Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

5m ago

Analysis of samples 'can be challenging'​

By Tim Callanan​

Mr Mandy is now showing images of toxicology results from the testing of the samples.

Each sample is labelled, such as "beef" or "pastry", but Dr Gerostamoulos agrees that there could be elements of other items in the contents. For example, the "beef" sample may contain small amounts of pastry.

There is also discussion of a "confidence threshold" for each sample. Mr Mandy asks whether that means there could be a smaller amount of that substance which does not reach the threshold.

Dr Gerostamoulos says "there may be" and explains that food analysis "can be challenging."

5m ago

Question raised about Don and Gail Patterson​

By Tim Callanan​

Mr Mandy is now asking about results from samples taken from Don Patterson which were taken about 32 hours after the meal.

Dr Gerostamoulos explains the sooner a sample is taken the better the chance of extracting evidence of a toxin.

The exchange is paused after the judge calls for a short break.

Analysis of beef Wellington lunch leftovers probed in mushroom trial — as it happened

The triple murder trial of Erin Patterson continues from the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell. She's accused of killing three relatives who ate a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[LinasK]

I agree. They will argue Erin was exposed to the DC as evidenced by her gastro symptoms, that her urine was tested too late for the toxin test to be meaningful and she was just very lucky.

And that all of the samples would/could have tested positive for DC toxins but the seepage means some of the toxin containing fluid leached away.

It doesn’t explain how they’ll justify the children’s negative tests though, or them being so well. Their urine tests probably were meaningful as they were tested closer to ingestion

And yet all of her other Lab levels were fine. Her Liver was fine. Gastro symptoms could be accounted for by drinking coffee. It's acidic.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Ground Beef and Mushroom Carbonara

A takeoff on the traditional, this dish is rich and comforting.

www.bettycrocker.com

• 12 oz uncooked spaghetti
• 4 slices bacon
• 1/2 lb lean (at least 80%) ground beef
• 1 package (8 oz) sliced fresh mushrooms (3 cups)
• 1 small onion, chopped (1/4 cup)
• 4 cloves garlic, finely chopped
• 1/2 teaspoon salt
• 1/4 teaspoon pepper
• 1 cup whipping cream
• 3 pasteurized eggs, beaten
• 1 cup grated Parmesan cheese
• 2 tablespoons chopped fresh parsley

If she had planned to serve Carbonara ---NO NEED for any powdered mushrooms. The recipes I found were all sliced FRESH mushrooms only

So her explanation for needing to switch recipes is bologna, imo

Oh My! We're becoming a LOT like Erin and her online buddies - talking true crime, sharing recipes etc. Anyone got a dehydrator they want to share pics of?

Anyway, my belief was she said she opened the dried mushrooms several months before (maybe about April?) for a carbonara meal she wanted to make at the time. No idea if Simon was to be a guest at that dinner. She said they had a very strong smell and would be too overpowering for the pasta dish, then put them into a container and threw away the packaging, saving them for a dish where the strong flavour would be more appropriate, like a beef wellington. That's my recollection of the dried Asian store mushrooms anyway.

MOO

 

[Detechtive]

Oh My! We're becoming a LOT like Erin and her online buddies - talking true crime, sharing recipes etc. Anyone got a dehydrator they want to share pics of?

Anyway, my belief was she said she opened the dried mushrooms several months before (maybe about April?) for a carbonara meal she wanted to make at the time. No idea if Simon was to be a guest at that dinner. She said they had a very strong smell and would be too overpowering for the pasta dish, then put them into a container and threw away the packaging, saving them for a dish where the strong flavour would be more appropriate, like a beef wellington. That's my recollection of the dried Asian store mushrooms anyway.

MOO

There weren't any dried Asian store mushrooms. That was a lie.

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
4m ago

Questions turn to Erin Patterson's test results​

By Tim Callanan​

The trial has resumed after the short break.

Mr Mandy continues with questions about the test results of the lunch guests and notes the times at which blood and other samples were taken from the guests.

The guests were all tested between 25 and 32 hours after the lunch.

Mr Mandy asks Dr Gerostamoulos to confirm that the death cap toxin can be detected in urine for longer than it can in blood, and he agrees.

Mr Mandy says only two samples were taken from Erin Patterson, which were taken 51 hours after the lunch and did not detect death cap mushrooms.

Dr Gerostamoulos agrees.

Analysis of beef Wellington lunch leftovers probed in mushroom trial — as it happened

The triple murder trial of Erin Patterson continues from the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell. She's accused of killing three relatives who ate a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

4 minutes ago

Revealed: How the beef wellington was tested by experts​

Dr Gerostamoulos explained to the jury how the toxicologists tested the leftovers.
He said samples of the leftovers were separated into vials before a small amount of methanol was added.
The court heard the samples sat for three hours before the liquid produced was concentrated, centrifuged then further concentrated.
“The process really is about concentrating these samples so we can maximise the detection of any compound of interest,” he said.
He added that the aim was to try to extract the compound of interest.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/forensic-tests-revealed-death-cap-toxins-in-debris-from-dumped-dehydrator/live-coverage/ebdc70f3d92b97e521bf68a46a4152fc?amp

 

[drsleuth]

I can't do the updates for much longer, if someone wants to do them that would be great!

