Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[Marg944]

“Mr Mandy says only two samples were taken from Erin Patterson, which were taken 51 hours after the lunch and did not detect death cap mushrooms.

Dr Gerostamoulos agrees.”

—————————-


“Dr Gerostamoulos reiterates the toxins are quickly eliminated from blood, and if a sample is not taken within 24-30 hours, "it is very unlikely" that the toxins will be detected.”

 

[MsMarple]

Things are moving awfully slow today.

 

[MsMarple]

Key Event
1m ago

Death cap mushroom dna found in samples​

By Tim Callanan​

Dr Lovelock says there are tests they conduct to ensure they have extracted good quality samples.

He says the only mushroom dna found in the ziplock bags was from button mushrooms.

He says the testing detected Amanita phalloides in two of the seven samples in the test tubes, which contained substances from the dehydrator.

Dr Lovelock says there was no contamination of the samples, as confirmed by control testing.

He says the positive results from the test tubes had 99 per cent similarity to death cap mushroom dna.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Key Event
1m ago

Death cap mushroom dna found in samples​

By Tim Callanan​

Dr Lovelock says there are tests they conduct to ensure they have extracted good quality samples.

He says the only mushroom dna found in the ziplock bags was from button mushrooms.

He says the testing detected Amanita phalloides in two of the seven samples in the test tubes, which contained substances from the dehydrator.

Dr Lovelock says there was no contamination of the samples, as confirmed by control testing.

He says the positive results from the test tubes had 99 per cent similarity to death cap mushroom dna.

She has used the two types, safe ( button mushrooms) and the deadly (deathcap ones)

 

[MsMarple]

Key Event
1m ago

Cross examination of Dr Lovelock begins​

By Tim Callanan​

The prosecution finishes its questioning of Dr Lovelock, so it's over to the defence.

Defence lawyer Colin Mandy SC is now asking about the protocols to stop cross contamination of samples.

Dr Lovelock says he doesn't know what the material in the ziplock bags looked like before the samples reached him. He confirms the samples were "distorted or misshapen" probably due to cooking.

Mr Mandy asks Dr Lovelock about an interim report that suggested a second mushroom species other than button mushrooms was in the samples.

Mr Mandy raises an email from Victoria Police that suggested to Dr Lovelock "not to worry" about death cap mushroom testing of those samples.

There are no further questions and Dr Lovelock is excused.

 

[MsMarple]

1m ago

Dimitri Gerostamoulos returns for a single question​

By Tim Callanan​

The prosecution asks a single question of forensics expert Dimitri Gerostamoulos, whose testimony was briefly postponed.

He is asked if two people with no previous health issues consume death cap mushrooms and one of them dies and one survives, would he expect there to be some adverse health effects on the person who survived.

Dimitri Gerostamoulos replies that there was "likely to be some adverse reactions to the person who survived".

He concedes there have been cases where two people ate the same meal contaminated with death cap mushrooms and one died and the other survived.

He is then discharged.

 

[MsMarple]

1m ago

That's it for the trial this week​

By Tim Callanan​

The judge calls a halt to proceedings for the week.

The trial will resume on Monday.

 

[MsMarple]

Erin Patterson mushroom trial: Toxicologist takes stand, lethal dose ‘variable’

Erin Patterson is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au

Victoria’s chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos has returned to the stand​

Victoria’s chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos has returned to the stand for re-examination.

The court heard earlier on Friday that he would return for re-examination on Monday, however, he was called back to the court after the defence withdrew an objection to a question by the prosecution.

Gerostamoulos: “It would be likely there would be adverse outcomes for that person.

“We have had examples where two people have consumed the same meal (containing death caps), including a case in Victoria last year, where one person died and the other person was pretty unwell in ICU.”
By Tita Smith

4 minutes ago

Plant expert says traces of death cap mushroom DNA found in samples​

David Lovelock, a plant virology and bacteriology diagnostician, was asked by the Department of Health to examine the lunch leftovers in 2023 to determine what species of mushrooms were used in the beef wellington.

