GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #19

[Deleted member 363451]

I would imagine that since she was their primary care-giver and they were more or less in her full time care, plus their father had been so incredibly unwell and at near death even, she would have been the person raising them the vast majority of time.

In that regard then it's highly likely they're either very confused young people who are victims of someone who gaslights, switches, coerces, manipulates, lies, deceives, which is dizzying and disorienting to experience in any circumstances let alone formative years. OR they're confused young people who mimic what they've seen and find difficulties arising. I suspect it's the first -but- far worse for the female child as girls look to their mothers and female influences around them for role modelling and boys look to their peers, fathers, and other men. So the boy likely had it easier, plus he's born and raised within a patriarchy in the western model that empowers boys and men above girls and women.

It's very sad Probable that a confused, disoriented, suffering young girl has lost her primary carer but also been psychologically abused by same.

JMO MOO

Yes, she's at an age where she needs a good female influence in her life. She's lost her grandma. I wonder if she's close to Simon's sister?

 

[ch_13]

Do you have doubts about EP poisoning Simon?

Of course not. I never said that at all, or even implied it.

My objection is to people who are questioning why it took Simon so long to figure out EP was poisoning him. Everyone seems to think that they would have been much smarter than him and figured it out the very first time it happened.

My point was that this is a form of hindsight bias, It's much easier to understand why something happened when you're looking into the past and the cause is already known.

 

[303gmf]

Just released new video on Erin Patterson's police interview from The Behaviour Panel.

Beef Killington

 

[Penny68]

Beef Killington

With respect:. I do not find that funny at all.

 

[303gmf]

With respect:. I do not find that funny at all.

With respect I find it sad humor is difficult
Killington is a fairly well known ski resort in the US while Mark is a chef making it doubly funny to me

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I assume those who say they would not have attended also would have believed Simon when be said he thought he may have been poisoned. I am working from the opinion that Don/ any others who were aware of Simon's suspicions brushed it off as too incredible to believe until they felt sick themselves.

I also pointed out a few pages back, the somewhat odd situation with the cookies.

If Simon was so gung-ho that she'd tried to kill him and suspected this was another example, surely he'd have taken them somewhere to get checked out.

It suggests strongly to me that Simon had his doubts but was clearly not 100% certain himself. This in itself is not unusual. After all, we have no idea what the doctors were telling him, from the pre-trial it seems to be that they didn't suspect his illness to be the result of something he ingested.

He likely just decided to stop eating stuff prepared by EP as a precaution rather than because he was certain of her guilt.

 

[Charlot123]

I also pointed out a few pages back, the somewhat odd situation with the cookies.

If Simon was so gung-ho that she'd tried to kill him and suspected this was another example, surely he'd have taken them somewhere to get checked out.

It suggests strongly to me that Simon had his doubts but was clearly not 100% certain himself. This in itself is not unusual. After all, we have no idea what the doctors were telling him, from the pre-trial it seems to be that they didn't suspect his illness to be the result of something he ingested.

He likely just decided to stop eating stuff prepared by EP as a precaution rather than because he was certain of her guilt.

A poison is a very unusual situation. First, hard to believe and second, it is not any regular type of murder. My parents were victims of a comparable crime/but survived, and what convinced me of her guilt was a very unusual reaction.

So being not in the house when it happened and not knowing how it exactly happened but knowing that the source was the house, one hysterically refuses to return there till the house is "decontaminated", the source is not removed, etc. If Erin did not know how the death caps got into the house, one thing is obvious, she'd move into a hotel with the kids and categorically refuse to return home. Because how did she know what and where the toxins were? What else was there? She, on the contrary, felt great in the house. This behavior is very telling. She was not afraid.

 

[ishtvara]

I have to wonder what Judge Beale thought when EP introduced new lies about tidying up and binge eating the orange cake when he already knew she'd made a visit to the tip an hour after the lunch ended and which he ruled inadmissable in Ruling 4. I guess she could have done both but the cake binge was not mentioned in the pre-trial rulings.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, she's at an age where she needs a good female influence in her life. She's lost her grandma. I wonder if she's close to Simon's sister?

One wonders if she was close to GM. Not so sure, but don’t know. She, in a way, lost the mother. I have the feeling that Erin at least tried to be different from own mother in her child-rearing. Reading Simon’s blog, it seems that the son was “extroverted”. It helps. We don’t know about the girl. Simon’s sister and maybe, a very good therapist of the age where she can listen to the daughter but also, give advices about dating, crushes, school, “girlie talk”. Maybe animal therapy, too.

Also, Simon is artistic. Perhaps the girl is, too? Art therapy and art classes could help.

Just wishing them luck.

 

[Megnut]

IMO EP will be whoever you want her to be (or, mkre accurately, whom she thinks you want her to be). Until you slight her. Then you'll come to regret the first thing you thought you liked about her

IMO EP exhausts relationships, it's only a matter of time always.

JMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Did it happen every time he ate EP's food, or just sometimes? How much time passed between eating the food and getting sick? What other health issues was he having at the same time? All questions that could affect how easy it was to recognize the pattern.

I mean, Simon seems like a pretty smart guy. And I'm sure his doctors were pretty intelligent too. If it took them a while to connect the dots, then I trust that it wasn't as obvious as everyone here seems to think it was.

With all due respect, thinking that this was something that should have been quickly detected is textbook hindsight bias.

Hindsight bias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They weren't living together at the time of these poisonings, they were only together sporadically. So that it only happened during the few times he had been with her and ate food she prepared, that's too big of a coincidence. And eventually Simon did realize it, as he no longer ate her food. I'm sure he wishes he took more steps than that though. moo

 

[Charlot123]

They weren't living together at the time of these poisonings, they were only together sporadically. So that it only happened during the few times he had been with her and ate food she prepared, that's too big of a coincidence. And eventually Simon did realize it, as he no longer ate her food. I'm sure he wishes he took more steps than that though. moo

I feel horribly because he is probably feeling very guilty. Just to mention, once she made up her mind, she’d find the way, only with more people suffering. She was obsessed with the idea.

