GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[Jake18]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/poignant-instagram-post-a-window-into-erin-pattersons-strange-world/news-story/d7cea3a2a82229db3032e3c48840f73f

Paywalled article from The Austrilian.

From the article:

“Patterson had told the friend that she was autistic and one of her responses to stress was to crank up the music to the point the windows shook and scream her lungs out. The autism diagnosis may, or may not, be true, given Patterson’s history of lying about ovarian cancer”.

 

[Susjay]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/poignant-instagram-post-a-window-into-erin-pattersons-strange-world/news-story/d7cea3a2a82229db3032e3c48840f73f

Paywalled article from The Austrilian.

From the article:

“Patterson had told the friend that she was autistic and one of her responses to stress was to crank up the music to the point the windows shook and scream her lungs out. The autism diagnosis may, or may not, be true, given Patterson’s history of lying about ovarian cancer”.

If you look at a checklist of characteristics of what was formerly called Asperger’s- now included on the Autism Spectrum in the DSMV, you will see many characteristics resonate with what we know about her and her language and behaviour. I was struck by this early on. The possible AS is the least of what may have caused her to commit and be found guilty of murder.

 

[Ellery84]

If you look at a checklist of characteristics of what was formerly called Asperger’s- now included on the Autism Spectrum in the DSMV, you will see many characteristics resonate with what we know about her and her language and behaviour. I was struck by this early on. The possible AS is the least of what may have caused her to commit and be found guilty of murder.

She might be twice exceptional.

Twice-exceptional (2e) children are those who are both gifted and have one or more learning disabilities or other neurodevelopmental conditions. Essentially, they possess high cognitive potential alongside a learning or neurological challenge, creating a unique profile that can be both a strength and a source of difficulty.


Key Characteristics:

• • Giftedness:
    2e children often demonstrate exceptional abilities in areas like intellectual reasoning, problem-solving, creativity, or specific academic subjects.
    
  • Learning Disabilities/Neurodevelopmental Conditions:
    They may also have conditions like dyslexia, ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, anxiety, or sensory processing challenges that impact their learning or behavior.
    
  • Uneven Development:
    The coexistence of giftedness and disability can lead to uneven development, where a child excels in some areas while struggling in others.
    
  • Masking:
    A 2e child's giftedness may mask their disability, or vice versa, making it difficult to identify and support their unique needs.
    
  • Underachievement:
    Due to the challenges they face, 2e children may underachieve in school or struggle to reach their full potential if their needs are not adequately addressed.
    
  • Social and Emotional Needs:
    2e children can also experience social and emotional difficulties, requiring support in these areas as well.
    

Challenges in Identification and Support:

• • Difficult to Identify:
    The unique combination of strengths and weaknesses can make it challenging for educators to accurately identify 2e children.
    
  • Misdiagnosis:
    2e children may be misdiagnosed or overlooked, leading to inappropriate educational placements.
    
  • Need for Specialized Support:
    They require a tailored approach that addresses both their giftedness and their learning disabilities, including accommodations, differentiated instruction, and social-emotional support.
    

Importance of Understanding and Support:

• • Recognizing Strengths:
    It's crucial to recognize and nurture the child's strengths while providing support for their challenges.
    
  • Tailored Education:
    Educational programs should be designed to meet the specific needs of 2e learners, providing appropriate academic challenges and accommodations.
    
  • Social-Emotional Support:
    Addressing the social and emotional needs of 2e children is also essential for their overall well-being and academic success.
    

IMO

 

[Susjay]

This doctor I think is privy, and was very early on, to much more information than we realise. I think he’s been through the wringer with the weight of this case. He saw it all up close. He saw the suffering of Ian and Heather up close too. I wish him all the best.

 

[Susjay]

She might be twice exceptional.

Twice-exceptional (2e) children are those who are both gifted and have one or more learning disabilities or other neurodevelopmental conditions. Essentially, they possess high cognitive potential alongside a learning or neurological challenge, creating a unique profile that can be both a strength and a source of difficulty.


