GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[Tortoise]

Evidence in a criminal trial is like a jigsaw puzzle: one piece by itself tells you nothing, but put the pieces together and a picture starts to emerge. Once all the pieces are in place, the picture is very clear.

Take the mismatched plates. First, are you implying that Ian is lying? Why would he lie? If you think he was mistaken, remember that he first mentioned that a day or two after the poisoned lunch, so obviously it was something that struck him as odd. There has been no hint that he has a faulty memory so when he says Erin served the guests on grey plates but used an orange one for herself, I believe he is very credible. The police didn't find any such plates at her home - well we now have CCTV footage of Erin at a garbage tip, just 30 minutes after her guests had left, throwing a cardboard box into the trash. It's reasonable to assume the plates were in the box.

As for her son, he testified that there were white plates, not grey or orange ones, in the dishwasher. But they were smaller than dinner plates, so obviously dessert plates. Sure, if you only own four good plates but there are five people at lunch including yourself, then you'd use the good plates for your guests and use another one for yourself. However, when you look at all the other pieces of evidence, a benign explanation is very unlikely. And that's just for one part of the evidence.

The other thing that is remarkable is that all of her excuses were retrofitted to the evidence. I was looking for one example where she acted in a way that supported her story before information was revealed to her, but I didn't see any.

She claims she thought she had gastro illness but didn't call her more vulnerable lunch guests to warn them that evening, and ask if they were sick too, or call and ask Simon to keep an eye on them. Because she wasn't really sick and being sick wasn't part of her original plan.

She served the same food to her children that she thought may have made her sick. Because Erin being sick wasn't part of her original narrative, if they'd died and not revealed they ate specially prepared portions, and not shared a single large wellington.

She didn't tell anyone about the dried wild mushrooms until she heard they were treating the patients for death cap poisoning. Because she planned to say they were only button mushrooms from Woollies. She hid the dehydrator for the same reason.

She admitted foraging at trial and not before, when she knew the grocer story was not credible and they'd found traces to prove she'd dried the death caps in her own kitchen. There would have been no reason to dry already dried mushrooms from a store.

If she'd got ahead and said one of these things before she found out what police and doctors were doing I might have given her a teeny bit more benefit of the doubt.

MOO

 

[LinasK]

That's an interesting point. It was actually her son who said they didn't go to church because she wasn't feeling well.

The boy recalled his mother telling him she felt unwell the morning after the lunch. He said she shared that she’d been to the toilet a few times during the night. She drove her son to a flying lesson in Tyabb, which was later cancelled.

“She said she had to go a few times [to the toilet] during the night,” the boy said. “She did not sound great. It sounded like it was worse than she was saying it was.

“She was playing it down, that’s what it sounded like.”

Son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson said relationship between parents ‘very negative’

The pre-recorded video evidence of Patterson’s children was played to the jury on Friday, the ninth day of the murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

From her daughter's statement played in court........

In her interview, she tells police that Patterson said she was sick on the morning of 30 July 2023, the day after the lunch.

She said she had a sore tummy and diarrhoea, the girl told police, and that she had seen her go to the toilet about 10 times.

Australia mushroom murders trial: Erin Patterson’s daughter describes eating ‘leftovers’ of fatal lunch in police video

Court also hears from nurse who says triple murder accused told Leongatha hospital staff ‘I don’t want any of this’ in relation to treatment for suspected poisoning

www.theguardian.com

During questioning from Dr Rogers, EP said they didn't go to church because her son had a sore tummy.

Patterson said her memory of that morning was different to the version of events described by the teenager, and that it was he who had suggested not going to church that morning.

The accused woman said that she got up that morning and went to check her son’s bedroom next door. After realising he was not in the room, she walked downstairs and found her son sitting in the TV room.

“The first thing he said to me was, ‘I’ve got a sore tummy ... can we not go to church today?’” Patterson told the court.