 

[sassyblue]

ErinErinErin now has a hurricane in her name. Sorta fitting somehow.

 

[Ellery84]

I also pointed out a few pages back, the somewhat odd situation with the cookies.

If Simon was so gung-ho that she'd tried to kill him and suspected this was another example, surely he'd have taken them somewhere to get checked out.

It suggests strongly to me that Simon had his doubts but was clearly not 100% certain himself. This in itself is not unusual. After all, we have no idea what the doctors were telling him, from the pre-trial it seems to be that they didn't suspect his illness to be the result of something he ingested.

He likely just decided to stop eating stuff prepared by EP as a precaution rather than because he was certain of her guilt.

I think it’s safe to say that Simon had some blind spots when it came to his wife’s behaviour.

IMO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I also pointed out a few pages back, the somewhat odd situation with the cookies.

If Simon was so gung-ho that she'd tried to kill him and suspected this was another example, surely he'd have taken them somewhere to get checked out.

It suggests strongly to me that Simon had his doubts but was clearly not 100% certain himself. This in itself is not unusual. After all, we have no idea what the doctors were telling him, from the pre-trial it seems to be that they didn't suspect his illness to be the result of something he ingested.

He likely just decided to stop eating stuff prepared by EP as a precaution rather than because he was certain of her guilt.

He must have been fairly sure in his mind that she was poisoning him to ask his solicitor to make it a legal matter.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

One wonders if she was close to GM. Not so sure, but don’t know. She, in a way, lost the mother. I have the feeling that Erin at least tried to be different from own mother in her child-rearing. Reading Simon’s blog, it seems that the son was “extroverted”. It helps. We don’t know about the girl. Simon’s sister and maybe, a very good therapist of the age where she can listen to the daughter but also, give advices about dating, crushes, school, “girlie talk”. Maybe animal therapy, too.

Also, Simon is artistic. Perhaps the girl is, too? Art therapy and art classes could help.

Just wishing them luck.

Yes, talking to a priest isn't going to cut it.

 

[Tricia]

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[Kemug]

Seeing as it is now quite some time since these tragic deaths happened, and likewise Erin has been jailed for quite some time, I am hoping that the children are already embarked on therapy which is beginning to help them.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Not sure if this has been mentioned. When EP went to the tip after lunch, she hid the trip from her son. But it still was not allowed in evidence.

This is too unfair to the prosecution since Mandy is over their arguing that police didn't find the different color plates at the house. And EP is testifying about her afterlunch cake binge and purge.

That ruling may have been the worst decision the judge made.

I wonder if the prosecution would have been allowed to ask her to say everything she did after the lunch. I don't see why not, but who knows. And then if she never mentioned the tip trip, then it should have been allowed in.

moo

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/what-the-jury-in-the-erin-patterson-murder-trial-didnt-know/news-story/4a48d030b53f7ed4c631e61c4d7c141d?amp

Two trips to the tip

Patterson admitted she dumped her dehydrator at the Koonwarra Transfer Station and Landfill on August 2, four days after the lunch.
But the jury did not know it was her second trip to the tip.

During pre-trial, it was revealed that she visited the tip on July 29 about 3.30pm – only 45 minutes after the guests had left her home.
Patterson is captured on CCTV footage dumping cardboard at the Koonwarra tip on the day of the lunch.

“The only purpose of making the trip was to dispose of items from the lunch,” Crown prosecutor Sarah Lenthall claimed.

She added: “There was an element of secrecy … (her son) and his friend were at home. He was not told she was leaving the house. It was an unusual occurrence not to tell him.”
....
Ultimately, Justice Beale sided with the defence, ruling evidence of the trip inadmissible.
Business records from Koonwarra Transfer Station and Landfill were altered to remove any record of the July 29 visit before they were shown to the jury.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Not sure if this has been mentioned. When EP went to the tip after lunch, she hid the trip from her son. But it still was not allowed in evidence.

This is too unfair to the prosecution since Mandy is over their arguing that police didn't find the different color plates at the house. And EP is testifying about her afterlunch cake binge and purge.

That ruling may have been the worst decision the judge made.

I wonder if the prosecution would have been allowed to ask her to say everything she did after the lunch. I don't see why not, but who knows. And then if she never mentioned the tip trip, then it should have been allowed in.

moo

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/what-the-jury-in-the-erin-patterson-murder-trial-didnt-know/news-story/4a48d030b53f7ed4c631e61c4d7c141d?amp

Two trips to the tip

Patterson admitted she dumped her dehydrator at the Koonwarra Transfer Station and Landfill on August 2, four days after the lunch.
But the jury did not know it was her second trip to the tip.

During pre-trial, it was revealed that she visited the tip on July 29 about 3.30pm – only 45 minutes after the guests had left her home.
Patterson is captured on CCTV footage dumping cardboard at the Koonwarra tip on the day of the lunch.

“The only purpose of making the trip was to dispose of items from the lunch,” Crown prosecutor Sarah Lenthall claimed.

She added: “There was an element of secrecy … (her son) and his friend were at home. He was not told she was leaving the house. It was an unusual occurrence not to tell him.”
....
Ultimately, Justice Beale sided with the defence, ruling evidence of the trip inadmissible.
Business records from Koonwarra Transfer Station and Landfill were altered to remove any record of the July 29 visit before they were shown to the jury.

On what grounds did JB and the defence have the evidence ruled inadmissible?