Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[Marg944]

Shame there probably isn’t room for a sketch artist in the court. The sketches in the past have been helpful in capturing Erin’s character….

April, 2024




April, 2024



April, 2025




I really would like to see ABC sketch artist Rocco Fazzari’s impression of Erin. He did a fabulous sketch of another alleged murderer a while back…

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Oh My! We're becoming a LOT like Erin and her online buddies - talking true crime, sharing recipes etc. Anyone got a dehydrator they want to share pics of?

Anyway, my belief was she said she opened the dried mushrooms several months before (maybe about April?) for a carbonara meal she wanted to make at the time. No idea if Simon was to be a guest at that dinner. She said they had a very strong smell and would be too overpowering for the pasta dish, then put them into a container and threw away the packaging, saving them for a dish where the strong flavour would be more appropriate, like a beef wellington. That's my recollection of the dried Asian store mushrooms

Several people seem to be mistaken by my post above. I was just recounting what I believe Erin said about her version of events. Not that I necessarily believe any of the story to be true, just what she put forth.

I understand there was no actual package of mushrooms besides the button mushrooms from Woolies, Coles, Aldi wherever. I understand she didn't open any package and store any mushrooms for later. I understand there was no Asian store. I understand this was all a cover up to go with her store bought/not foraged story back when the meal occurred. I get all that.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

She foraged for the death cap mushrooms.

I get that. I was paraphrasing what Erin said as to where the mushrooms came from.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I really would like to see ABC sketch artist Rocco Fazzari’s impression of Erin. He did a fabulous sketch of another alleged murderer a while back…

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That's bordering on "my weekend job is drawing caricatures down at the local market".

 

[Warshawski]

She used legitimate edible mushrooms in the meals, and then separately mixed dried death caps in another component of the dish (gravy is my guess). She was hoping the place she bought the legitimate mushrooms would be blamed for their deaths imo.

No toxin found in tested gravy. It was found in mushrooms & meat. My guess it seeped from mushrooms to meat, although the meat could’ve also had a sprinkle of powered ‘seasoning’ perhaps

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Shame there probably isn’t room for a sketch artist in the court. The sketches in the past have been helpful in capturing Erin’s character….

April, 2024

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April, 2024

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April, 2025

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I really would like to see ABC sketch artist Rocco Fazzari’s impression of Erin. He did a fabulous sketch of another alleged murderer a while back…

View attachment 586399

My father was a sketch artist at a lot of big trials, as well as a leading Australian artist. But at times, they were also banned during certain trial periods.

I am not sure if that's just for now here. But I think once it 'hots' up a bit there will be more.

It's a valuable purpose in documenting trials where cameras are not permitted

 

[Porky1]

So all is takes is an allegation of misconduct and that juror is gone. The onus is on the juror to prove that it didn't happen, which is usually impossible.

Three more of these and we have a mistrial.

Very poor form, by the juror. I hope they are fined, as a deterrent to others. The cost of a re-trial is enormous.

 

[Warshawski]

As Robert Wasson, the first Westerner to popularise the consumption of hallucinogenic mushrooms, wrote for Harvard University in 1972, “The symptoms of poisoning by the deadly amanitas are distinctive, dramatic and terrifying. To begin with, the lethal amanitas taste good – on this the abundant testimony of victims shows no dissenting voice. Nothing arouses suspicion as the greedy diner consumes his fateful dish; nor does he suspect anything for many hours after.

[...]

When cooking wild mushrooms, [mycologist (fungi expert) at the Royal Botanic Gardens Victoria] Dr Lebel says, “leave half for the coroner”.

The genus Amanita contains about 600 species of agarics, including some of the most toxic known mushrooms found worldwide, as well as some well-regarded edible species (and many species of unknown edibility) -- Wiki

Elegant but deadly: why death cap mushrooms are a forager's nightmare

It’s peak season for wild mushrooms but be careful about picking your own. Just one morsel of the wrong fungus can kill.

www.smh.com.au

The lunch guests did describe their meal as delicious. ..

