Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[Elley Mae]

Ms Cripps said Ms Patterson told her after she applied for child support around September 2022, the separated couple’s relationship changed and Simon Patterson “became nasty”.

“She talked about feeling he was at time controlling and emotionally abusive … would say things that made her doubt herself as a mother,” she said.

“But she did say they had a good relationship until recently.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-alleged-mushroom-poisoner-was-ill-intensive-care-specialist-tells-court/news-story/2a1417ea5465148399f0c13da4735ad2

He told the court the toxins were “quite resilient” and remained stable when subject to high heat, such as when cooked.

If the toxins were ingested, Dr Gerostamoulos said the liver was unable to process them.

“They are rapidly cleared, usually within a day from the blood, but may remain in the urine for some days,” he said.

“It’s essential a sample is taken close to the time of ingestion.”

Much more at link

 

[Detechtive]

I agree, how dumb of her

Did she not think the hospital would find out what had caused the poisoning?

And then it becomes a full-on investigation

Simon's lucky she didn't send his meal by DoorDash or Uber to him, as she did say she had spent a 'small fortune' making it and was not happy he was not attending.

I honestly think she didn't anticipate public health involvement.

 

[Yh5r]

I honestly think she didn't anticipate public health involvement.

Clearly not, but how I wonder? She set out to kill 4 people that were older but still fit and healthy otherwise, they die around the same time and can all be linked back to a recent lunch at her house, didn't she foresee a huge investigation?

 

[Detechtive]

Clearly not, but how I wonder? She set out to kill 4 people that were older but still fit and healthy otherwise, they die around the same time and can all be linked back to a recent lunch at her house, didn't she foresee a huge investigation?

I think it's a case of small town thinking. Out there in the sticks, they are quite isolated and it may have gone down as a simple case of salmonella (in her mind).

Add to that, autopsies on elderly people are not routinely done.

I think she grossly overestimated her intelligence and grossly underestimated the public health sector and the detectives. Dunning Kruger.

But even then, perhaps she wasn't in a rational state of mind and her resentments and anger clouded her judgment and there is no method to her madness. Murder never makes sense after all.

 

[Montrealaise]

I honestly think she didn't anticipate public health involvement.

Four people become violently ill and three of them die after having lunch at her home and she didn't think the authorities would take a close look?

 

[Kemug]

I certainly wouldn't call Heather "elderly", she was only 66, with a lot of living left to do. Plenty of 66 year olds are still working fulltime. And at 66 Don climbed to the Everest Base Camp.

 

[katydid23]

Yes. I know that, but as I said it's the way that the news was reporting it.

Luckily, only the jurors matter now and they [hopefully] won't be watching TV news.

 

[Yh5r]

I think it's a case of small town thinking. Out there in the sticks, they are quite isolated and it may have gone down as a simple case of salmonella (in her mind).

Add to that, autopsies on elderly people are not routinely done.

I think she grossly overestimated her intelligence and grossly underestimated the public health sector and the detectives. Dunning Kruger.

But even then, perhaps she wasn't in a rational state of mind and her resentments and anger clouded her judgment and there is no method to her madness. Murder never makes sense after all.

I'm not sure about Victoria but in NSW (the state I live in), all deaths outside of hospital where a doctor didn't foresee an imminent death are investigated by police and the bodies go to the coroner for further investigation and autopsies if required, regardless of age.

And yes agreed, they weren't really elderly, just retirees.

 

[Spectrix]

If shed made two extra pastries for the kids youd cook them later because they are individual serves you wouldnt cook them with everyone else's when the kids werent even home then put them in the fridge then reheat. Its asinine to suggest.

Of course we know it's a lie anyway because the kids said they just ate plain steak.

We'll never know, but it may very well be true. We now have proof that there was an extra tainted Wellington, probably intended for Simon should he change his mind (or drop in to the house to say hello when he dropped the kids home)

And there was Erin's story of giving leftover Wellington to the kids which we can neither prove or disprove.

Simon's lucky she didn't send his meal by DoorDash or Uber to him, as she did say she had spent a 'small fortune' making it and was not happy he was not attending.

percent, I bet she's spewing she didn't think of that first. In fact if she had, perhaps the others wouldn't have attended hospital, as it was Simon who insisted they went.

Knowing what we know now about the toxin being completly eliminated from the bodies of Heather and Gail, it would have been much harder to prove.

.

 

[Tortoise]

I think she thought she'd get away with it, allegedly, by maintaining the story that she bought them. So telling them where to find the leftovers (IMO and allegedly IMO Simon's pasty), would have been in keeping with her not having any knowledge, as opposed to trying to dispose of them elsewhere.

I think getting rid of the dehydrator was panic, because she'd mucked up (allegedly) when she told Ms Cripps she'd bought the mushrooms already dried, not that she'd dried them herself, and that she had rehydrated them. How does the timing of her conversation with Ms Cripps fit with the disposal of the dehydrator, anyone know?