Key Characteristics:

• • Giftedness:
    2e children often demonstrate exceptional abilities in areas like intellectual reasoning, problem-solving, creativity, or specific academic subjects.
  • Learning Disabilities/Neurodevelopmental Conditions:
    They may also have conditions like dyslexia, ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, anxiety, or sensory processing challenges that impact their learning or behavior.
  • Uneven Development:
    The coexistence of giftedness and disability can lead to uneven development, where a child excels in some areas while struggling in others.
  • Masking:
    A 2e child's giftedness may mask their disability, or vice versa, making it difficult to identify and support their unique needs.
  • Underachievement:
    Due to the challenges they face, 2e children may underachieve in school or struggle to reach their full potential if their needs are not adequately addressed.
  • Social and Emotional Needs:
    2e children can also experience social and emotional difficulties, requiring support in these areas as well.

Challenges in Identification and Support:

• • Difficult to Identify:
    The unique combination of strengths and weaknesses can make it challenging for educators to accurately identify 2e children.
  • Misdiagnosis:
    2e children may be misdiagnosed or overlooked, leading to inappropriate educational placements.
  • Need for Specialized Support:
    They require a tailored approach that addresses both their giftedness and their learning disabilities, including accommodations, differentiated instruction, and social-emotional support.

Importance of Understanding and Support:

• • Recognizing Strengths:
    It's crucial to recognize and nurture the child's strengths while providing support for their challenges.
  • Tailored Education:
    Educational programs should be designed to meet the specific needs of 2e learners, providing appropriate academic challenges and accommodations.
  • Social-Emotional Support:
    Addressing the social and emotional needs of 2e children is also essential for their overall well-being and academic success.

IMO

Yes many people fall through the cracks of the education system. Women are also less likely to be identified in the school years, and often only receive a diagnosis a long way into adulthood. And you won’t get a diagnosis of high functioning Autism or Asperger’s without being quite bright.

 

[Old Soul]

This doctor I think is privy, and was very early on, to much more information than we realise. I think he’s been through the wringer with the weight of this case. He saw it all up close. He saw the suffering of Ian and Heather up close too. I wish him all the best.

Yes I think he was deeply moved and heartbroken that he couldn’t do more to help Heather and simultaneously chilled to the bone having looked evil dead in the eye.

 

[Tweet57]

"Regarding the 4WD trip when she abandoned Simon and her newborn in Townsville and flew by herself back to Perth, Simon is quoted as saying that he and the baby then drove straight back to Perth as directly as possible.

To give overseas posters a better idea of the trip ie time and distance.
It would have been a very worrying trip driving in such desolate countryside with a young baby.

 

[JBowie]

“Patterson had told the friend that she was autistic and one of her responses to stress was to crank up the music to the point the windows shook and scream her lungs out.”

When we were kids my brother did that with AC/DC songs. He was definitely not autistic, though these days he complains of tinnitus.

 

[JBowie]

To give overseas posters a better idea of the trip ie time and distance.
It would have been a very worrying trip driving in such desolate countryside with a young baby.

4565 km = 2837 miles (say NY City to LA)

 

[Tweet57]

Unless you've got kids, you maybe can't fully understand how insane it is for a mother to do this. My wife would never have left the children in a million years like this.

Far more likely would be a woman taking the child and the car saying 'get yourself home!'

Nah, I would definitely take the baby on the plane due to the large distance to be travelled.

 

[tmar]

I am surprised that Erin is not better-spoken, considering her intelligence and background.

I agree: especially listening to her answering questions with the police (lots of 'Yeps').

 

[Ellery84]

I agree: especially listening to her answering questions with the police (lots of 'Yeps').

I am sure she does have a formal language register and I’m sure she does know when it is and isn’t appropriate to use informal language. Wasn’t she educated at PLC? Presumably she knows how to speak in a proper way.

I think the yep to the police might have been a lack of “care-factor” on her behalf.

IMO

 

[Scuffy35]

RSBM


This is an extremely weak argument for a motive. Even the prosecution admitted (in opening statements) it didn't have a motive for Erin. In those circumstances, I'm pretty comfortable stating there wasn't a motive. A motive isn't required for a conviction, obviously, but lack of motive is evidence against intent.

RSMB

The prosecution did not say they did not have a motive. What they said is below, from the Guardian:

“The prosecution will not be suggesting that there was a particular motive to do what she did. What you will have to … focus your attention on, is whether you are satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the accused committed the charges … not why she may have done so.”

