Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[arrogantcat]

Curious, were any photos of the wild mushrooms, Erin had on the food scales identified as death caps?

Surely the police could have zoomed in and looked at different angles




*** Erin Patterson accused of murdering relatives with beef Wellington documented herself using kitchen scales to calculate a lethal dose of toxic mushrooms, prosecutors allege.

Prosecutors on Thursday suggested photos found on her phone showing wild fungi being weighed depict her measuring the amount required to kill her guests.

Ms Patterson told the court she had likely taken the photos in question but said she didn't believe the mushrooms in them were death caps.

Key features to look for include a smooth, yellowish-green to olive-brown cap, white gills, a white stem with a ring (annulus) and a cup-like structure (volva) at the base.

View attachment 596386

Mushroom trial: Accused weighed fatal dose on kitchen scales, prosecutors say

Erin Patterson told the court she didn't believe the mushrooms in photos recovered from her phone were toxic.

www.bbc.com

The mushroom expert said they were consistent with death caps but that he couldn’t see the spores or the stems, so they could also be another type of mushroom and he couldn’t definitively say.

 

[arrogantcat]

If she went into her bedroom for privacy to phone her lawyer, there would plenty of places to hide a phone & sim card - bedroom, Walk-in Robe, Ensuite.
MOO

Not from a police search. They tear the house apart. Remove bath panels, ceiling tiles, boiler covers, everything.

 

[Kemug]

Tick

Tock.

 

[dothetime]

Any evidence for this? Her mother was a noted English lit professor and author.

Catalogue Search | Author: "Scutter, Heather Margaret, 1946-" | Catalogue | National Library of Australia Search Results

catalogue.nla.gov.au

Somewhere in this thread I believe I did read of an Egyptian connection . . . ?

 

[Kemug]

If I had items related to a bush poo in a dog excrement bag in my handbag, it would be into the refuse bin adjacent to the petrol bawser ASAP. Or, into the refuse bin that’s always outside the front door at petrol stations. But that’s just me - not necessarily how everyone would act.

It has just (finally!) occurred to me that what she allegedly picked up was not really poo, it was diarrhea, remember? Almost impossible to pick up, surely? If I did that in the Australian countryside, I believe I would scrabble for a few handfuls of dirt to cover it with (and also any tissues).

 

[Susjay]

I don't think the judge can accept a majority vote in a murder trial. It has to be unanimous or a hung jury. Will be very interested to hear how the judge directs the jury. Bring on Tuesday!

Any evidence for this? Her mother was a noted English lit professor and author.

Catalogue Search | Author: "Scutter, Heather Margaret, 1946-" | Catalogue | National Library of Australia Search Results

catalogue.nla.gov.au

If Erin is convicted, I wonder how she's going to like prison, where just about every element of her life will be tightly controlled by the powers that be?

i imagine she will find it viscerally challenging. She will struggle.

If Erin is convicted, I wonder how she's going to like prison, where just about every element of her life will be tightly controlled by the powers that be?

i she will really struggle. It would really be difficult to be constrained.

 

[Kemug]

I don't think the judge can accept a majority vote in a murder trial. It has to be unanimous or a hung jury. Will be very interested to hear how the judge directs the jury. Bring on Tuesday!

Well, I really can't imagine that it will be unanimously "Not guilty", can anyone?

 

[Susjay]

It has just (finally!) occurred to me that what she allegedly picked up was not really poo, it was diarrhea, remember? Almost impossible to pick up, surely? If I did that in the Australian countryside, I believe I would scrabble for a few handfuls of dirt to cover it with.

Well she inferred it was the tissues she had in the dog bag.

 

[Susjay]

Any evidence for this? Her mother was a noted English lit professor and author.

Catalogue Search | Author: "Scutter, Heather Margaret, 1946-" | Catalogue | National Library of Australia Search Results

catalogue.nla.gov.au

Evidence is her testimony. It was a house not an apartment. No I said this not that. No, I didn’t mention taking Imodium - no one asked me!

 

[JBowie]

It has just (finally!) occurred to me that what she allegedly picked up was not really poo, it was diarrhea, remember? Almost impossible to pick up, surely? If I did that in the Australian countryside, I believe I would scrabble for a few handfuls of dirt to cover it with (and also any tissues).

Exactly! A close questioning of her about that would have been interesting (albeit disgusting).

My guess is that she would have pulled an 'I don't recall'.

 

[Kemug]

I don't envy being one of the jurors in this case. I wonder what stuff they have been privy to since we don't get the full story in the media

And I wonder if they are all secretly hoping to be part of the 2 that will soon be dropped?

 

[arrogantcat]

I alwahs find the Defense closing the most fascinating to dissect. I thought Mandy did a good job shaking up the inature evidence.

I’ve roughly transcribed how it was reported on the ABC podcast, here.

He made the point that by the prosecution’s own evidence, she only visited the inature site once, 14 months previously, for 2 minutes. There is no evidence she ever visited the site again.
And on that day she saw that there were no reported sightings of death cap mushrooms, ever, in the whole area.