 

[Porky1]

C

 

[Marg944]

Speaking of sketch artist Rocco, I found a very short podcast of him being interviewed……







This is the sketch from the trial currently under way…

The sketchy future of the courtroom artist - ABC listen

Erin Patterson's mushroom murder trial in regional Victoria is being followed by millions around the world. With no photography allowed in the courtroom, the only image the public has seen of Patterson on trial is a hand-drawn illustration produced by a courtroom sketch artist. What is it like...

www.abc.net.au

 

[Marg944]

My father was a sketch artist at a lot of big trials, as well as a leading Australian artist. But at times, they were also banned during certain trial periods.

I am not sure if that's just for now here. But I think once it 'hots' up a bit there will be more.

It's a valuable purpose in documenting trials where cameras are not permitted

Much respect to you and your Dad, Scoobs! What an interesting career your Dad had! You must be terribly proud of him. Such a gift to be able to draw! Thanks Scoob for sharing.

 

[Ellery84]

My father was a sketch artist at a lot of big trials, as well as a leading Australian artist. But at times, they were also banned during certain trial periods.

I am not sure if that's just for now here. But I think once it 'hots' up a bit there will be more.

It's a valuable purpose in documenting trials where cameras are not permitted

There’s only been one artist allowed once in the court thus far in this case.

I hope the Court will allow another drawing to be made before the trial comes to its conclusion.

 

[Neet_Mc]

.

Yes he was. He said she was eating, but he wasn’t sure how much she ate.

I’m intrigued by the toxicologist’s report that a 70kg person would need about 3 tbsp (50 gr) of the toxin to be fatal. That seems a huge amount ?

It’s just a guess but I think Gail & Heather would have weighed at least 70kg, EP & the men lots more.

As fresh mushrooms it is a significant amount! Let’s just say, not the accidental 1-2 death caps in a bag full of freshly foraged mushrooms.

 

[SouthAussie]

As fresh mushrooms it is a significant amount! Let’s just say, not the accidental 1-2 death caps in a bag full of freshly foraged mushrooms.

I wonder about the global accuracy of his statement. Because I would guess that it all depends how much of the toxin is in each mushroom. Presumably some have more toxin and some have less toxin.

Not the accuracy of the amount of toxin it would take to kill - I am sure he is right - but the global accuracy of what volume of mushrooms that would be.

Other experts have said less can kill a healthy adult. We have seen (previously) that one teaspoon can kill, one Death Cap can kill, a bite of a Death Cap can kill.
Maybe those other experts have measured higher toxicity per mushroom.

imo

ETA: I only say this because I fully expect the defence to put on an expert that says that one or two Death Caps could have killed all of those people. That Erin could have accidently picked one or two Death Caps in her foraging.

 

[Old Soul]

.

Yes he was. He said she was eating, but he wasn’t sure how much she ate.

I’m intrigued by the toxicologist’s report that a 70kg person would need about 3 tbsp (50 gr) of the toxin to be fatal. That seems a huge amount ?

It’s just a guess but I think Gail & Heather would have weighed at least 70kg, EP & the men lots

I wonder about the global accuracy of his statement. Because I would guess that it all depends how much of the toxin is in each mushroom. Presumably some have more toxin and some have less toxin.

Not the accuracy of the amount of toxin it would take to kill - I am sure he is right - but the global accuracy of what volume of mushrooms that would be.

Other experts have said less can kill a healthy adult. We have seen (previously) that one teaspoon can kill, one Death Cap can kill, a bite of a Death Cap can kill.
Maybe those other experts have measured higher toxicity per mushroom.

imo

ETA: I only say this because I fully expect the defence to put on an expert that says that one or two Death Caps could have killed all of those people. That Erin could have accidently picked one or two Death Caps in her foraging.

