GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[Tortoise]

I’m only just catching up, so maybe this has been said already.
I was thinking that maybe she constructed the story of her son having a sore tummy, to support the idea that she got slightly sick as well after having eaten the leftovers. In her mind, since she said she had scraped off the shrooms, her son could have gotten slightly sick as well from eating leftovers. If I remember correctly, it had been claimed the son ate more of the leftovers than her daughter, so It could support Erin‘s claim that she got sick as well and that everyone, except of her daughter had symptoms.

If I'm not mistaken, I think she gave the kids the 'leftovers' on the Sunday night? If so, that would have been after she said he had a sore tummy and wanted to skip church.

 

[jesse]

Harry?

I would have said the other one.

 

[jesse]

If so, the cat and mouse game was never going play out as possibly scripted. And, the incident was flagged/suspected as poisoning so quickly. Simon shared with a friend that he suspected tampering with his food. I imagine he shared this with his father as well.

He did. And his GP.

 

[jesse]

Well, you certainly won't be doxed by me. I don't log in to my Tik Tok account when posting links. Anyway I won't be posting any more links and probably anything else for that matter. I can't be done with the drama.

I genuinely have no idea how anyone would be doxed by opening a TikTok link.

 

[Monstradamus]

And didn’t she also claim fairly late that the mushrooms from the Asian grocer (but conveniently, she doesn’t remember which Asian grocer exactly she got them from) were a bit rubbery, so she put them in her dehydrator to crisp them up? Didn’t she say that before she came up with the claim she might have foraged and accidentally put the foraged and dehydrated mushrooms in the same Tupperware as the mushrooms from the Asian grocer?

I believe she testified that the Tupperware mushrooms were too crispy, and she soaked them in water before adding them to the BW, pressing them in with an egg flip?
Strange that no pieces were found in the leftovers, only DC DNA, so one would assume they were dried and powdered.

 

[SouthAussie]

"The aviation sector was once home to two of the nation's most high-profile murderers, however, documents reveal Airservices Australia and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority have not reviewed their systems of psychometric testing.

The ABC sought documents through the Freedom of Information (FOI) process about former air traffic controller Erin Patterson, former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn and the testing used to assess the suitability of people in the aviation industry.

"Aviation medical examiners, community consulting medical practitioners and the CASA Medical Officers together apply their extensive clinical and aviation medical experience to work with the person holding the certificate, to ensure their mental health is not an issue for their aviation activities," CASA said.

"Personality and behaviour issues are not the same as issues with mental health or the presence of mental illness, although they can be linked." "

No aviation psychometric test review after Erin Patterson, Greg Lynn cases

The aviation sector has been home to two of the nation's most high-profile murderers, however, documents reveal Airservices Australia and CASA have not reviewed their systems of psychometric testing.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Marg944]

Turns out Erin’s car rego is due today…..

 

[SouthAussie]

"As Erin Patterson prepares to face sentencing after being convicted on three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder last week, many who knew the Mushroom Killer are starting to open up about what she was really like.

“She was quite aggressive in the way she spoke to people,”

“She wasn’t necessarily always unpleasant to be around but you tended to be wary that she could snap or say something unpleasant at the drop of a hat.”

Another colleague described Patterson, 50, as a strange loner who was the only one in their group who rejected all invitations to social activities.

Patterson’s two teenage kids, who cannot be named due to a suppression order, would visit their mum during the trial, where Patterson was heard asking a friend to give them “extra hugs”. "

The real Erin Patterson exposed!

As Erin Patterson prepares to face sentencing, many who knew the Mushroom Killer are starting to open up about what she was really like.

www.nowtolove.com.au

 

[Hercule Holmes]

Over the past couple of days, I've been thinking about this idea that EP was really intelligent, and how this has been used to defend the idea that she wouldn't have planned something so badly. Regardless of whether people think she is innocent or guilty, almost all essentially agree that Erin acted out of panic in the days following the lunch.

Innocent - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic and a result of trying to cover up her culpability for their deaths.

Guilty - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic as a result of not suspecting they would identify the Death Caps and therefore not expecting she would be caught.

Whilst there was clearly some degree of panic, I'm going to argue that rather than being a panicked response, many of EP's actions were maybe a reflection that she wasn't as thorough or dare I say clever as people think she was.

Take the most obvious example: the disposing of the dehydrator at the tip. Obviously, this was a very stressful time but it wasn't a decision made in absolute panic. She spent the previous day presumably sitting around in hospital and obviously realised at this point that she needed to cover her tracks. However, despite this her plan for covering up was really poor. She forgot that she still had the manual and didn't seem to consider that it would be obviously traceable from the tip. Even if she was innocent, this is a real rookie mistake to make. There were much better ways of getting rid of it even in a panic.

