GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[MrJ]

Otherwise, what the hell was she thinking in terms of how it would play out?

She wasn't thinking. Her plan really hinged on them all being dead with no plan B or C or D. Arrogance and coldness, terrible combo. Jmo

 

[jesse]

No, its not the egg shells part. I mean all these cooking-related prison stories coming out about her. Highly doubt she's ever been let near the kitchen.

I feel like fellow prisoners might be making up stories. Another poster shared a link saying the prison themselves have denied it.

Apparently it all comes from a prison incident report that's presumably available to the public?

I'm not saying it's true or untrue, but I do think I read that she was in a pod with 5 other prisoners that I think had a kitchen?

 

[LinasK]

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. Just because the police are dumb doesn't mean Erin is guilty.

Just because the police might have been sloppy in securing the phone, doesn't make her innocent. Innocent people don't attempt to reset phones in police custody. And I've yet to see the personal attacks on her that you are claiming here. I think you are here to defend her and try to change minds about the verdict. The prosecution clearly DID refute the defense's position, because they secured a unanimous guilty verdict from 12 people who did their due diligence and took over a week to review the evidence. It wasn't a snap decision.

 

[LinasK]

Btw it takes approximately 50g of death caps to kill a person. There's just no way Erin would've had a milder reaction if she ate some of them

Yes, because she ate as much of her portion as Gail did- 1/2, which was enough to kill Gail.

 

[Lisa4]

This is where I struggle with her going ahead after Simon didn't attend.

I haven't been able to determine exactly when she really realised/accepted for certain that he wasn't coming. Anyone know this?

 

[LinasK]

She wasn't thinking. Her plan really hinged on them all being dead with no plan B or C or D. Arrogance and coldness, terrible combo. Jmo

Or tormenting Simon with the loss of his relatives if she couldn't lure him to eat.

 

[Eloise]

Apparently it all comes from a prison incident report that's presumably available to the public?

I'm not saying it's true or untrue, but I do think I read that she was in a pod with 5 other prisoners that I think had a kitchen?

so far its only been in the Herald Sun and the Daily Mail afaik and just personally I take everything in both those publications with a grain of salt if I've not seen it backed up by other outlets. (I do always appreciate the vast amounts of photos the DM publishes though)

 

[LadyL]

Exactly. I don't really have an opinion about whether Erin did it, I just came away from the trial very unimpressed by the prosecution's evidence and am wondering how a jury would get to beyond reasonable doubt. I came here because you all seem very convinced and I hoped I might get some answers, but so far it's just been personal attacks and overstating the evidence.


This is a good question! It depends whether you believe Erin's testimony or not. She says she has an eating disorder and vomited after the lunch, I happen to find that believable because it's consistent with her other behaviour (eg having an existing appointment at a clinic for possible cosmetic medical intervention). The prosecution never presented any evidence to refute this (eg evidence that Erin didn't have an eating disorder, or that vomiting wouldn't have stopped absorption of the amatoxins), so I lean towards it being the most plausible explanation.

I also think we need to be careful not to make blanket statements like 'Erin never got death cap poisoning". She was treated in hospital and had symptoms consistent with death cap poisoning, albeit much milder than the others. Remember it was established during the trial there are 4 levels of death cap poisoning and not all patients reach beyond the first level. Also note there were beta-amanatins in the leftovers at Erin's house.

[bbm]

the clinic that she supposedly had an app't at didn't even offer the type of surgery she claimed to be getting from them so her supposed eating disorder is likely a lie just like all her other lies

 

[LinasK]

I was, too. I'm the furthest thing from an EP Stan, and I certainly wouldn't be calling or writing and complaining, but...his statements did strike me as a bit unprofessional.

I would go to him as an ER doc. He had a duty to warn and he did. His feelings are human. I don't fault him for his comments. It was an honest reaction to her behavior.

 

[Eloise]

I would go to him as an ER doc. He had a duty to warn and he did. His feelings are human. I don't fault him for his comments. It was an honest reaction to her behavior.

Same. I would too. That said by this public statement made by the hospital, reading between the lines it sounds like he no longer works there

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1351769033115691&id=100048478220474

bbm

We note that this has been a criminal trial, and all current GSHS staff called to give evidence have refrained from commenting outside of the courtroom.

 

[Scuffy35]

RSBM

I also think we need to be careful not to make blanket statements like 'Erin never got death cap poisoning". She was treated in hospital and had symptoms consistent with death cap poisoning, albeit much milder than the others. Remember it was established during the trial there are 4 levels of death cap poisoning and not all patients reach beyond the first level. Also note there were beta-amanatins in the leftovers at Erin's house.

I don't think her symptoms were consistent with death cap poisoning at all. Even the potassium levels, which were reported to be lower, were still within normal limits.

If she actually has some amount of death cap poisoning, in my opinion she would have some amount of liver damage. A significant percentage of the toxin heads straight to the liver, as I think it was SouthAussie had posted earlier.

 

[LinasK]

Same. I would too. That said by this public statement made by the hospital, reading between the lines it sounds like he no longer works there

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1351769033115691&id=100048478220474

bbm

Then I hope he left prior to the verdict and was free to comment personally, and not let go because of his comments.