 

[HoneyBunOne]

There weren't any dried Asian store mushrooms. That was a lie.

I know, I was relaying what Erin said happened, and talking about the alleged Asian store mushrooms.

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
1m ago

'Lots of variables' determine lethal death cap dose​

By Tim Callanan​

Questions now turn to the amount of toxin that constitute a potentially lethal dose.

"There are lots of variables that needed to be considered for that lethal dose," Dr Gerostamoulos says, including the age and health of the subject and he confirms that is based on animal studies, not human studies.

Dr Gerostamoulos agrees that most of the studies on death cap mushroom comes from Europe because that is where most poisonings occur.

Mr Mandy is discussing a study which showed some people who consumed death cap mushrooms reacted with different levels of severity, which is categorised in four grades.

He mentions the first grade in which a person does not develop liver or kidney issues even though they ate the same meal as people who reacted more severely.

Dr Gerostamoulos is asked about whether, depending on an individual person's tolerance, the person's response may be different to that of other people who've eaten the same meal, and he agrees.

He also agrees that factors such as age, health, and weight might influence their response.


1m ago

The court takes a short break​

By Tim Callanan​

The prosecution asks for a short break, and the judge agrees.

The testimony of Dr Gerostamoulos will continue after the break.

Analysis of beef Wellington lunch leftovers probed in mushroom trial — as it happened

The triple murder trial of Erin Patterson continues from the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell. She's accused of killing three relatives who ate a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

Ok , I'm off.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Oh My! We're becoming a LOT like Erin and her online buddies - talking true crime, sharing recipes etc. Anyone got a dehydrator they want to share pics of?

Anyway, my belief was she said she opened the dried mushrooms several months before (maybe about April?) for a carbonara meal she wanted to make at the time. No idea if Simon was to be a guest at that dinner. She said they had a very strong smell and would be too overpowering for the pasta dish, then put them into a container and threw away the packaging, saving them for a dish where the strong flavour would be more appropriate, like a beef wellington. That's my recollection of the dried Asian store mushrooms anyway.

MOO

She foraged for the death cap mushrooms.

 

[browneyes]

Ok , I'm off.

Thank you for posting!

 

[MsMarple]

Prosecution questions Dr Gerostamoulos​

By Tim Callanan​

Prosecution lawyer Sarah Lenthall has resumed questioning of Dr Gerostamoulos.

But there is now a delay after the defence objects to a question put forward by the prosecution.

 

[MsMarple]

late change in the witness stand​

By Tim Callanan​

The questioning of Dr Gerostamoulos has been postponed and will be resumed on Monday.

A new witness is now being called, whose testimony is expected to be completed during today's session.

 

[BreakingNews]

Family Law is subject to federal law, it's not state specific. When a property settlement is heard in the family court, assets are largely assessed around the time of the hearing and the valuations for everything must be recent. Liabilities are also assessed at time of hearing.

And besides, Erin and Simon were not (on paper) separated at the time in 2015.

Family Law is subject to federal law, it's not state specific. When a property settlement is heard in the family court, assets are largely assessed around the time of the hearing and the valuations for everything must be recent. Liabilities are also assessed at time of hearing.

And besides, Erin and Simon were not (on paper) separated at the time in 2015.

Sorry, I was only talking about my personal situation. Property settlement was done under mediation agreement, not in Federal court. And assets were divided as per date of seperation. My personal experience. Then it was filed with the courts.

 

[MsMarple]

Waiting…

 

[MsMarple]

Prosecution calls a new witness, Dr David Lovelock​

By Tim Callanan​

Dr David Lovelock has now taken the witness stand to be questioned by Nanette Rogers SC. He's Manager of Diagnostics at Plant Health Victoria.

He says his work involves determining what plants or fungus might be affecting the crops of farmers. He was asked to conduct analysis linked to this case.

He says he was contacted by the Department of Health on August 2, 2023 and asked to identify whether there were mushrooms in the samples provided.

Dr Lovelock says he received two samples of beef Wellington in ziplock bags from Monash Health for analysis.

 

[MsMarple]

Photos shown to beef Wellingtons shown to court​

By Kristian Silva​

A series of photos are flashed up on the court screens, showing more beef Wellington leftovers.

The first image shows two ziplock bags, and the second and third are the contents of those bags - pieces of pastry with brown paste.

 

[MsMarple]

Waiting…

 

[MsMarple]

Testing of samples explained by Dr Lovelock​

By Tim Callanan​

There is discussion of the samples which were contained in the ziplock bags and the labelling of the contents. These are confirmed as mushroom remnants from the beef Wellington.

The questions now turn to samples of gravy and fruit that Dr Lovelock received on August 8, 2023.

There were also samples from a dehydrator which are contained in tubes.

Dr Lovelock says he was advised to look for death cap mushrooms in the samples in the ziplock bags.

He says the fruit was visually inspected, but not tested. The gravy was tested.

Dr Lovelock says dna was extracted and examined for fungal pathogens. He says quality controls were used to ensure the correct outcome of testing.

He says dna was extracted from button mushrooms, death cap mushrooms and two other deadly mushrooms to be used as "control" substances.