GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[MrJ]

The prosecution never presented any evidence to refute this (eg evidence that Erin didn't have an eating disorder, or that vomiting wouldn't have stopped absorption of the amatoxins), so I lean towards it being the most plausible explanation.

I suggest to you that the reason the prosecution didn't have any witnesses was because this would have been new to them. I also suggest that Erin changed her story several times that the prosecution could not have known about until she got on the stand

 

[wallyworld]

Exactly. I don't really have an opinion about whether Erin did it, I just came away from the trial very unimpressed by the prosecution's evidence and am wondering how a jury would get to beyond reasonable doubt. I came here because you all seem very convinced and I hoped I might get some answers, but so far it's just been personal attacks and overstating the evidence.


This is a good question! It depends whether you believe Erin's testimony or not. She says she has an eating disorder and vomited after the lunch, I happen to find that believable because it's consistent with her other behaviour (eg having an existing appointment at a clinic for possible cosmetic medical intervention). The prosecution never presented any evidence to refute this (eg evidence that Erin didn't have an eating disorder, or that vomiting wouldn't have stopped absorption of the amatoxins), so I lean towards it being the most plausible explanation.

I also think we need to be careful not to make blanket statements like 'Erin never got death cap poisoning". She was treated in hospital and had symptoms consistent with death cap poisoning, albeit much milder than the others. Remember it was established during the trial there are 4 levels of death cap poisoning and not all patients reach beyond the first level. Also note there were beta-amanatins in the leftovers at Erin's house.

I am fairly comfortable making a blanket statement
ERIN PATTERSON IS GUILTY
The Jury has reached it's verdict

 

[SilentHill]

This case hasn't been in the slightest bit helpful for my insomnia

 

[musicaljoke]

Does anyone care to speculated on the sentence she will receive? I expect she will receive a life sentence with no parole for 25 years. Her crime is really horrendous, possibly one of the worst murders in Australia. It was clearly premeditated and time consuming, detailed plans were laid in place. She invited her victims to her own home and to their death.

"Come into my parlor," said the spider to the fly.

 

[MrJ]

Does anyone care to speculated on the sentence she will receive? I expect she will receive a life sentence with no parole for 25 years. Her crime is really horrendous, possibly one of the worst murders in Australia. It was clearly premeditated and time consuming, detailed plans were laid in place. She invited her victims to her own home and to their death.

"Come into my parlor," said the spider to the fly.

I agree. It has to be life without parole given the gravity of the crimes

 

[mmatk]

I suggest to you that the reason the prosecution didn't have any witnesses was because this would have been new to them. I also suggest that Erin changed her story several times that the prosecution could not have known about until she got on the stand

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. <modsnip: Blatant generalization re LE >

 

[LadyL]

Are you thinking that her goal was to make them really sick, like she had done with her husband, but she didn't want them to die?

There were four times her husband was in hospital for poisoning. The fifth suspected attempt - cookies - he did not eat them because she repeatedly asked whether he ate them.

"What the jury was never told, however, is what exactly had made this outwardly unremarkable father of two feel so very ‘uncomfortable’ about the prospect of being fed by his wife in the first place. And therein lies a drama, or perhaps tragedy, of Shakesperean proportions.
[...]

On four occasions after eating Erin’s food, Simon said he’d ended up in hospital. Twice, he’d nearly died. ... Later he told family members, appearing to conclude that his symptoms could also be consistent with ingesting either rat poison, or hemlock, the deadly plant.
[...]

The first attempted poisoning came in November 2021, when they were due to go on a family trip to Wilson’s Promontory, a beauty spot in south-east Victoria. On the eve of their departure, Erin fed him ‘penne pasta Bolognese,’ from a Tupperware container in the fridge.

He began vomiting the following morning, continued being sick during the car journey, and was eventually admitted to hospital where doctors became concerned that soaring creatine levels in his blood indicated impending kidney failure. After five days on a drip, his condition stabilised and he was discharged.
[...]

May 2022 ... She gave Simon a portion of his chosen dish on the second night, and he began to feel ill within hours. ‘At first I felt hot, especially in my head and that led to feeling nauseous and that led to me quite suddenly needing to vomit and then after vomiting I started to have diarrhoea.'

Simon was discharged, but then collapsed after returning home, and was rushed back to hospital where surgeons performed three life-saving operations that saw a large portion of his bowel removed. During this period, he was in a coma for 16 days and stayed in intensive care for three weeks. On two occasions, his family were called in to say farewell, because doctors believed he could not be saved.
[...]

