that, once ingested, the poison targets organs immediately leading to death, regardless of the source being expelled?

Is there an awareness of what the symptoms would be, of a certain toxicity?

Is there an awareness that, after 48 hours, the poison can apparently no longer be detected?

Is there an appearance of stalling, to delay oneself from testing, prior to the 48 hour mark?

Is there an awareness to conceal or discord everything that came into contact with said poison?

Is there a failure in awareness to account for what details victims can share prior to succumbing?

JMO

 

[Kemug]

Did we find out why she left that job? Was she disputing some aircraft actually did want to land or take off?

. . . . to Tower: Just landed, etc. Erin: Disagree!

 

[Kemug]

As to why she left the job, I don't know, but the way she reportedly spoke to her department head would not be conducive to a long career, methinks:

A former colleague of Erin Patterson has revealed details of her past life, describing her as “eccentric” and “abrasive” during her time as an air traffic controller in the early 2000s.

[...]

Her former colleague recalled an incident where she yelled at the head of the air traffic control department for tripping on her headset cord.

“I remember in the first week that she started in the job somebody walked behind her and tripped on a cord that was on the floor that was attached to her headset. She turned around and yelled ‘you right you buffoon?!’ It was the head of the air traffic control department. She didn’t hold back.”

If he sacked her, he may be lucky to be alive!

 

[browneyes]

Key Event
1m ago
Erin asks hospital staff about blood test to detect death cap mushroom toxin

By Joseph Dunstan

Ms Patterson agrees she asked a doctor at Leongatha Hospital if there was a blood test to detect the death cap toxin in people.

"I remember asking 'is there not a blood test you can do to find out if death cap mushrooms are the toxin that we've ingested', and I remember her saying something along the lines of 'there is a blood test but it's not going to tell us an answer for days, so we treat for the worst-case scenario'. That's the gist of what I remember from that conversation," she says.

Dr Rogers suggests that this was not asked out of concern but because she wanted to know if a test could detect the death cap toxin in her lunch guests.

She also asserts that Ms Patterson was "initially reluctant" to have her children assessed because she knew they'd not eaten leftovers from the contaminated lunch and their lives were not at risk.

"Incorrect," Ms Patterson says.

I just cannot get over how unconcerned Erin was over the possibility of her kids becoming seriously ill/dying. I’m sure the jury notices and knows exactly why.

 

[katydid23]

I've had a further thought. Perhaps that 'family friend' said that to support that Erin was a seasoned mushroom forager? She might still be a friend of hers? Dr Rogers is suggesting that Erin didn’t normally go foraging, but just said she did so as to make it look as though she didn't just go looking for Death Caps. I don't think that line of questioning will aid the prosecution though, because it could make it appear that Erin didn’t know what she was doing and mistakenly picked Death Caps.

It's very confusing.

I get what you are saying---it could work against the Prosecution if it gives her an excuse for 'accidentally' picking death caps.

But there are so many other surrounding circumstances which seem to counter that argument.

If she really had no experience with foraging, did not study it, was not trained or taught how to do it, then why would she trust that she was capable of doing so safely?

Why would she add wild foraged mushrooms to food she was preparing for relatives, if she really had no experience or training in that risky decision ?

I think I remember someone posting a scientific article on the subject of the DC toxins infiltrating other nearby food (in an oven?) in a previous thread.

I have been trying to find it again.

YES---I remember reading that here. It always stuck with me.

It clearly explained that the toxins are secreted from the mushrooms and are very invasive and they infiltrate whatever they seep into.

In a body, the toxins enter the blood stream and then infiltrate the digestive tract and onto the liver.

When the Death Cap are are cooked or steamed or baked, etc, the liquids from the mushrooms leak out and spread toxins to anything they are immersed with.

 

[Kemug]

Her children. Who love her. Who do have a stake in the outcome.

It is possible that her children lied. But for her, not against her.

 

[JBowie]

So, according to this report, the reason the jury was sent out 3 times after the lunch break on Wednesday was because the defence objected to prosecution questions. OK, so what were those questions?

 

[JBowie]

It is possible that her children lied. But for her, not against her.

I guess it's possible, but I think experienced detectives would pick up on that and call it out.

 

[Kemug]

'Are you making this up as you go along, Ms Paterson?' asks Dr Rogers.
'My father was the Kir it I tng of Prussia and my mum was a tour manager for Daryl Braithwaite', Ms Patterson replies.

I realise this is totally off topic, but before it's deleted, you might be interested to check out another "King of Prussia" who once lived in Cornwall.

 

[JBowie]

So, here are the triggers for 2 of the 3 objections [bbm]:

After the lunch break, Dr Rogers began questioning Ms Patterson about her “claims” of experience foraging wild mushrooms.

“In your evidence to this jury I suggest you have laid new claims about foraging?” Dr Rogers asked.

“What do you mean by new?” Ms Patterson responded.

The accused woman confirmed she told police in her interview on

August 5, 2023, she had not foraged for mushrooms.

“In your evidence to this jury we are hearing for the first time your claims to foraging mushrooms,” Dr Rogers said before Ms Patterson’s barrister Colin Mandy SC objected to the question.

Justice Christopher Beale asked Dr Rogers to rephrase the question.

“I take it what you’re wanting to get at is that there’s no evidence of Ms Patterson telling police, other witnesses in the case, she foraged for mushrooms,” Justice Beale asked.

“Yes,” Dr Rogers said before rephrasing the question.

“In the evidence, in this trial, you told a number of people you hadn’t foraged for mushrooms?” the prosecutor asked.

“I told the police I had never foraged but I didn’t say that to the other witnesses, I told them I’d not put foraged mushrooms in the meal,” Ms Patterson responded.

Dr Rogers told Ms Patterson in her evidence to the jury she said she’d foraged for wild mushrooms between 2020 and 2023, questioning “you never told anyone before now?”.

Mr Mandy objected again and the jury stood down.

When they returned Dr Rogers moved the topic of questioning to electronic devices located at Ms Patterson’s home.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-alleged-mushroom-poisoner-to-give-evidence-for-seventh-day/news-story/8de6b240063da071c1f1865a022a3e9c