GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #20

[Cliff Hardy]

Simon Patterson podcast

Not sure if this has been posted already? But according to the Herald Sun this morning, Simon Patterson is set to launch an independent podcast at the end of this year.

Simon's podcast is expected to run for 10 episodes and l suspect will be anything but boring.

Go to it Simon!

 

[rsteen]

It was a fall-back protection, I think.
To claim they were accidentally mixed in with other mushrooms, just in case Plan A didn't work.
If DCs were in a dish that had no mushrooms in it, it would have taken much longer to pinpoint the toxin, perhaps?
Not sure why she didn't claim it was an accident from the start (once the "jig" was up), that was pretty dumb. She could have gotten away with a much lighter sentence, imo.

If she had left her phone at home when she visited the death cap locations, kept her internet searches on a burner device she disposed of, either trashed the dehydrator (and its manual) well prior to the lunch or not at all, and kept her story and behaviour consistent after the fact, there would have been much more space for reasonable doubt at the trial, especially as she hasn't been charged with the earlier poisonings of Simon. Luckily she's not smart.

 

[Monstradamus]

If she had left her phone at home when she visited the death cap locations, kept her internet searches on a burner device she disposed of, either trashed the dehydrator (and its manual) well prior to the lunch or not at all, and kept her story and behaviour consistent after the fact, there would have been much more space for reasonable doubt at the trial, especially as she hasn't been charged with the earlier poisonings of Simon. Luckily she's not smart.

She's no criminal genius

 

[Kemug]

I can (sort of) understand that Erin had (or thought she had) a reason to kill Gail and Don - she was furious that they didn't take "her side" against their son Simon. But surely she could have had absolutely nothing against Heather and Ian, they had never hurt her in any way, or tried to interfere. It seems like they were included solely to make up the numbers and encourage the others to come. And yet she doomed them to the same agonising fate as the others. This is why she is so dangerous, even in prison. There is nobody she would not harm, for really no reason at all. Centuries ago, she would have been a witch.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I can (sort of) understand that Erin had (or thought she had) a reason to kill Gail and Don - she was furious that they didn't take "her side" against their son Simon. But surely she could have had absolutely nothing against Heather and Ian, they had never hurt her in any way, or tried to interfere. It seems like they were included solely to make up the numbers and encourage the others to come. And yet she doomed them to the same agonising fate as the others. This is why she is so dangerous, even in prison. There is nobody she would not harm, for really no reason at all. Centuries ago, she would have been a witch.

BBM.
Maybe she is. If not a witch, another itch.

 

[Detechtive]

My guess is it would be a quick assessment to try to determine if there are any signs of issues that will be immediately problematic -- such as the need for close monitoring, isolation, etc.

As for deeper analysis, I'm not sure how they are initiated, but there are numerous reports and videos by prison shrinks who held sessions with psychopaths and in many of those it's a battle of wits between the psycho and the shrink -- usually a form of entertainment to break the boredom by the former.

It might just be a cursory few questions like “are you at risk of self harm”, “do you have suicidal or homicidal ideation” 🫩

 

[Detechtive]

I can (sort of) understand that Erin had (or thought she had) a reason to kill Gail and Don - she was furious that they didn't take "her side" against their son Simon. But surely she could have had absolutely nothing against Heather and Ian, they had never hurt her in any way, or tried to interfere. It seems like they were included solely to make up the numbers and encourage the others to come. And yet she doomed them to the same agonising fate as the others. This is why she is so dangerous, even in prison. There is nobody she would not harm, for really no reason at all. Centuries ago, she would have been a witch.

Agree
That’s why going back through messages is so alarming. It’s so hard to tell what her plans were. It’s extremely concerning that there was no ‘motive’ (in her deranged head) to kill those innocent bystanders, other than to use as pressure, like you say, to lure Simon there.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Either way- if she HAD actually purchased them ( she didn't and no Asian grocer is going to sell Death Caps) or accidentally foraged them, it still doesn't account for Erin & kids lack of illness. The only conclusion is that they ate beef that didn't have Death Caps added to them/infused/near them.