As it happened: Prosecutor suggests accused mushroom cook wanted to appear unwell after beef Wellington lunch - Erin Patterson trial day 29

Accused killer Erin Patterson has spent another full day in witness box during her triple murder trial. She has pleaded not guilty to three charges of murder and one of attempted murder.

www.smh.com.au

I found this odd because it would've been more supportive to EP's story of being unwell to agree with what her son had stated. But instead, she disagreed with his supportive testimony.

She's saying that the son is saying he's the one with the stomach ache. That makes no sense. He didn't eat any Beef Wellington, so why would he be the one with the stomach ache???

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Someone posted this video earlier. It does a very good job of showing how much DC mushrooms she would have to have used. The large amount makes it unlikely she would have done so accidentally, or just as a late addition for flavoring after she started cooking.

To make a lethal dose, she would have to have used about 100g of DCs for each BW, which would be about 3 mushrooms of this size.




And she would need about 600g total for all the BWs.



Half of that or 300g is shown here after drying.



Then she would have chopped and added water to those mushrooms and applied them to the duxelles.



As you can see, she would be basically adding as much as was already there. And this is just from the DCs alone, not even counting the alleged Asian store mushrooms that were in the alleged container. The dish would not have come out as edible with this extra added layer of mushrooms.

If she added a reasonable amount for flavoring, it wouldn't have been enough to kill everyone. So the DCs had to have been already included in her original recipe.

And they would have to have been powdered. If she actually added chopped DCs of the necessary amount, there is no way investigators would haven't found DC pieces or DNA later.

She is as guilty as can be.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Someone posted this video earlier. It does a very good job of showing how much DC mushrooms she would have to have used. The large amount makes it unlikely she would have done so accidentally, or just as a late addition for flavoring after she started cooking.

To make a lethal dose, she would have to have used about 100g of DCs for each BW, which would be about 3 mushrooms of this size.

View attachment 601278


So she would need about 600g total for all the BWs.

View attachment 601277

Half of that or 300g is shown here after drying.

View attachment 601279

Then she would have chopped and added water to those mushrooms and applied them to the duxelles.

View attachment 601280

As you can see, she would be basically adding as much as was already there. And this is just from the DCs alone, not even counting the alleged Asian store mushrooms that were in the alleged container. The dish would not have come out as edible with this extra added layer of mushrooms.

If she added a reasonable amount for flavoring, it wouldn't have been enough to kill everyone. So the DCs had to have been already included in her original recipe.

And they would have to have been powdered. If she actually added chopped DCs of the necessary amount, there is no way investigators would haven't found DC pieces or DNA later.

She is as guilty as can be.

Excellent research this.

Safe to say she blitzed them.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I did exactly the same trip!! Yeah, miles and miles of nothing, as far as the eye can see.

I always tell people it was an hour of green, 70 hours of orange and another hour of green.

It didn't help that there was nowhere to sleep, no shop with proper food and nobody else but us on the train .

We stepped out in Cook, and I swear it was over 50 degrees.

 

[mamamama9873]

I was never in doubt that she was guilty, but I thought that it most probably would have result in a hung jury.

There were some mistakes the prosecution made in not having expert witnesses on mushroom toxin transfer etc, the excluded evidence the directions from the judge that were in the favour of the defence. A sloppy house search and sloppy computer and phone forensic work (eg UTC or local time confusion).

We had the benefit from doing our own research, but the jury didn't.

What we didn’t have was the appearance (body language, tone, mannerisms) and general vibe of the witnesses and lawyers. Likely the professional medical witnesses came across as confident, professional and non biased whereas Erin might have come across as arrogant when she contradicted the testimonies of others. She also didn’t show any remorse, guilt or grief which would be very puzzling.
Apart from the content of the testimonies, we can’t underestimate the vibe of each one. Juries are human after all.