He said his work involves helping farmers determine what fungus are affecting their crops.

Under questioning from the prosecution, Lovelock explained that he took DNA samples from various mushrooms - including button, death cap, and ghost and yellow stain (two other common poisonous Victorian mushrooms) - to carry out controls.

He then ran tests on the food leftovers (including the pasties filled with mushrooms and beef and a separate gravy) and samples of vegetable matter taken from the food dehydrator.

Lovelock told the court two out of the seven samples contained traces of death cap mushroom DNA.

 

[Detechtive]

Erin Patterson mushroom trial: Toxicologist takes stand, lethal dose ‘variable’

Erin Patterson is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au

Victoria’s chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos has returned to the stand​

Victoria’s chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos has returned to the stand for re-examination.

The court heard earlier on Friday that he would return for re-examination on Monday, however, he was called back to the court after the defence withdrew an objection to a question by the prosecution.

Gerostamoulos: “It would be likely there would be adverse outcomes for that person.

“We have had examples where two people have consumed the same meal (containing death caps), including a case in Victoria last year, where one person died and the other person was pretty unwell in ICU.”
By Tita Smith

4 minutes ago

Plant expert says traces of death cap mushroom DNA found in samples​

David Lovelock, a plant virology and bacteriology diagnostician, was asked by the Department of Health to examine the lunch leftovers in 2023 to determine what species of mushrooms were used in the beef wellington.

He said his work involves helping farmers determine what fungus are affecting their crops.

Under questioning from the prosecution, Lovelock explained that he took DNA samples from various mushrooms - including button, death cap, and ghost and yellow stain (two other common poisonous Victorian mushrooms) - to carry out controls.

He then ran tests on the food leftovers (including the pasties filled with mushrooms and beef and a separate gravy) and samples of vegetable matter taken from the food dehydrator.

Lovelock told the court two out of the seven samples contained traces of death cap mushroom DNA.

So yeah, Simon's pie and her untainted leftovers.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Cross examination of Dr Lovelock begins​

The prosecution finishes its questioning of Dr Lovelock, so it's over to the defence.

Defence lawyer Colin Mandy SC is now asking about the protocols to stop cross contamination of samples.

Dr Lovelock says he doesn't know what the material in the ziplock bags looked like before the samples reached him. He confirms the samples were "distorted or misshapen" probably due to cooking.

Mr Mandy asks Dr Lovelock about an interim report that suggested a second mushroom species other than button mushrooms was in the samples.

Mr Mandy raises an email from Victoria Police that suggested to Dr Lovelock "not to worry" about death cap mushroom testing of those samples.

There are no further questions and Dr Lovelock is excused.

Dimitri Gerostamoulos returns for a single question​

The prosecution asks a single question of forensics expert Dimitri Gerostamoulos, whose testimony was briefly postponed.

He is asked if two people with no previous health issues consume death cap mushrooms and one of them dies and one survives, would he expect there to be some adverse health effects on the person who survived.

Dimitri Gerostamoulos replies that there was "likely to be some adverse reactions to the person who survived".

He concedes there have been cases where two people ate the same meal contaminated with death cap mushrooms and one died and the other survived.

He is then discharged.

That's it for the trial this week​

The judge calls a halt to proceedings for the week.

The trial will resume on Monday.

 

[Warshawski]

.

Was Ian Wilkinson asked about what Erin ate that day for lunch?

Yes he was. He said she was eating, but he wasn’t sure how much she ate.

I’m intrigued by the toxicologist’s report that a 70kg person would need about 3 tbsp (50 gr) of the toxin to be fatal. That seems a huge amount ?

It’s just a guess but I think Gail & Heather would have weighed at least 70kg, EP & the men lots more.

 

[katydid23]

Oh My! We're becoming a LOT like Erin and her online buddies - talking true crime, sharing recipes etc. Anyone got a dehydrator they want to share pics of?