Once the DC were discovered, she was up a creek without a paddle essentially because she had done it. I think most of us believe her plan relied on their not being discovered.

However, and I still think we're talking past each other a little, she had to come up with some sort of an explanation. My point is simply that the Asian grocer lie was a poor attempt from somebody apparently so intelligent. It was full of holes, and looked worse when she claimed she couldn't locate it.

On a statistical level, her defence could have argued (and essentially tried to) that her not being ill wasn't beyond the realms of probability. On a purely statistical level, if it there is an 80% chance of serious illness, there is an 8% chance that the person hosting the meal doesn't get seriously ill. The prosecution weren't able to ascertain exactly how the poison affected different people so there in lies doubt.

Had she stated early on that she'd foraged, this could have been enough for doubt in some jurors' minds and she could have convinced some that it was a tragic unforseen accident. Instead, her actions looked exactly like somebody trying to lie their way out of being caught red-handed.

Which is exactly what she was doing.

 

[Detechtive]

Once the DC were discovered, she was up a creek without a paddle essentially because she had done it. I think most of us believe her plan relied on their not being discovered.

However, and I still think we're talking past each other a little, she had to come up with some sort of an explanation. My point is simply that the Asian grocer lie was a poor attempt from somebody apparently so intelligent. It was full of holes, and looked worse when she claimed she couldn't locate it.

On a statistical level, her defence could have argued (and essentially tried to) that her not being ill wasn't beyond the realms of probability. On a purely statistical level, if it there is an 80% chance of serious illness, there is an 8% chance that the person hosting the meal doesn't get seriously ill. The prosecution weren't able to ascertain exactly how the poison affected different people so there in lies doubt.

Had she stated early on that she'd foraged, this could have been enough for doubt in some jurors' minds and she could have convinced some that it was a tragic unforseen accident. Instead, her actions looked exactly like somebody trying to lie their way out of being caught red-handed.

Which is exactly what she was doing.

I agree.

I’m one of the few however who think the ‘can’t remember where I got them’ story isn’t as ridiculous as it sounds, because I randomly venture into and buy things from tiny little Indian etc grocers and keep them in my pantry for probably far too long before I attempt authentic Indian curries again. I have no idea where I got them, except to say somewhere in my city.

I’m mostly speaking about unusual spices or typical Indian food like ghee, though, I’ve got no idea of the shelf life of dried mushrooms, though.

Still, I agree with @Monstradamus that she concocted these excuses on the fly when she was confronted at and shortly after the hospital. IMO

 

[Warshawski]

No, she’s serving the sentences concurrently.

Concurrent sentences are criminal sentences that are served at the same time rather than one after another. When multiple sentences are imposed concurrently, the total time an offender serves is equal to the length of the longest individual sentence. This sentencing approach, in contrast to cumulative or consecutive sentences, allows for the total time to reflect the totality of the offending, rather than multiplying the sentences for each offense.

I know they are being served concurrently. … unlike cats, humans usually only have 1 life.

 

[Kemug]

Actually I sort of really meant it when I said that in past times Erin would have been a witch - I really meant that she would have been thought of as one, and treated accordingly.

 

[JBowie]

Actually I sort of really meant it when I said that in past times Erin would have been a witch - I really meant that she would have been thought of as one, and treated accordingly.

Well, she did deliberately choose a witch on a flying on a broom as an avatar. Freudian slip, or dropping secret sicko hints to the unsuspecting?

 

[Elley Mae]

Wonder was there another plate to match the other 4 that was meant for Simon, was Simon an only child? Thinking that had he showed up and died like the others would she have inherited his and the in-laws property/estates?

 

[ch_13]

Once the DC were discovered, she was up a creek without a paddle essentially because she had done it. I think most of us believe her plan relied on their not being discovered.

However, and I still think we're talking past each other a little, she had to come up with some sort of an explanation. My point is simply that the Asian grocer lie was a poor attempt from somebody apparently so intelligent. It was full of holes, and looked worse when she claimed she couldn't locate it.