Then you have the search at the house, and the police interview. These happened almost a week after the meal. Again, regardless of guilt this must have been stressful, but this is a long time to consider how she could best get herself out of the mess that she was in. The result was an utter mess: she decided literally at the last minute to get rid of her main phone. She factory reset one of her phones multiple times. You'd think she would have been aware of how incriminating this would look and how easy it would have been to identify and have thought of a better solution.

She also had adequate time to get her story straight before the second interview. The most obvious way to make her situation better would have been to admit to foraging very early on. You could argue that the Woolworths and Asian grocer story was a panicked answer at her first police interview, but she sat there for a whole week and decided to stick with it clearly thinking it was her best bet. In reality, it was a terrible answer at that time and one that again massively incriminated her when she didn't admit to foraging until 2 years later.

Maybe she wasn't as clever as everybody thinks, or at the very least clever in a different non-common sensical way.

I thought initially along the lines of the super smart plan, months in the making. Every contingency covered, depending on how things panned out. I've mentioned mushroom gravy brought by a (now deceased) guest in the orange cake container etc.

I now lean towards her being "handed" the plan via reading it in a book. We've seen "The Chalet" mentioned, but I favour Bonnie Garmus' "Lessons in Chemistry". All it really required was the procuring of the death caps and hiding them in a suitable meal. It totally relied on them all dying before too much information could be revealed. Then, as the book said, just play the dumb housewife who has made a terrible mistake.

Some thinking had to go into obtaining the death caps. Even that was poorly done if she was smart. Do the researching at the library, not on her own devices. Don't take her phone with her to incriminating locations. Don't post stuff about dehydrating anything, no-one needed to know that.

The meal itself was well thought out, but it relied upon dead people telling no tales. The individual portions and colored plates were great, until Simon knew about it.

When the plan revolved around playing the dumb housewife in the aftermath, she wasn't well equipped to deal with a situation that called for anything but dumb. Given the cards she was dealt, she played the best hand she could, by retrofitting her story (lies) to the evidence. Thankfully, 12 of her peers saw straight through her bungling.

 

[LinasK]

I thought initially along the lines of the super smart plan, months in the making. Every contingency covered, depending on how things panned out. I've mentioned mushroom gravy brought by a (now deceased) guest in the orange cake container etc.

I now lean towards her being "handed" the plan via reading it in a book. We've seen "The Chalet" mentioned, but I favour Bonnie Garmus' "Lessons in Chemistry". All it really required was the procuring of the death caps and hiding them in a suitable meal. It totally relied on them all dying before too much information could be revealed. Then, as the book said, just play the dumb housewife who has made a terrible mistake.

Some thinking had to go into obtaining the death caps. Even that was poorly done if she was smart. Do the researching at the library, not on her own devices. Don't take her phone with her to incriminating locations. Don't post stuff about dehydrating anything, no-one needed to know that.

The meal itself was well thought out, but it relied upon dead people telling no tales. The individual portions and colored plates were great, until Simon knew about it.

When the plan revolved around playing the dumb housewife in the aftermath, she wasn't well equipped to deal with a situation that called for anything but dumb. Given the cards she was dealt, she played the best hand she could, by retrofitting her story (lies) to the evidence. Thankfully, 12 of her peers saw straight through her bungling.

Or use your dehydrator for other things-purposes beyond just specifically for mushrooms. Tomatoes for example.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I’m only just catching up, so maybe this has been said already.
I was thinking that maybe she constructed the story of her son having a sore tummy, to support the idea that she got slightly sick as well after having eaten the leftovers. In her mind, since she said she had scraped off the shrooms, her son could have gotten slightly sick as well from eating leftovers. If I remember correctly, it had been claimed the son ate more of the leftovers than her daughter, so It could support Erin‘s claim that she got sick as well and that everyone, except of her daughter had symptoms.

If I'm not mistaken, I think she gave the kids the 'leftovers' on the Sunday night? If so, that would have been after she said he had a sore tummy and wanted to skip church.

The fatal lunch was on Saturday, Erin says she became unwell Saturday night, son allegedly woke Sunday with a stomach ache, Sunday morning church was cancelled as a result, Sunday afternoon was spent driving to the flying lesson that was cancelled last minute/pooing by the roadside/stopping multiple times for snacks and a 9 second toilet trip, Sunday night the kids were fed "leftovers" with the mushrooms scraped off, allegedly..

