GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #19

[Ellery84]

And at least one (disturbed, morally repugnant and vile) self proclaimed penpal.
JMO

Yeah, it’s not him. I don’t think he can write proper sentences, and would be a poor proxy.

 

[Monstradamus]

Can you explain further though? I’m trying to understand how the half portion containing dcs would help her case?

It doesn't help her case. Because she didn't think there were still traces in there to be found.

That ship has sailed, anyway. It doesn't matter. She is a convicted murderer.

 

[Detechtive]

I don't know where you are quoting this information from as a link has not been provided in your post.

Your posted pics show two trays. The leftovers were divided into 4 trays. Sample EX X1 Z13 (which is not shown in your linked pics) tested positive for Death Cap toxin.



Here, marked with the words biological hazard, the bags were photographed and emptied, again, onto four 12-centimetre-wide trays, picked apart and placed into nine clear vials with white lids.

Inside the forensic journey to unmask a deadly mushroom meal

Plucked from Erin Patterson’s outdoor bin, the leftover eye fillet coated in mushroom and encased in pastry has been examined across Melbourne in the lead-up to her triple murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

The mushroom paste was contained in a vial about 2cm wide and 5cm high, with the exhibit name EX X1 Z13.
The paste was taken from inside a beef wellington, which in turn was taken from inside a paper bag found in a wheelie bin outside Erin Patterson’s home.
Unlike other forensic samples of paste taken from the same location, this one contained traces of an amatoxin found in death cap mushrooms.

Mushroom lunch leftovers examined and a juror removed: how week three of the Erin Patterson murder trial unfolded

Australian jury asked to consider if murder accused was pretending to be sick after lunch that killed three in-laws

www.theguardian.com

There's also a case that they were sampled 3-4 times after being mashed together in a bin.
The final analysis - #4 - they were all in a large ziplock bag.

Here, marked with the words biological hazard, the bags were photographed and emptied, again, onto four 12-centimetre-wide trays, picked apart and placed into nine clear vials with white lids.
Head of forensic science and chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos says his department dissected the meal into tiny samples – separated into pastry, meat and mushroom paste – and let them sit for three hours in a solvent used to draw out substances for detection.
This time, for the first time, the court heard the tests finally confirmed doctors’ suspicions – traces of death cap mushroom toxins inside the mushroom paste and beef samples.

Inside the forensic journey to unmask a deadly mushroom meal

Plucked from Erin Patterson’s outdoor bin, the leftover eye fillet coated in mushroom and encased in pastry has been examined across Melbourne in the lead-up to her triple murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Jake18]

I believe EP was very busy tampering with the leftovers evidence after she initially left the hospital to "pack her daughter's ballet bag". Removed the meat to retrofit her story of feeding that to her children for dinner.
It's the ONLY time she had been helpful to health authorities/investigators. They found only what she wanted them to find.
MOO

Yes - the remains of the whole beef wellington had the meat removed, IIRC.

I think she dumped this contaminated cooked meat in that trip to the dump at 330ish, after the guests had left. Along with the plates. One of the podcasts said the full length of that trip was 9min - some of the dumped stuff was cardboard and in the recycling section but some was general waste.

 

[Detechtive]

Yes - the remains of the whole beef wellington had the meat removed, IIRC.

I think she dumped this contaminated cooked meat in that trip to the dump at 330ish, after the guests had left. Along with the plates. One of the podcasts said the full length of that trip was 9min - some of the dumped stuff was cardboard and in the recycling section but some was general waste.

I think she probably flushed it down the toilet? IMO

 

[Detechtive]

There is a distinction between a ‘rightful’ victim and a legal one. Of course Simon is a victim by definition but by legal definition (in this trial) he is not. Ian Wilkinson will receive a lot more as a legal victim of a murder attempt.

This is not true.

Simon is a victim by definition (in this trial) twice over - both as a direct victim, and as a related victim.

Can I apply for financial assistance?

