GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[JBowie]

I don't think she's smart at all, I think she's as dumb as every other murderer she's going to meet in jail in the next 30 years.

If, as I suspect, she doesn't suffer fools gladly now, she'll get plenty of practice inside -- if she knows what's good for her.

 

[Charlot123]

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

She was a good mom as long as she saw the kids as part of herself. But had she got away with this murder...what do people think would happen when her kids would start branching off, dating, move in with partners, get married, and she did not like their partners? More people would have been at risk, I am sure.

 

[Ellery84]

She was a good mom as long as she saw the kids as part of herself. But had she got away with this murder...what do people think would happen when her kids would start branching off, dating, move in with partners, get married, and she did not like their partners? More people would have been at risk, I am sure.

I agree.

 

[katydid23]

Very weird. Either trophy or an early plan to explain accident, like why would I take a photo of mushrooms I was going to poison people with, and leave a trail of incriminating evidence, I wouldn't have.

I think you have to be a true narcissist to do so. They would take a picture of the Death Caps on the electric scale, while measuring the necessary dosages, then send them out on FaceBook, because they are so confident and giddy.

 

[katydid23]

To me, the only problem with your bolded statement is that she anticipated they'd die quickly at home, or die prior to any testing or medical intervention being done. To me, that's a HUGE gamble, not one she should have been willing to take, unless her brain could not stray from the one path of almost instant death and no real follow up. It's quite the possibility I guess, as someone with what I like to think is a "normal" brain, I just can't fathom it.

I think she underestimated how strong the powdered DC's were going to be.

I think she imagined the victims would think they just had a stomach flu or food poisoning---and would likely stay home and rest, expecting it to pass in a day or two.

Some of the articles about DC poisoning describe it like that---people get pretty sick with gastro for 48 hours but then they can start to feel better for a couple of days. But during that time, the toxins are destroying the liver.

I believe she assumed they would not seek treatment for a couple of days---but by then, the telltale toxins would not show up in blood tests so she would be home free. Of course she was wrong. They have many ways to determine the presence of DC liver damage.

She had probably poisoned Simon several times without being caught. She was now overly confident.

 

[Tweet57]

She'll be asked to participate in a mental assessment before she's sentenced. But she doesn't have to do it. I'm suggesting she should come totally clean with what she did and fully participate in the testing. I think most of us knew she was guilty after it was reported a lunch she cooked killed three people and all the lies she told to try and get away with it. It was never going to be the perfect murder. I don't think she's smart at all, I think she's as dumb as every other murderer she's going to meet in jail in the next 30 years.

I don’t think she will consent to a medical assessment because in her mind, there is/was nothing wrong with her. I think she will always claim her innocence because of her children. She can then play the victim, wrongly convicted and continue to blame everyone else when it suits her. I think admitting guilt to her children is something she just cannot do ever. Their disgust, anger and disdain for her would be her greatest regret and punishment. IMO

 

[Detechtive]

She would have already had a mandatory psychological evaluation upon going into custody. IMO

 

[Monstradamus]

I don’t think she will consent to a medical assessment because in her mind, there is/was nothing wrong with her. I think she will always claim her innocence because of her children. She can then play the victim, wrongly convicted and continue to blame everyone else when it suits her. I think admitting guilt to her children is something she just cannot do ever. Their disgust, anger and disdain for her would be her greatest regret and punishment. IMO

Yes, she will continue to lie to everyone, including her children. It's everyone else's fault, but hers. Another reason she's not a good mother, it appears she has shown them by example to lie to get the outcome you want.
Not a great character trait, imo.

 

[JBowie]

She would have already had a mandatory psychological evaluation upon going into custody. IMO

Following reception, prisoners undergo an initial risk assessment to identify any special needs and are referred to the appropriate prison services (for example, disability services or interpreter services).

The assessment process includes a health examination conducted by medical staff. When a prisoner fits the criteria, a mental health assessment is carried out by psychiatric staff.

Not sure what those criteria are.

https://www.corrections.vic.gov.au/being-in-prison/going-to-prison/arrival

 

[Kemug]

On the other hand, maybe her children are well aware of who and what their mother is. Maybe they have often talked about it together, the more so as the daughter is becoming less of a child. If anyone knows her, it's them. Maybe they accept what has happened, and struggle to forgive her, with the overriding belief that "at least she really loves us". And she probably does.

 

[Charlot123]

On the other hand, maybe her children are well aware of who and what their mother is. Maybe they have often talked about it together, the more so as the daughter is becoming less of a child. If anyone knows her, it's them. Maybe they accept what has happened, and struggle to forgive her, with the overriding belief that "at least she really loves us". And she probably does.

We don’t know her children at all. Their mom appears to be somewhat detached from reality. Simon, from the shreds seen, may be more world-oriented and social. Better for the kids, IMHO. Staying in the house and drawing on the wall may feel lonely.

 

[Tortoise]

I don’t think she will consent to a medical assessment because in her mind, there is/was nothing wrong with her. I think she will always claim her innocence because of her children. She can then play the victim, wrongly convicted and continue to blame everyone else when it suits her. I think admitting guilt to her children is something she just cannot do ever. Their disgust, anger and disdain for her would be her greatest regret and punishment. IMO

I agree, she won't ever admit her guilt, IMO.

Even the way she murdered, hiding her weapon in food, also widening the net to poison people she had barely a connection with and from whose deaths she was unlikely to gain anything, possibly IMO to make it look like there were no targets, and not even admitting accident/foraging until she was out of options, shows her need to never take ownership and responsibility.