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I thought initially along the lines of the super smart plan, months in the making. Every contingency covered, depending on how things panned out. I've mentioned mushroom gravy brought by a (now deceased) guest in the orange cake container etc.

I now lean towards her being "handed" the plan via reading it in a book. We've seen "The Chalet" mentioned, but I favour Bonnie Garmus' "Lessons in Chemistry". All it really required was the procuring of the death caps and hiding them in a suitable meal. It totally relied on them all dying before too much information could be revealed. Then, as the book said, just play the dumb housewife who has made a terrible mistake.

Some thinking had to go into obtaining the death caps. Even that was poorly done if she was smart. Do the researching at the library, not on her own devices. Don't take her phone with her to incriminating locations. Don't post stuff about dehydrating anything, no-one needed to know that.

The meal itself was well thought out, but it relied upon dead people telling no tales. The individual portions and colored plates were great, until Simon knew about it.

When the plan revolved around playing the dumb housewife in the aftermath, she wasn't well equipped to deal with a situation that called for anything but dumb. Given the cards she was dealt, she played the best hand she could, by retrofitting her story (lies) to the evidence. Thankfully, 12 of her peers saw straight through her bungling.

I agree that she may have come across the plan in a fictional book, and taken it on board.

However, is she were really very smart, calculated and good at research and deep diving into topics (or people, same, same) of her choosing, she would have covered all the bases and not just expected they'd all die quickly before speaking out. A true planner, with intelligence enough to know that even the best laid plans can go awry, would do a mental flowchart to cover off every possible scenario. If A happens, do X, if B happens do X,Y and Z etc. The best planners do this, so there's never any surprises and there's an answer and reason for everything. One that makes sense to the masses and not just one person's warped way of thinking.

Or...

Could she not see past her "brilliant" plan, and felt far superior to anyone who might look into the circumstances of their deaths. Did her mind not even entertain the thought that there would be questions about how/when/where/why/what caused their deaths? Is that where her psychopath/sociopath character comes into play?

 

[Hercule Holmes]

I agree that she may have come across the plan in a fictional book, and taken it on board.

However, is she were really very smart, calculated and good at research and deep diving into topics (or people, same, same) of her choosing, she would have covered all the bases and not just expected they'd all die quickly before speaking out. A true planner, with intelligence enough to know that even the best laid plans can go awry, would do a mental flowchart to cover off every possible scenario. If A happens, do X, if B happens do X,Y and Z etc. The best planners do this, so there's never any surprises and there's an answer and reason for everything. One that makes sense to the masses and not just one person's warped way of thinking.

Or...

Could she not see past her "brilliant" plan, and felt far superior to anyone who might look into the circumstances of their deaths. Did her mind not even entertain the thought that there would be questions about how/when/where/why/what caused their deaths? Is that where her psychopath/sociopath character comes into play?

I think she expected 2 potential scenarios.

1) They'd die at home with the cause unknown. Never linked to any event or person in particular. Relied on the DC's being undetectable after 48 hours. Whether she factored in the likelihood of them being detected in an autopsy is unknown (phone A might answer that). The liver would have telltale signs of being damaged by the DC poison.

2) The cause became known and it was linked back to her lunch. Then play the dumb housewife who accidentally foraged the wrong type of mushrooms. A terrible accident.

I think if she had to factor in more than those 2 scenarios, she very likely wouldn't have done it.

 

[LinasK]

I think she expected 2 potential scenarios.

1) They'd die at home with the cause unknown. Never linked to any event or person in particular. Relied on the DC's being undetectable after 48 hours. Whether she factored in the likelihood of them being detected in an autopsy is unknown (phone A might answer that). The liver would have telltale signs of being damaged by the DC poison.

2) The cause became known and it was linked back to her lunch. Then play the dumb housewife who accidentally foraged the wrong type of mushrooms. A terrible accident.

I think if she had to factor in more than those 2 scenarios, she very likely wouldn't have done it.

She did eventually settle on #2 once the ER doc revealed that he was onto her, and there was NO "Asian" grocer or ANY grocer that sold Death Cap mushrooms. No one sells mushrooms anyhow that are wrapped in Saran Wrap with hand-written labels. That's just sketchy and no one would buy them. I doubt they even do that at Farmer's Markets where you buy directly from the farmer.

 

[Lisa4]

I would have said the other one.

Another NPD case if ever I saw one

 

[Lisa4]

I think she expected 2 potential scenarios.