Eligibility requirements for the Financial Assistance Scheme (FAS).

www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au

 

[packetgravy]

There are no other houses. Erin sold the Glen Waverley property and used the proceeds to fund her legal defence. The Leongatha house remains mortgaged to the Legal team - the exact amount is unclear - but whatever equity exists will likely be consumed by legal fees. She has burned through an estimated $1.5 to $2 million, money that could have secured her children’s future. Instead, she spent it all defending herself - fully aware of her guilt. It is a staggering act of selfishness and moral vacancy.

The only other home is Simon Patterson’s.

And I hope he finds great financial success in telling his story - whether through a book, a podcast, or whatever medium he chooses, because those children will need someone capable of rebuilding a life for them. They have been shattered by the actions of their narcissistic, remorseless, mass-murdering mother.

As for Simon, the word "survivor" doesn’t even begin to cover it. He has been irreversibly maimed by Erin’s violence. He endured three laparotomies - each one a brutal surgical incision from breastbone to groin. 1.7 metres of his bowel was removed. These were not accidents. These were intentional, calculated acts of cruelty. It’s a case of pathological sadism, and the most extreme form of domestic violence.

He deserves not only justice, but compensation. For the family she destroyed. For the body she tried to kill. For the life he now has to live, scarred, physically and emotionally, by her absolute depravity.
And he is still entitled to it - again, your information is wrong. There does not need to be a finding of guilt, a conviction, or anything of the sort to get victims of crime compensation in Australia.

Home | Victims of Crime Assistance Tribunal

vocat.vic.gov.au

I would argue her murdering three people including their grandparents is what has messed up her children’s future. <modsnip: As a true crime discussion, focus on such things is the norm>

The charges for the attempted murders/poisonings against Simon were dropped. I am not insinuating these didn’t happen or that it is wasn’t awful but by removing the charges, Simon is effectively removed as primary victim.

In terms of the murder of his parents, yes may be entitled to compensation. However, as a related victim (as opposed to primary, like Ian) the compensation is minimal.

Financial assistance for related victims

Everything you need to know about applying for financial assistance as a related victim of a violent crime in Victoria.

www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au

 

[packetgravy]

This is not true.

Simon is a victim by definition (in this trial) twice over - both as a direct victim, and as a related victim.

Can I apply for financial assistance?

Eligibility requirements for the Financial Assistance Scheme (FAS).

www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au

He is a victim.

He is not a primary victim. Im sorry, it’s crap I know.

Financial assistance and compensation

Victims of crime may be able to get financial assistance from the Victims of Crime Financial Assistance Scheme, or compensation from the person who committed the crime.

www.legalaid.vic.gov.au

 

[Jake18]

I think she probably flushed it down the toilet? IMO

They took her drains apart though, I think.

There was definitely less meat leftover than there should have been. Maybe Erin thought she had to dispose of it to support her story that she fed the children leftovers that also had mushroom paste (that she supposedly scraped off).

The absence of some of the leftover meat supports your theory that it was the meat she contaminated - in a marinade? - and Erin didn’t appreciate that the soluble toxin would be detectable in the duxelle and pastry after cooking.

I think she took the plates, toxic meat and cooking scraps to the dump after the meal.

 

[Detechtive]

I would argue her murdering three people including their grandparents is what has messed up her children’s future. <modsnip: As a true crime discussion, focus on such things is the norm>

The charges for the attempted murders/poisonings against Simon were dropped. I am not insinuating these didn’t happen or that it is wasn’t awful but by removing the charges, Simon is effectively removed as primary victim.

In terms of the murder of his parents, yes may be entitled to compensation. However, as a related victim (as opposed to primary, like Ian) the compensation is minimal.

Financial assistance for related victims

Everything you need to know about applying for financial assistance as a related victim of a violent crime in Victoria.

www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au

You're wrong. That is not what that website says, maybe try to read it again.

Simon is first and foremost, a victim of DV
He is a primary victim of Erin in the murders of his family
He is a related victim of Erin in the murders of his family
He is also a primary victim in the attempted murders of him (whether the charges were dropped or otherwise)

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

The fact is, Erin wasted her children's financial stability to fight her own battles when she knew she was guilty.