July 2022, and after three weeks’ largely successful recuperation at her home, Erin decided to again serve another big meal. This time, it was a beef stew, which Simon ate for lunch. Again, illness struck in the dead of night, leading to another brief hospitalisation.

That September, during a return camping trip to Wilson’s Promontory, she served up a chicken wrap which, he said, caused him to first start vomiting and then lose muscle function. ‘By the end I could only move my neck, tongue and lips,’ he said, recalling yet another hospital stay during which he also suffered a series of fits."

The shocking secret about mushroom killer Erin Patterson

In the end, Erin Trudi Patterson's fate was sealed by her lies. She lied about deliberately picking death cap mushrooms. She lied about buying and using a Sunbeam food dehydrator...

www.dailymail.co.uk

you would think the hospital staff would be questioning why he repeatedly had food poisoning or maybe they did ... I'd be curious to know what they said when he came in for the 3rd and 4th time, especially after being in a coma and almost dying the 2nd time

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. Just because the police are dumb doesn't mean Erin is guilty.

Well her phone A must have had incriminating evidence or she wouldn't got rid of it. Also she obviously did the factory reset to delete more incriminating evidence...

 

[MrJ]

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. Just because the police are dumb doesn't mean Erin is guilty.

Respectfully she has been found guilty by a court of law. And the prosecution also did their best when they had last minute evidence ep gave.

 

[Deleted member 194006]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... the inference that Erin’s bullimia must be true because she had a weight loss appointment at Enrich. They should look up who Priscilla Auyeng is at Enrich. Erin had an appointment with an ALLERGIST at Enrich.

“The jury is shown a record of a text message confirming Erin’s appointment at the clinic with Priscilla Auyeung, which she confirms was cancelled on September 11, 2023.”

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Exactly. I don't really have an opinion about whether Erin did it, I just came away from the trial very unimpressed by the prosecution's evidence and am wondering how a jury would get to beyond reasonable doubt. I came here because you all seem very convinced and I hoped I might get some answers, but so far it's just been personal attacks and overstating the evidence.


This is a good question! It depends whether you believe Erin's testimony or not. She says she has an eating disorder and vomited after the lunch, I happen to find that believable because it's consistent with her other behaviour (eg having an existing appointment at a clinic for possible cosmetic medical intervention). The prosecution never presented any evidence to refute this (eg evidence that Erin didn't have an eating disorder, or that vomiting wouldn't have stopped absorption of the amatoxins), so I lean towards it being the most plausible explanation.

I also think we need to be careful not to make blanket statements like 'Erin never got death cap poisoning". She was treated in hospital and had symptoms consistent with death cap poisoning, albeit much milder than the others. Remember it was established during the trial there are 4 levels of death cap poisoning and not all patients reach beyond the first level. Also note there were beta-amanatins in the leftovers at Erin's house.

She told hospital staff that she couldn't be admitted for treatment as she had to go home to sort out her animals and pack her daughter's ballet bag. She couldn't wait to hot foot it out of there after being questioned by Dr Webster. Also she says that her children ate leftovers, but she didn't want to worry them by bringing them into hospital...

 

[sassyblue]

This is hilarious!

@sassyblue , how did you get the laughing emoji?

Websleuths Guardian....look up to the top of the screen to the link.

 

[MrJ]

Btw it takes approximately 50g of death caps to kill a person. There's just no way Erin would've had a milder reaction if she ate some of them

 

[Monstradamus]

Does anyone care to speculated on the sentence she will receive? I expect she will receive a life sentence with no parole for 25 years. Her crime is really horrendous, possibly one of the worst murders in Australia. It was clearly premeditated and time consuming, detailed plans were laid in place. She invited her victims to her own home and to their death.

"Come into my parlor," said the spider to the fly.

I'm thinking 25 years for 3 x Murder, served concurrently (so only 25 years) and 10 years for Attempted Murder. 35 years all up, she will be 83 when released (taking into account time served). Justice Beale is known for lighter sentencing, but a previous light sentence (Borse Ristevski - Manslaughter of his wife, Karen) was increased from 9 years to 13 years through the Court of Appeal, after the DPP challenged the sentence.

 

[Jake18]

Btw it takes approximately 50g of death caps to kill a person. There's just no way Erin would've had a milder reaction if she ate some of them

I have tried to look for cases of “mild” death cap poisoning and haven’t found a single case where a sufferer didn’t have some degree of elevation of liver enzymes, from the toxin.

Erin’s liver enzymes were normal.