1) They'd die at home with the cause unknown. Never linked to any event or person in particular. Relied on the DC's being undetectable after 48 hours. Whether she factored in the likelihood of them being detected in an autopsy is unknown (phone A might answer that). The liver would have telltale signs of being damaged by the DC poison.

2) The cause became known and it was linked back to her lunch. Then play the dumb housewife who accidentally foraged the wrong type of mushrooms. A terrible accident.

I think if she had to factor in more than those 2 scenarios, she very likely wouldn't have done it.

I don't believe she considered scenario 2 for a nanosecond of her planning.

She was absolutely confident that scenario 1 would unfold precisely as she planned it.

She had every reason to predict that both couples would put it down to gastro and she was almost right. Dont forget the Wilkinsons were indeed home sleeping it off that Sunday morning.

BUT in her all her planning, SHE WAS UNAWARE of one critical fact: that SP had a suspicion that she had poisoned him before and he had voiced it to DP.

If not for that - would she have succeeded?

Was testing for DCs after death possible then? Why would this test even have been done? It was the depths of winter - not autumn mushrooming season.

I really don't think they would have carried out that DC test. Even at the time, the chief toxicologist considered it highly unlikely.

We will never know whether it was only those tiny sneaking suspicions from Simon that caught her out, - eta but I believe it to be a very high possibility.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I don't believe she considered scenario 2 for a nanosecond of her planning.

She was absolutely confident that scenario 1 would unfold precisely as she planned it.

She had every reason to predict that both couples would put it down to gastro and she was almost right. Dont forget the Wilkinsons were indeed home sleeping it off that Sunday morning.

BUT in her all her planning, SHE WAS UNAWARE of one critical fact: that SP had a suspicion that she had poisoned him before and he had voiced it to DP.

If not for that - would she have succeeded?

Was testing for DCs after death possible then? Why would this test even have been done? It was the depths of winter - not autumn mushrooming season.

I really don't think they would have carried out that DC test. Even at the time, the chief toxicologist considered it highly unlikely.

We will never know whether it was only those tiny sneaking suspicions from Simon that caught her out, - eta but I believe it to be a very high possibility.

BBM

Given everything that happened and can't be changed, wouldn't this be a tiny bit of joy/satisfaction/revenge/whatever you want to call it for Simon to have caught her out, perhaps with some help from Don, who had been told about Simon's suspicions in the past? Between them I think they brought the poisoning thought to the surface, and acted accordingly, seeking medical help and explaining what meal was served, off what plates, what Erin did and didn't do during the lunch etc. It's just a shame that despite this, it wasn't enough to keep 3 out of 4 of them alive.

 

[LinasK]

BBM

Given everything that happened and can't be changed, wouldn't this be a tiny bit of joy/satisfaction/revenge/whatever you want to call it for Simon to have caught her out, perhaps with some help from Don, who had been told about Simon's suspicions in the past? Between them I think they brought the poisoning thought to the surface, and acted accordingly, seeking medical help and explaining what meal was served, off what plates, what Erin did and didn't do during the lunch etc. It's just a shame that despite this, it wasn't enough to keep 3 out of 4 of them alive.

If only Don hadn't cautioned Simon about warning others about Erin's previous attempts to poison him. and if only they had all declined her luncheon, or sought immediate medical attention. Thank God Ian was still around to bear witness about the different colored plates and the Cancer lie. To think that they prayed over her as this evil woman watched them ingest the poisoned meal and knew that they were going to die.

 

[wallyworld]

A pretty good recap here on A Current Affair:

(a motza: A large sum of money, a windfall.)

she is like a caged lion when she is trying to get out of the hospital

 

[wallyworld]

"The aviation sector was once home to two of the nation's most high-profile murderers, however, documents reveal Airservices Australia and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority have not reviewed their systems of psychometric testing.

The ABC sought documents through the Freedom of Information (FOI) process about former air traffic controller Erin Patterson, former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn and the testing used to assess the suitability of people in the aviation industry.

"Aviation medical examiners, community consulting medical practitioners and the CASA Medical Officers together apply their extensive clinical and aviation medical experience to work with the person holding the certificate, to ensure their mental health is not an issue for their aviation activities," CASA said.

"Personality and behaviour issues are not the same as issues with mental health or the presence of mental illness, although they can be linked." "

No aviation psychometric test review after Erin Patterson, Greg Lynn cases

The aviation sector has been home to two of the nation's most high-profile murderers, however, documents reveal Airservices Australia and CASA have not reviewed their systems of psychometric testing.

www.abc.net.au

Great post! I have wondered about the level of psych testing done for the aviation training.