On a statistical level, her defence could have argued (and essentially tried to) that her not being ill wasn't beyond the realms of probability. On a purely statistical level, if it there is an 80% chance of serious illness, there is an 8% chance that the person hosting the meal doesn't get seriously ill. The prosecution weren't able to ascertain exactly how the poison affected different people so there in lies doubt.

Had she stated early on that she'd foraged, this could have been enough for doubt in some jurors' minds and she could have convinced some that it was a tragic unforseen accident. Instead, her actions looked exactly like somebody trying to lie their way out of being caught red-handed.

Which is exactly what she was doing.

"Yes, I foraged for the mushrooms and used them to make the Beef Wellingtons. However, when it came time to assemble the dish, I discovered I was short on the mushroom paste. So, I omitted it from the fifth portion. Naturally, I kept that one back for myself, and gave my guests the ones that were made properly. Of course, this was all a terrible accident. I could have never imagined that I picked death caps instead of an edible species."

This also presumes that she didn't leave all that electronic evidence about her searching online for death caps and driving to their location.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

"Yes, I foraged for the mushrooms and used them to make the Beef Wellingtons. However, when it came time to assemble the dish, I discovered I was short on the mushroom paste. So, I omitted it from the fifth portion. Naturally, I kept that one back for myself, and gave my guests the ones that were made properly. Of course, this was all a terrible accident. I could have never imagined that I picked death caps instead of an edible species."

This also presumes that she didn't leave all that electronic evidence about her searching online for death caps and driving to their location.

I'm not sure how many times I need to make the point that I'm saying the Asian grocer was a pretty stupid excuse from an apparently highly intelligent woman.

I'm not saying admitting to foraging would have magically enabled her to overcome all the other myriad of problems that she had.

It might have helped in the trial, as it might have got a juror to reasonable doubt if she hadn't lied to police in the first place and changed her story etc but it's probably doubtful with the rest of the evidence.

 

[rsteen]

I'm not sure how many times I need to make the point that I'm saying the Asian grocer was a pretty stupid excuse from an apparently highly intelligent woman.

I'm not saying admitting to foraging would have magically enabled her to overcome all the other myriad of problems that she had.

It might have helped in the trial, as it might have got a juror to reasonable doubt if she hadn't lied to police in the first place and changed her story etc but it's probably doubtful with the rest of the evidence.

Not only apparently intelligent, but with a prior interest in true crime.

Guessing she was so egotisical she thought nobody would dare to suspect her.

 

[ch_13]

I'm not sure how many times I need to make the point that I'm saying the Asian grocer was a pretty stupid excuse from an apparently highly intelligent woman.

I'm not saying admitting to foraging would have magically enabled her to overcome all the other myriad of problems that she had.

It might have helped in the trial, as it might have got a juror to reasonable doubt if she hadn't lied to police in the first place and changed her story etc but it's probably doubtful with the rest of the evidence.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just suggesting another excuse she could have used. An alternate defense that may have produced some reasonable doubt.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I can (sort of) understand that Erin had (or thought she had) a reason to kill Gail and Don - she was furious that they didn't take "her side" against their son Simon. But surely she could have had absolutely nothing against Heather and Ian, they had never hurt her in any way, or tried to interfere. It seems like they were included solely to make up the numbers and encourage the others to come. And yet she doomed them to the same agonising fate as the others. This is why she is so dangerous, even in prison. There is nobody she would not harm, for really no reason at all. Centuries ago, she would have been a witch.

I know they are being served concurrently. … unlike cats, humans usually only have 1 life.

'Life' isn't really life though, is it?

Humans live on average what, 85 years?

25 years is less than 1/3 of an average life and 33 years not even half.

 

[Monstradamus]

Well, she did deliberately choose a witch on a flying on a broom as an avatar. Freudian slip, or dropping secret sicko hints to the unsuspecting?

And her title was "Queen of Sheba"
Says it all, really.

 

[BrianM]

'Life' isn't really life though, is it?

Humans live on average what, 85 years?

25 years is less than 1/3 of an average life and 33 years not even half.

It will take her to her mid eighties though