 

[Detechtive]

DBM.

 

[packetgravy]

You're wrong. That is not what that website says, maybe try to read it again.

Simon is first and foremost, a victim of DV
He is a direct victim of Erin in the murders of his family
He is a related victim of Erin in the murders of his family
He is also a direct victim in the attempted murders of him (whether the charges were dropped.)

Again, that is not how the law works. Victim compensation is abysmal in Australia and without a trial and conviction, you’re up the creek without a paddle. There is no evidence to support the poisonings of Simon according to the law, this is not the same as me saying it did not happen. I am saying it can’t be proven, thus zero compensation.

“There is no direct evidence that Simon was poisoned on any of the three charged occasions.

"There is no direct medical or toxicological evidence that on any of these occasions he was in fact poisoned, and, without descending into detail, there is only the slimmest medical opinion that his symptoms on the first two occasions could more likely be explained by toxins than by infection."

Dropped Erin Patterson poisoning charges were 'dubious', judge says

A Victorian judge says prosecutors were seeking to use "dubious" arguments to convict Erin Patterson of poisoning her husband before the Crown abandoned its case.

www.abc.net.au

All three types of victims require evidence. In terms of the trial against Erin, Simon is defined as a “related” victim.

I don’t make the rules and I agree he deserves compensation.

Type of victim​

Primary victims​

You are a primary victim if:

• the crime was committed against you
• or you are a child who saw, heard or were exposed to the crime
• or you were injured trying to:
  • rescue another victim
  • stop a violent crime
  • arrest someone who committed a violent crime.

Related victims​

You are a related victim if:

• you are a close family member of a loved one who passed away because of a violent crime
• or you are a dependant of a loved one who passed away because of a violent crime
• or you were in an intimate personal relationship with a loved one who passed away because of a violent crime.

Financial assistance and compensation

Victims of crime may be able to get financial assistance from the Victims of Crime Financial Assistance Scheme, or compensation from the person who committed the crime.

www.legalaid.vic.gov.au

 

[Ellery84]

I don’t make the rules and I agree he deserves compensation.

Type of victim​

Primary victims​

You are a primary victim if:

• the crime was committed against you
• or you are a child who saw, heard or were exposed to the crime
• or you were injured trying to:
  • rescue another victim
  • stop a violent crime
  • arrest someone who committed a violent crime.

Related victims​

Where’s your source/sauce, Packet?

 

[packetgravy]

I don't know where you are quoting this information from as a link has not been provided in your post.

Your posted pics show two trays. The leftovers were divided into 4 trays. Sample EX X1 Z13 (which is not shown in your linked pics) tested positive for Death Cap toxin.

The vile is shown right here in the screenshot of my post… the link is also there. There were two trays, not four.

In pictures: All the evidence you haven’t seen from Erin Patterson’s trial

Text messages, expert analysis and photos shown throughout the mass murderer’s 10-week trial. Here are all the exhibits given to the jury in Erin Patterson’s mushroom murder trial.

7news.com.au

Here, marked with the words biological hazard, the bags were photographed and emptied, again, onto four 12-centimetre-wide trays, picked apart and placed into nine clear vials with white lids.

Inside the forensic journey to unmask a deadly mushroom meal

Plucked from Erin Patterson’s outdoor bin, the leftover eye fillet coated in mushroom and encased in pastry has been examined across Melbourne in the lead-up to her triple murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

The mushroom paste was contained in a vial about 2cm wide and 5cm high, with the exhibit name EX X1 Z13.
The paste was taken from inside a beef wellington, which in turn was taken from inside a paper bag found in a wheelie bin outside Erin Patterson’s home.
Unlike other forensic samples of paste taken from the same location, this one contained traces of an amatoxin found in death cap mushrooms.