She would never be motivated to expose herself to a crime-related psychological evaluation because she resorted to murder rather than talk through her problems with the people she decided to kill, IMO. That is how she cuts off from her inner self, and even thinks narcissistically she is entitled to kill to preserve herself, rather than work through her inner motivations.

I think the prison assessment is just for placement purposes and protection of herself and others, and medications etc.

MOO

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I think she underestimated how strong the powdered DC's were going to be.

I think she imagined the victims would think they just had a stomach flu or food poisoning---and would likely stay home and rest, expecting it to pass in a day or two.

Some of the articles about DC poisoning describe it like that---people get pretty sick with gastro for 48 hours but then they can start to feel better for a couple of days. But during that time, the toxins are destroying the liver.

I believe she assumed they would not seek treatment for a couple of days---but by then, the telltale toxins would not show up in blood tests so she would be home free. Of course she was wrong. They have many ways to determine the presence of DC liver damage.

She had probably poisoned Simon several times without being caught. She was now overly confident.

I do agree. She likely was believing they were too "nice" to want to bother anyone, or get anyone else sick if it were contagious, and would try to ride it out at home. However, that's a big gamble. HUGE. Look where it got her!

 

[HoneyBunOne]

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

I would disagree that she was a good mum. Was she a totally horrific mother? No. She did tick some boxes: she fed them, gave them a roof over their heads, allowed friends over, wanted a good education for them, gave them after school activities etc. However, a good mum models what love, empathy & kindness is. A good mum doesn't kill their children's family, including trying to take out their father who appears to not be a deadbeat, abuser, alcoholic or the like.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just because her children's needs were met does not make her a "really good Mum". She appeared to weaponise her children, alienate them from Simon and callously murdered their grandparents and another relative, and almost another, imo.

Just to point out, I didn't say she was a really good mum I said in some regards she was a really good mum.

I agree with the psychological / emotional abuse and the fact she's murdered half her children's family and people they were particularly close to and fond of is an outrageous violation of everyone involved including her children. I'd be interested to know more about the way she interacted with her kids and if she was moody, snappy, controlling, depriving, with-holding etc.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think she underestimated how strong the powdered DC's were going to be.

I think she imagined the victims would think they just had a stomach flu or food poisoning---and would likely stay home and rest, expecting it to pass in a day or two.

Some of the articles about DC poisoning describe it like that---people get pretty sick with gastro for 48 hours but then they can start to feel better for a couple of days. But during that time, the toxins are destroying the liver.

I believe she assumed they would not seek treatment for a couple of days---but by then, the telltale toxins would not show up in blood tests so she would be home free. Of course she was wrong. They have many ways to determine the presence of DC liver damage.

She had probably poisoned Simon several times without being caught. She was now overly confident.

I agree with this, she would have done all her research online. So whatever the vast majority of respected online sites describe as poisoning symptoms is what she would have expected.

Also, she had tried different things on SP and he hadn't actually died despite being severely ill so she'd have been incorporating that knowledge into her actions.

Also despite all the poisonings, SP nor anyone else had queried what food he'd eaten and if she'd given him anything dangerous or toxic or poisonous. That would have given her confidence that no matter what, she was a trusted 'feeder' whose actions would not be considered suspicious. Along with the fact that evidence passes out of the body - there we have four solid factors that explain what to us seems an outrageous risky and far out crime, to her seemed reasonably sure of getting away with.

Slower deaths - toxins passing out of system and untraceable - nobody alleging they've been poisoned - nobody suspecting she's a poisoner. IMO that's what she based her confidence on.

 

[Monstradamus]

I agree with this, she would have done all her research online. So whatever the vast majority of respected online sites describe as poisoning symptoms is what she would have expected.

Also, she had tried different things on SP and he hadn't actually died despite being severely ill so she'd have been incorporating that knowledge into her actions.

Also despite all the poisonings, SP nor anyone else had queried what food he'd eaten and if she'd given him anything dangerous or toxic or poisonous. That would have given her confidence that no matter what, she was a trusted 'feeder' whose actions would not be considered suspicious. Along with the fact that evidence passes out of the body - there we have four solid factors that explain what to us seems an outrageous risky and far out crime, to her seemed reasonably sure of getting away with.

Slower deaths - toxins passing out of system and untraceable - nobody alleging they've been poisoned - nobody suspecting she's a poisoner. IMO that's what she based her confidence on.

I believe SP did confide in his father about his suspicions, and his GP. Don even brought a container of his own vomit to hospital to be tested for possible poisoning.

 

[Monstradamus]

Just to point out, I didn't say she was a really good mum I said in some regards she was a really good mum.

I agree with the psychological / emotional abuse and the fact she's murdered half her children's family and people they were particularly close to and fond of is an outrageous violation of everyone involved including her children. I'd be interested to know more about the way she interacted with her kids and if she was moody, snappy, controlling, depriving, with-holding etc.

I believe the children were just another form of narcissistic supply to her, and were made to feel responsible for their mother's happiness.
She doesn't deserve the title of Mother, imo.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I believe SP did confide in his father about his suspicions, and his GP. Don even brought a container of his own vomit to hospital to be tested for possible poisoning.

I agree this happened but EP was not factoring in that to her calculation = a flaw in her plan was her belief she was 'above suspicion', a trusted member of family and beyond question IMO. This goes some way to explain the outrageousness, JMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I believe the children were just another form of narcissistic supply to her, and were made to feel responsible for their mother's happiness.
She doesn't deserve the title of Mother, imo.

Agree. I don't know how children move on from this. Especially if it's true they visit her etc. A clean break with a lot of specialist counselling and maybe a fresh start in a new area with new names is my sort of vision but in all realisticness a) they may not wish to and b) that's pretty costly and traumatic in and of itself.