Ms Cripps said Ms Patterson told her she rehydrated the mushrooms, chopped them up and mixed them with other mushrooms she purchased from Woolworths for the beef wellington meal.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australi...ive-coverage/2bc470f3b69325c927ca791a61ed98ae

 

[Detechtive]

I wouldn't call Heather "elderly", she was only 66, with a lot of living left to do. Plenty of 66 year olds are still working fulltime. And at 66 Don climbed to the Everest Base Camp.

Maybe elderly was the wrong word, but they were certainly at the pointy end of the age scale. I wouldn't call them spring chickens.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I honestly think she didn't anticipate public health involvement.

I don't think she planned things too well.

She started panicking when the police came around and knocked on her door, getting involved.

She knew then it's now a police investigation, so she raced the dehydrator to the tip, telling the police she didn't own one.

hid her one phone, with the prosecution alleging Ms Patterson conducted factory resets on her other phone repeatedly.

Either way, if they got sick or died, an autopsy would be required, and the hospital would come in
to play, especially 4 sick at the time, and three then succumbed to death.

 

[Detechtive]

I don't think she planned things too well.

She started panicking when the police came around and knocked on her door, getting involved.

She knew then it's now a police investigation, so she raced the dehydrator to the tip, telling the police she didn't own one.

hid her one phone, with the prosecution alleging Ms Patterson conducted factory resets on her other phone repeatedly.

Either way, if they got sick or died, an autopsy would be required, and the hospital would come in
to play, then the investigation rolls on.... where did the mushrooms come from etc...

I agree. Usually offenders will fit in the organised (methodical and planned) or disorganised (impulsive) category, but I think she fits the profile of a mixed organised and disorganised alleged offender.

Factors Leading to Mixed Behaviours​

Several factors can contribute to an offender exhibiting both organised and disorganised traits:

Psychological Evolution:​

As some serial offenders continue their crimes, they may experience psychological changes. This can result in a shift from organised to disorganised behaviours or vice versa over time.

Situational Variables:​

External factors, such as unexpected resistance from a victim or unforeseen complications, can disrupt an offender's plan, introducing disorganised elements into an otherwise organised crime.

https://criminal-justice.iresearchn...ss/criminal-profiling-and-behavioral-analysis

 

[Yh5r]

Maybe elderly was the wrong word, but they were certainly at the pointy end of the age scale. I wouldn't call them spring chickens.

To my knowledge, investigative services don't treat an outbreak of even just a 'simple' food poisoning any different if the victims are elderly anyway. Anyhow, EP clearly intended to poison SP as well and he was only middle aged.

 

[Detechtive]

To my knowledge, investigative services don't treat an outbreak of even just a 'simple' food poisoning any different if the victims are elderly anyway. Anyhow, EP clearly intended to poison SP as well and he was only middle aged.

Yeah it doesn't really make sense if she allegedly poisoned a bunch of people without considering that there would be mass attention from public health and focus on her and the matter. What I do find compelling is that she pleads it was a tragic accident but the cook and her beloved children weren't harmed. That is compelling, to me.

But the majority of murderers are caught, and even the most intelligent make stupid errors which is why they are caught.

 

[Ellery84]

She certainly wouldn't have anyone accepting her dinner invitations!

Not if they value their liver health! Gosh!

 

[Ellery84]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense if she allegedly poisoned a bunch of people without considering that there would be mass attention from public health and focus on her and the matter. What I do find compelling is that she pleads it was a tragic accident but the cook and her beloved children weren't harmed. That is compelling, to me.

But the majority of murderers are caught, and even the most intelligent make stupid errors which is why they are caught.

Right you are. And she also didn’t poison her beloved dog. That would have taken some effort - to keep the food from the dog.


Dogs love left-overs.

 

[Kemug]

Maybe elderly was the wrong word, but they were certainly at the pointy end of the age scale. I wouldn't call them spring chickens.

And neither was Erin.

 

[Spectrix]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense if she allegedly poisoned a bunch of people without considering that there would be mass attention from public health and focus on her and the matter. What I do find compelling is that she pleads it was a tragic accident but the cook and her beloved children weren't harmed. That is compelling, to me.

But the majority of murderers are caught, and even the most intelligent make stupid errors which is why they are caught.

She may be bright and well educated as reported, but experience shows that academic smarts do not necessarily coincide with common sense.
I'm really not sure why that is. One would think that an inherent capacity to learn would correlate with the capacity to predict predicable outcomes.

 

[Kemug]

Situational Variables:​

External factors, such as unexpected resistance from a victim or unforeseen complications, can disrupt an offender's plan, introducing disorganised elements into an otherwise organised crime.

Yup, just like Bryan Kohberger.