So, what are they saying? Is she sitting there, studying this site and refreshing?
Any death caps? No, still aren't there.
Refresh.
Nope, still not there.
Refresh.
Nope, still not there.
Refresh.
Ah! Bingo!

Just those two reported sightings, the authors of which have testified to destroying all the mushrooms at, to prevent them from growing.
The base station expert has testified that it is only a possible visit to Loch.

Tom May has said he cannot confirm that the mushrooms in the scale photograph were death caps, as he couldn’t see enough of the details.

And if they were death caps in that photo, then the prosecution tell us she already had enough to kill 5 people! So why go to Loch? Why not use them at the lunch she had with Don and Gail on the 24th June? Why wait?

Are we in a world of total speculation?
This is speculation upon speculation upon speculation.

Are they death caps? We can't reasonably be confident on that.

Did she go to Loch?
We can't reasonably be confident on that.

Were there any in Loch that day?
We can't reasonably be confident on that.

Did she even see the posts on inature? We can't reasonably be confident on that.

I can see this being quite compelling for establishing doubt in the jury, especially in combination with his later maybe/probably/likely statements:

"If you think that maybe she deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty," Mr Mandy says.

"If you think that it's likely that she deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty.

"If you think that she probably deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty."

If I’m ever on trial for murder I want a defence barrister like him! (I’ll be NG obvs and being stitched up lol)

 

[Susjay]

Any evidence for this? Her mother was a noted English lit professor and author.

Catalogue Search | Author: "Scutter, Heather Margaret, 1946-" | Catalogue | National Library of Australia Search Results

catalogue.nla.gov.au

Ps I did not make the ESL claim. Just noted the accused tends to interpret words quite literally. Eg “what do you mean I had an “ interest” in mushrooms?” It was not an apartment, it was a house. When people take things literally it usually has nothing to do with language of origin or otherwise. Rather, it is about the way one interprets and processes words in context. If someone says, “ Oh come on, just chill, I live in the present!” The person interpreting the word present may expect your house to look like a large gift wrapped box with a door, windows and a large bow. And many people who don’t have English as first language get caught when their friends, say “we are having a party, please bring a plate. So bring a plate with food to share - not an empty plate.

 

[Kemug]

Not from a police search. They tear the house apart. Remove bath panels, ceiling tiles, boiler covers, everything.

On her person?

 

[Susjay]

I thought Mandy did a good job dissecting the inature evidence.

I’ve roughly transcribed how it was reported on the ABC podcast, here.



I can see this potentially being quite compelling for establishing doubt to a jury, especially in combination with his later maybe/probably/likely statements.

True, but I wonder what might have been revealed if she had not reset the one particular phone and not made such an effort to conceal her main or primary phone.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

No disrespect but why are the plates still discussed? Heather noticed, she mentioned it to Ian who remembered. That’s it.

Innocent: she gave her guests matching plates, a standard set of 4 in AU. She took a presentable plate from her everyday (mismatched?) plates for herself.
Guilty: she distinguished her ‘safe’ plate by using a different colour. Too obvious imho.

Remember, she fed kids, probably their friends, didn’t entertain.

Erin’s testimony is that the plates were NOT matching.

2 white
2 black
1 colorful

Ian says:
4 grey
1 colorful

EP son says
All plates white

 

[JBowie]

Not from a police search. They tear the house apart. Remove bath panels, ceiling tiles, boiler covers, everything.

AFAIK, that's not usual in this country, except perhaps where major organized crime is involved.

At Patterson's house police used dogs capable of sniffing out electronic devices.

 

[Susjay]

On her person?

Searching body I think only happens if you are arrested but I’m not sure. State jurisdictions have their own rules and warrants. That’s why the tech dogs found stuff. There were two black labs searching the Leongatha house. These dogs are amazing - AFP tech dogs usually used for child cases etc I understand. There was a news article about the two dogs that led the tech search of the Leongatha property.

 

[Monstradamus]

AFAIK, that's not usual in this country, except perhaps where major organized crime is involved.

At Patterson's house police used dogs capable of sniffing out electronic devices.

The police only used the dogs in the 2nd search, in November. 2 months after she allegedly threw Phone A away in a skip bin clean up.

 

[arrogantcat]

Ps I did not make the ESL claim. Just noted the accused tends to interpret words quite literally. Eg “what do you mean I had an “ interest” in mushrooms?” It was not an apartment, it was a house. When people take things literally it usually has nothing to do with language of origin or otherwise. Rather, it is about the way one interprets and processes words in context. If someone says, “ Oh come on, just chill, I live in the present!” The person interpreting the word present may expect your house to look like a large gift wrapped box with a door, windows and a large bow. And many people who don’t have English as first language get caught when their friends, say “we are having a party, please bring a plate. So bring a plate with food to share - not an empty plate.

This pedantic dissection of the prosecutor’s language is an intentional defence tactic to avoid being drawn into statements you don’t intend to make.
Eg, “so you admit you picked death caps?”
“No, I admit I picked mushrooms but I do not know if they were death caps”.

It can seem pedantic when applied to less inflammatory statements, but in the witness box you don’t know where they are going with any single sentence. So you stay absolutely true to your story, word for word, and refuse to concede anything, however small or insignificant.