 

[LinasK]

I don't think her symptoms were consistent with death cap poisoning at all. Even the potassium levels, which were reported to be lower, were still within normal limits.

If she actually has some amount of death cap poisoning, in my opinion she would have some amount of liver damage. A significant percentage of the toxin heads straight to the liver, as I think it was SouthAussie had posted earlier.

And perhaps her low potassium levels can be accounted for by mild dehydration, which could have been caused by her coffee consumption. Coffee is a diuretic.

 

[Eloise]

Then I hope he left prior to the verdict and was free to comment personally, and not let go because of his comments.

Same. Made me wonder though. I hope it turns out he just left of his own accord at some point after the murders.

 

[LadyL]

I agree, I'm just not willing to give the prosecution any credit for it. It's their job to anticipate the defence's position and adduce evidence to refute it. They failed to do so, that doesn't mean Erin's testimony is any less plausible.

Same thing with the phones. The police clearly messed up and didn't seize Erin's main phone (and let her reset her other phone). Maybe that phone had heaps of incriminating evidence on it, but we'll never know. Just because the police are dumb doesn't mean Erin is guilty.

I'm sure they anticipated that she would make up more lies but expecting them to know what bung she will testify to and have evidence to refute it is a bit much. How exactly would you expect them to know she's going to make up a lie about an eating disorder and pretend she threw up two years ago while supposedly sick from deathly toxins that she didn't remember even then that she had foraged herself?

 

[Hercule Holmes]

I haven't been able to determine exactly when she really realised/accepted for certain that he wasn't coming. Anyone know this?

She knew what was at stake. Simon comes, plan is all in place. Simon doesn't come, I'm looking at life in prison because he will know what I have done.

Even if she waited until lunchtime, there was still a way out, right up until the lunch was actually served. Simply leave it in the oven too long with the heat too high and burn it to a crisp. Apologise to the guests and order pizza.

I can't fathom what her plan was once he wasn't there. The intellectual part of her brain works, the emotional part doesn't. This was wholly and solely a practical decision - can I kill 4 of them, knowing that Simon will know what I have done?

 

[LinasK]

She knew what was at stake. Simon comes, plan is all in place. Simon doesn't come, I'm looking at life in prison because he will know what I have done.

Even if she waited until lunchtime, there was still a way out, right up until the lunch was actually served. Simply leave it in the oven too long with the heat too high and burn it to a crisp. Apologise to the guests and order pizza.

I can't fathom what her plan was once he wasn't there. The intellectual part of her brain works, the emotional part doesn't. This was wholly and solely a practical decision - can I kill 4 of them, knowing that Simon will know what I have done?

I think she still would have done it to torment him with the loss of his relatives. That was the motive for the killer of Mary Yoder. Kill her ex-boyfriend's mother, and not only hurt him, but she tried to frame him in the process as well. Was also a poisoning case.

 

[Anika]

I haven't been able to determine exactly when she really realised/accepted for certain that he wasn't coming. Anyone know this?

Know for certain, no; however, I suspect that she didn't know (edit: for sure) until the time of the lunch that he wasn't coming.

I base that on the fact that they found what was purportedly a spare Wellington in the trash (a poisoned one), and you have to prepare it ahead of time, so she'd likely have made his when she made the rest, assuming he'd attend. He only told her just the night before that he didn't plan to come, but then by her response, I still think she believed he'd give in and come.

On top of that, someone else pointed out that photos taken very soon after the lunch showed 6 chairs at the dining table, and that she'd likely have removed one for a formal meal if she had known in advance that one invitee wouldn't be attending.

Not proof positive, but those are the things I've seen elsewhere/speculated regarding this point.

 

[LadyL]

This is where I struggle with her going ahead after Simon didn't attend.

She had the intellect to formulate the plan, but it clearly revolved around them all being dead, with no certainty about what happened. If she was queried, she had answers prepared to at least create doubt. Best case, it was never even linked back to her.

Once Simon didn't come, she had to be aware it would come down to a "he said, she said" scenario, where the ability to play "the appropriate role" was going to be necessary. Was she really just going to rely on disposal of evidence and bare-faced lies?

With what we know now, Simon was going to immediately suspect what happened and cause her serious issues. Was she just planning to torment him for the rest of his life, with him knowing, but unable to prove it? Relying on cold, hard facts (her version thereof) and not realising her cold, hard demeanour would be a strong indicator of guilt?

You have to wonder whether an unfortunate accident may have befallen Simon in the days following the lunch, if the others had all quietly deteriorated without revealing anything to authorities. Otherwise, what the hell was she thinking in terms of how it would play out?

and she probably wouldn't have been able to poison his food again so maybe she'd look at sabotaging his car by cutting a brake line or something ...

 

[Monstradamus]

I haven't been able to determine exactly when she really realised/accepted for certain that he wasn't coming. Anyone know this?

The night before, by text. Said he was too uncomfortable to attend, then she tried REALLY hard to talk him into it. No reply by him.

Text messages in lead-up to deadly mushroom lunch revealed as Erin Patterson’s estranged husband testifies

Murder accused urged Simon Patterson to change his mind about not attending ‘special meal’, Victorian court hears

www.theguardian.com

Attached pics in case it's paywalled.

It certainly was a "special" meal. For all of the wrong reasons.