This caught my attention too.
Just about all the studies I have looked at cited 0.1mg per kg as the lethal dose, not 1mg per kg as Dr Gerostamoulos stated.
0.1mg per kg is not much fresh mushroom at all for a 70kg person.

Either way, I imagine EP would have been very generous in her dosing, otherwise she would have been really pushing Gail Patterson to finish her whole serving.
(Allegedly).

 

[Spectrix]

Yes he was. He said she was eating, but he wasn’t sure how much she ate.

I’m intrigued by the toxicologist’s report that a 70kg person would need about 3 tbsp (50 gr) of the toxin to be fatal. That seems a huge amount ?

It’s just a guess but I think Gail & Heather would have weighed at least 70kg, EP & the men lots more.

50 grams is the estimated amount of fresh mushroom needed (rather than the amount of toxin needed). The amount of toxin, from memory, is 7mg.

As fresh mushrooms it is a significant amount! Let’s just say, not the accidental 1-2 death caps in a bag full of freshly foraged mushrooms.

If we assume that her intention was to kill 5 guests (inc Simon). She would have needed to pick 5 or more reasonably large fresh Deathcaps to do the job. Perhaps 10 or more small ones.

We know that it was dehydrated (and most probably powdered). Mushrooms are approximately 90% water so the estimated required dosage becomes more like 5 grams of dehydrated mushrooms per person. If it was powdered it would be a couple of teaspoons per person.

 

[katydid23]

As fresh mushrooms it is a significant amount! Let’s just say, not the accidental 1-2 death caps in a bag full of freshly foraged mushrooms.

YES, that's what I was thinking too. If she made 4 or 5 Wellingtons, each with equivalent of 1 or 2 full mushrooms, that is a lot. And like you say, it's not like 1 or 2 accidentally got picked.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Mr Claringbold said his doctor told him he was lucky.

"He basically just explained that the mushrooms are an organic thing," he said.

"Their toxin levels aren't going to be consistent; it's not like taking a pill out of a bottle, sometimes some will have more toxin than others and it was just a chance that you didn't ingest enough to overcome."

Dr Jonathan Karro, the director of emergency medicine at St Vincent's Hospital in Melbourne, is a clinical toxicologist and specialises in treating patients who have been poisoned.

"It's extremely dangerous. Even one mushroom can kill an adult patient and even more so in a child," he told 7.30."

'I thought it was the end': Death cap mushroom survivor recounts brush with death

With the country gripped by the mystery surrounding the death of three elderly Victorians from suspected death cap mushroom poisoning, Simon Claringbold knows better than most how dangerous the fungus can be.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

YES, that's what I was thinking too. If she made 4 or 5 Wellingtons, each with equivalent of 1 or 2 full mushrooms, that is a lot. And like you say, it's not like 1 or 2 accidentally got picked.

They probably grow in a cluster, and she picked the whole cluster.
As well, the entire Death Cap is poisonous. Stem included.

imo


I would wear some form of glove to separate my hands from actually touching the Death Caps. Each cluster must be removed early, before the little umbrella opens up.

A STROLL THROUGH THE GARDEN Sharing some ideas to battle Death Cap mushrooms in yards

A few years ago, a reader sent me an email about identifying a mushroom in his lawn. As time has progressed, I am starting to learn more about these fascinating creations.

www.times-gazette.com

 

[Old Soul]

50 grams is the estimated amount of fresh mushroom needed (rather than the amount of toxin needed). The amount of toxin, from memory, is 7mg.


If we assume that her intention was to kill 5 guests (inc Simon). She would have needed to pick 5 or more reasonably large fresh Deathcaps to do the job. Perhaps 10 or more small ones.

We know that it was dehydrated (and most probably powdered). Mushrooms are approximately 90% water so the estimated required dosage becomes more like 5 grams of dehydrated mushrooms per person. If it was powdered it would be a couple of teaspoons per person.

Ahh that makes sense, thanks