A life saved and what Erin Patterson allegedly confided to friends: week four of the mushroom lunch trial

Sole surviving lunch guest watches on as Victorian supreme court hears how hospital staff ‘thought he was going to die’ from death cap mushroom poisoning

www.theguardian.com

It just means that they would not be arguing to prove a motive, not that they do not know what the motive was.

 

[Monstradamus]

To give overseas posters a better idea of the trip ie time and distance.
It would have been a very worrying trip driving in such desolate countryside with a young baby.

Yes, it's a 5 day drive.

 

[Monstradamus]

Nah, I would definitely take the baby on the plane due to the large distance to be travelled.

It's about an 8-9 hour flight, via Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne

 

[303gmf]

To give overseas posters a better idea of the trip ie time and distance.
It would have been a very worrying trip driving in such desolate countryside with a young baby.

Apparently she didn’t breast feed the poor little infant

 

[Moll]

It's about an 8-9 hour flight, via Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne

Thanks to you, Tweet57 and other Australian posters for reminding us of your vast distances. It makes that episode of leaving Simon with the car and the baby even more appalling.

Here in the UK we think it's a long journey from, say, Brighton on the south coast up to Edinburgh - which is about 10 hours' drive and an hour and half flight time.

 

[Scuffy35]

RSBM

When you actually examine these items, a lot of them are either irrelevant, incorrect, or have an alternative benign explanation (granted, you need to believe some of what Erin said to accept those explanations. As above, I understand why some people might not do that).

For example: The cancer story. You say Erin lied to her guests about having cancer "in order to lure them to her luncheon", but that's incorrect. The only testimony we have about the cancer is Ian's, and he said Erin did not mention it until after everyone had finished eating. Erin didn't need the cancer story to "lure" people to lunch, by all accounts they came willingly. That is, except for Simon, who Erin did tell she had medical news. She didn't say cancer though.
RSBM

You seemed to have missed completely the text exchanges between Erin and Gail about appointments for suspected cancer due to a lump on her arm, which were proven to be lies.

Earlier in his evidence, Eppingstall was asked about messages exchanged by Patterson and Gail in June and July 2023.

He was also asked about extracts from Gail’s diary, which included the note: “Erin St Vincents arm lung” on 28 June 2023.

She messaged Patterson that evening saying “just wondering how you got on at your appointment today? Love Gail and Don.”

Patterson wrote back the next morning that the appointment “went OK”, that she had a needle biopsy taken of a lump, and would have an MRI the following week.

“That’s a test of patience isn’t it!? Praying you’ll know God’s peace,” Gail responded.

On 6 July 2023, Gail asked Patterson how she went with her test.

Patterson responded there was “a bit to digest” but that she would talk to her and Don when she saw them in person.

What police found on Erin Patterson’s computer and text messages with mother-in-law revealed

Detective also tells mushroom lunch trial that phone records indicate a sim card was switched while police searched murder accused’s home

www.theguardian.com

I think I see now why you are struggling to see why the jury decided on the verdict that they did, that maybe you are not across the evidence in a great enough detail.

This is not a criticism of you. Many of us on WS have been discussing all of the details for months. I am still learning something new about the case nearly every day. I have seen others turn their opinion once they become better informed.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

Nah, I would definitely take the baby on the plane due to the large distance to be travelled.

Apparently the baby was around 10 months old by then, could be any number of reasons for the car trip instead of the plane.

Apparently she didn’t breast feed the poor little infant

He may have been weaned by then.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

If you look at a checklist of characteristics of what was formerly called Asperger’s- now included on the Autism Spectrum in the DSMV, you will see many characteristics resonate with what we know about her and her language and behaviour. I was struck by this early on. The possible AS is the least of what may have caused her to commit and be found guilty of murder.

If she was on the spectrum, I think the defence might have tried to use it to their advantage.

For instance, it could have been used to explain some of her apparent 'cold' or 'odd' behaviour when she found out about the DC and when she knew that there others were sick.

I'm not saying it's actually an excuse, I've worked with lots of autistic children over the years, and some adults and most of them learn how to respond in a more 'normal' way. I'm just thinking I wouldnt have been surprised if they had tried to use it knowing some people would put it down to that.