I also defy anyone to look at that picture of the greenish drying mushrooms Erin took and think - “Yeah, they look harmless and delicious”.

ETA : I tried to find the original German study and couldn’t find it, did the defence actually submit it as evidence? Or just discuss it.

 

[SilentHill]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

So do you genuinely think she panicked because she was under suspicion and wiped the data from her phone that would have proved her innocence because she was concerned about being blamed for the deaths? Does that seem like rational behavior to you under the circumstances? <modsnip>

 

[Monstradamus]

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. <modsnip: Blatant generalization re LE >

It's the Prosecution's job to anticipate previously unheard, unsubstantiated evidence by a proven liar. I think they did that very well, imo. Dr Rogers brought the whole case together brilliantly for the Jury, and if you look at the entire picture there really was only one conclusion they could reach. The Police also did an amazing job, and Health Authorities, imo.
Erin lied, obfuscated, tampered with evidence and perjured herself.
She's not guilty because she's a liar,<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>
She's guilty because she planned and executed an evil plan, and very nearly got away with it.

Guilty x 4.

RIP Heather, Gail and Don.

 

[Lisa4]

I'm reaching out to those here who believe she is or may be innocent - I would genuinely welcome hearing your perspective, on the basis that you are here genuinely seeking to understand.

If you're open to continuing on this basis, could you please share what the key things are that give you doubt about her guilt? I'm not here to argue or attack or even persuade - I’m just asking from a place of genuine interest and a desire for mature, respectful conversation.

I understand that people can see the same situation in very different ways, and I want to understand how you've come to your conclusions. All I ask is that we keep the conversation civil and rooted in a mutual willingness to listen and consider.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

PS I have been hopeful throughout the past weeks that someone would be willing to engage.
I trust all participators can "play nice" so that we can at least hear from "the other side". I don't discuss this much in real life and haven't come across anyone who feels this way, hence my keen desire to understand from those here who do.

 

[Hercule Holmes]

She couldn't even fake any concern for them or even fake concern that her children may have consumed deadly DC's.
That is what I find completely baffling about her.

This is where I struggle with her going ahead after Simon didn't attend.

She had the intellect to formulate the plan, but it clearly revolved around them all being dead, with no certainty about what happened. If she was queried, she had answers prepared to at least create doubt. Best case, it was never even linked back to her.

Once Simon didn't come, she had to be aware it would come down to a "he said, she said" scenario, where the ability to play "the appropriate role" was going to be necessary. Was she really just going to rely on disposal of evidence and bare-faced lies?

With what we know now, Simon was going to immediately suspect what happened and cause her serious issues. Was she just planning to torment him for the rest of his life, with him knowing, but unable to prove it? Relying on cold, hard facts (her version thereof) and not realising her cold, hard demeanour would be a strong indicator of guilt?

You have to wonder whether an unfortunate accident may have befallen Simon in the days following the lunch, if the others had all quietly deteriorated without revealing anything to authorities. Otherwise, what the hell was she thinking in terms of how it would play out?

 

[LinasK]

Exactly. I don't really have an opinion about whether Erin did it, I just came away from the trial very unimpressed by the prosecution's evidence and am wondering how a jury would get to beyond reasonable doubt. I came here because you all seem very convinced and I hoped I might get some answers, but so far it's just been personal attacks and overstating the evidence.


This is a good question! It depends whether you believe Erin's testimony or not. She says she has an eating disorder and vomited after the lunch, I happen to find that believable because it's consistent with her other behaviour (eg having an existing appointment at a clinic for possible cosmetic medical intervention). The prosecution never presented any evidence to refute this (eg evidence that Erin didn't have an eating disorder, or that vomiting wouldn't have stopped absorption of the amatoxins), so I lean towards it being the most plausible explanation.

I also think we need to be careful not to make blanket statements like 'Erin never got death cap poisoning". She was treated in hospital and had symptoms consistent with death cap poisoning, albeit much milder than the others. Remember it was established during the trial there are 4 levels of death cap poisoning and not all patients reach beyond the first level. Also note there were beta-amanatins in the leftovers at Erin's house.

Okay falsehood right there- 1) it was PROVEN that Erin never made an existing appointment for ANY medical procedure- whether cosmetic or otherwise. No appointments for Cancer, nor any for Gastric Bypass nor even Liposuction. It was a lure to get the relatives over for lunch.
2) She did NOT have symptoms in the hospital consistent with DC poisoning. In fact, it was never established for a fact that she had vomiting or diarhhea! Only the word of a known liar. Her urine was liquid, no stool in it.