 

[LinasK]

What we didn’t have was the appearance (body language, tone, mannerisms) and general vibe of the witnesses and lawyers. Likely the professional medical witnesses came across as confident, professional and non biased whereas Erin might have come across as arrogant when she contradicted the testimonies of others. She also didn’t show any remorse, guilt or grief which would be very puzzling.
Apart from the content of the testimonies, we can’t underestimate the vibe of each one. Juries are human after all.

I got tone and arrogance just from the print descriptions I read of Erin challenging EVERY single answer of the prosecutor's with "I Disagree" or "They must have misremembered". Really??? Every single one.

 

[jesse]

Apparently the baby was around 10 months old by then, could be any number of reasons for the car trip instead of the plane.

He may have been weaned by then.

There could be all kinds of reasons she may not have been breastfeeding. Fed is best. Let's not shame moms.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

There could be all kinds of reasons she may not have been breastfeeding. Fed is best. Let's not shame moms.

Absolutely this.

 

[303gmf]

There could be all kinds of reasons she may not have been breastfeeding. Fed is best. Let's not shame moms.

No one “shamed”

 

[MaxDecimus13]

No one “shamed”

Somebody literally said I bet she didn't even breastfeed her kids.

 

[Jake18]

Yes this. The tone of the first podcast after the verdict was very different to anything else I've heard or read.

The first time Rachael was on the pod, she mentioned Lindy Chamberlain so I think that demonstrates where her headspace was.

Rachael was the reason I had to stop listening.

She lost me at her discussion of Erin’s (so-called) vomiting. I’m paraphrasing, but it was like : “and then Erin had a slice of orange cake. And then another, and then she took another and then ANOTHER…”

What happened to - Erin claimed, Erin stated, Erin said?

There was Reddit thread where some people felt she was biased, others disagreed saying she was just showing journalistic integrity but quite a few posters said they’d emailed the mushroom podcast or abc to complain at her lack of impartiality.

ETA : it’s even more irritating in retrospect, now that we know Erin trundled off to the rubbish dump after the guests left and wasn’t eating cake.

 

[Monstradamus]

Rachael was the reason I had to stop listening.

She lost me at her discussion of Erin’s (so-called) vomiting. I’m paraphrasing, but it was like : “and then Erin had a slice of orange cake. And then another, and then she took another and then ANOTHER…”

What happened to - Erin claimed, Erin stated, Erin said?

There was Reddit thread where some people felt she was biased, others disagreed saying she was just showing journalistic integrity but quite a few posters said they’d emailed the mushroom podcast or abc to complain at her lack of impartiality.

ETA : it’s even more irritating in retrospect, now that we know Erin trundled off to the rubbish dump after the guests left and wasn’t eating cake.

She just couldn't wait until bin collection on Thursday. Had to get rid of that "cardboard" and bag of rubbish urgently enough to make a special trip. Maybe she ate the cake on the way, a roadie?

 

[303gmf]

Somebody literally said I bet she didn't even breastfeed her kids.

Missed it

 

[MaxDecimus13]

She just couldn't wait until bin collection on Thursday. Had to get rid of that "cardboard" and bag of rubbish urgently enough to make a special trip. Maybe she ate the cake on the way, a roadie?

I can see it now.

'Nobody asked me if I'd gone the tip'

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Excellent research this.

Safe to say she blitzed them.

And many of us had already made that point, but the video does lay it out visually so it's easier to see why.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

She just couldn't wait until bin collection on Thursday. Had to get rid of that "cardboard" and bag of rubbish urgently enough to make a special trip. Maybe she ate the cake on the way, a roadie?

And she had no possible reason at that time to try to claim she was just panicking.

 

[Monstradamus]

Latest ABC wrap up.

With four simple words, Erin Patterson's jury gave a community its answer

As the jury revealed its verdict, a tension built over weeks of legal arguments and disputed versions of what happened the day Erin Patterson hosted her in-laws for lunch was resolved.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Monstradamus]

Missed it

How could you miss it? You're the one that stated it #616

 

[303gmf]

How could you miss it? You're the one that stated it #616

Was stating a fact not a shame for not but you do you