Mushroom lunch leftovers examined and a juror removed: how week three of the Erin Patterson murder trial unfolded

Australian jury asked to consider if murder accused was pretending to be sick after lunch that killed three in-laws

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jake18]

They took her drains apart though, I think.

There was definitely less meat leftover than there should have been. Maybe Erin thought she had to dispose of it to support her story that she fed the children leftovers that also had mushroom paste (that she supposedly scraped off).

The absence of some of the leftover meat supports your theory that it was the meat she contaminated - in a marinade? - and Erin didn’t appreciate that the soluble toxin would be detectable in the duxelle and pastry after cooking.

I think she took the plates, toxic meat and cooking scraps to the dump after the meal.

Replying to myself, lol.

If Detechtive’s theory that it was the meat that she contaminated with the death cap is correct - marinading, injecting with powder in liquid? - then you could see how Erin thought she’d get away with it.

One of the leftover samples was of pastry and duxelle only. If she had removed the toxic meat and disposed of it and :
- didn't realise that the toxin would diffuse into surrounding layers with cooking and
- didn't realise that the toxicologists could detect the presence of this toxin in the food and
- didn’t release that there was a new toxin test for humans as well
then she’d have thought she was in the clear.

She may well have thought there’d be no evidence at all.

 

[packetgravy]

Where’s your source/sauce, Packet?

Financial assistance and compensation

Victims of crime may be able to get financial assistance from the Victims of Crime Financial Assistance Scheme, or compensation from the person who committed the crime.

www.legalaid.vic.gov.au

 

[packetgravy]

Replying to myself, lol.

If Detechtive’s theory that it was the meat that she contaminated with the death cap is correct - marinading, injecting with powder in liquid? - then you could see how Erin thought she’d get away with it.

One of the leftover samples was of pastry and duxelle only. If she had removed the toxic meat and disposed of it and :
- didn't realise that the toxin would diffuse into surrounding layers with cooking and
- didn't realise that the toxicologists could detect the presence of this toxin in the food and
- didn’t release that there was a new toxin test for humans as well
then she’d have thought she was in the clear.

She may well have thought there’d be no evidence at all.

But she left the meat and paste in the other half portion in the same bag lol.

 

[SouthAussie]

The vile is shown right here, the link is also there. There were two trays, not four.

In pictures: All the evidence you haven’t seen from Erin Patterson’s trial

Text messages, expert analysis and photos shown throughout the mass murderer’s 10-week trial. Here are all the exhibits given to the jury in Erin Patterson’s mushroom murder trial.

7news.com.au

Thank you for the link. It does not state there were only two trays.

I have provided the link that states there were 4 trays. Your linked photos of two trays do not show the toxic vial that I quoted (EX X1 Z13).

In other words, it is not clear which sample the toxin was taken from. The whole beef wellington, or the half beef wellington.

imo

 

[Jake18]

But she left the meat and paste in the other half portion in the same bag lol.

That was her own leftovers. With clean meat. The bulk of the contaminated meat in the other sample was gone. She didn’t realise that the toxin was still present and able to be detected in the meatless sample. I think Detechtive is correct.

For forensic purposes, mixing the samples in the same bag - with seepage - meant that the water soluble toxin could have ended up on all of the samples.

Given the samples were mixed all I think can be deduced from the left over analysis is that some of the meat was missing (Erin says her children ate it ) and the test for DC mushrooms was positive. And my additional theory is that she ditched the death cap beef and thought that would be enough.

 

[packetgravy]

Thank you for the link. It does not state there were only two trays.

I have provided the link that states there were 4 trays. Your linked photos of two trays do not show the toxic vial that I quoted (EX X1 Z13).

The toxicology report for the leftovers shows the two positive results. The samples were also photographed and shared in the link I provided.

There were only two trays and two positive results in the leftovers report.

Part two of all the evidence you haven’t seen from Erin Patterson’s trial

From her fateful recipe to the death cap mushrooms growing in the area at the time Erin Patterson picked the toxic fungi, here’s everything you might’ve missed from the mass murderer’s court case.

7news.com.au