Anyway, my belief was she said she opened the dried mushrooms

'Opened' them? Who closed them? She foraged them herself. So she could have used them fresh and made a nice dinner for her kids. I wonder why she didn't?

several months before (maybe about April?) for a carbonara meal she wanted to make at the time. No idea if Simon was to be a guest at that dinner. She said they had a very strong smell and would be too overpowering for the pasta dish, then put them into a container and threw away the packaging,

What packaging? There was no packaging because she picked them fresh.

saving them for a dish where the strong flavour would be more appropriate, like a beef wellington.

The strong smell was there because she had picked Death Caps. She knew that.

That's my recollection of the dried Asian store mushrooms anyway.

MOO

@HoneyBunOne ---Not directing these questions to you, I know you were just posting what EP said

 

[Warshawski]

Who can explain why both Heather and Gail tested negative for Death Cap toxins, yet they died anyway?

It seems there wasn’t a consistency of samples taken from each ‘lunch guest’ patient, nor a consistency in the time the samples were taken and / or tested.

This then led to the inconsistency of results imo - even though it was evident from their symptoms that they were all suffering from the same ‘illness’, they were struggling to identify the cause & the treatment needed.

There is a very strong possibility that Gail, Don & Heather would have survived if Medical staff had been aware from the outset that the meal contained foraged mushrooms.

EP continued to deny that fact time & time again.

IMO, irrespective of whether, as she claims, the poisoning was an accident, she knowingly and deliberately did something that led to the death of 3 people by withholding the truth about where the mushrooms came from.

 

[SouthAussie]

The guests were all tested between 25 and 32 hours after the lunch.

Mr Mandy asks Dr Gerostamoulos to confirm that the death cap toxin can be detected in urine for longer than it can in blood, and he agrees.

Mr Mandy says only two samples were taken from Erin Patterson, which were taken 51 hours after the lunch and did not detect death cap mushrooms.

I can't imagine that Heather and Gail had much (if any) urine left in their bodies after they had been vomiting and having diarrhea all night and all morning.

Yet Erin was able to provide enough urine to be tested. Her "symptoms" had not caused extreme dehydration, it seems.

imo

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Things are moving awfully slow today.

How many breaks do they get? They start around 10.30 am and finish just after lunch

It will drag on..

 

[Warshawski]

I bet she’s regretting admitting that now.

IMO

BBM

I think she had to admit it to have a shot at ‘it was accidental’.

The Defence team have all the prosecution’s evidence so no use denying she went foraging for mushrooms as soon as ‘death cap mushroom season’ started, and so close to home.

 

[SouthAussie]

Things are moving awfully slow today.

It sounds to me as if the jury have been in and out today, as the defence and prosecution object to each others questions, and the judge needs to have a sidebar with them.

 

[Warshawski]

So why was it reported yesterday that it wasn't detected in the leftovers?

It wasn’t detected by the woman from Botanic Gardens who only looked at it under a microscope. .. that wouldn’t show toxins or for that matter, anything that was powered & mixed in.
IMO they raced those leftovers to her to see if she could visually identify the presence of ‘dodgy’ mushrooms as opposed to common button mushrooms

 

[Detechtive]

It seems there wasn’t a consistency of samples taken from each ‘lunch guest’ patient, nor a consistency in the time the samples were taken and / or tested.

This then led to the inconsistency of results imo - even though it was evident from their symptoms that they were all suffering from the same ‘illness’, they were struggling to identify the cause & the treatment needed.

There is a very strong possibility that Gail, Don & Heather would have survived if Medical staff had been aware from the outset that the meal contained foraged mushrooms.

EP continued to deny that fact time & time again.

IMO, irrespective of whether, as she claims, the poisoning was an accident, she knowingly and deliberately did something that led to the death of 3 people by withholding the truth about where the mushrooms came from.

Agree.

Testing for DC poisoning would be a very low probability test, I imagine, given how rare it is.

If she so loved them and it was accidental, she most certainly ensured their outcomes were grave by her self preservation, which makes her a terrible person in my opinion, regardless of whether it’s murder or manslaughter or recklessness.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

She foraged for the death cap mushrooms.

I get that, I was recounting Erin's alleged version of events.