Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

[k-mac]

Personally, I don't put any weight on William's sister's evidence.

In my experience and observation, a 4 year old can have ideas put into their heads by adults pretty easily and, years later, after being told a story about an event many times, can come to believe that they were there at the time although they have no real memory of it.

For example: I recall her being quoted as saying "A bad man took William" or words to that effect. It's my opinion that she did not witness any such thing but was told that by her fosters and came to believe it.

Yes Kids are easily manipulated and expected to hold mum and dads narrative about stuff.
The influence of your parents are all consuming to little people.
as you age and grow in confidence, you push back and TRUTH.... as inconvenient as it may be, starts purging itself.

I am inclined to see her developing her own conscience coming into adulthood and not being afraid to talk.
She has her own memories.

She is the true living victim of this situation and circumstance.
I hope she is living well.

moo

 

[Awakening]

Thanks JLZ. So we have receipts for the pharmacy and I believe he paid cash for the newspaper but what about the phone calls he made that morning. How thoroughly were those calls investigated? It’s been said that ff was on a phone call to a client from 9:17 that lasted 37min. He also had a missed at 9:45am and that missed call showed in the call log on his phone. Correct me if I’m wrong but when a person is on a call and receives a call at the same time, the missed call doesn’t appear in the call log at all. It appears in messages if theres a voicemail to retrieve but not in the call log. I remember something similar happened with BS when he returned fm call at 9:10 but couldn’t get through. Phone records apparently didn’t show this call

I’m not sure it matters? FF has never been a suspect.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Thanks JLZ. So we have receipts for the pharmacy and I believe he paid cash for the newspaper but what about the phone calls he made that morning. How thoroughly were those calls investigated? It’s been said that ff was on a phone call to a client from 9:17 that lasted 37min. He also had a missed at 9:45am and that missed call showed in the call log on his phone. Correct me if I’m wrong but when a person is on a call and receives a call at the same time, the missed call doesn’t appear in the call log at all. It appears in messages if theres a voicemail to retrieve but not in the call log. I remember something similar happened with BS when he returned fm call at 9:10 but couldn’t get through. Phone records apparently didn’t show this call

BBM where is it said he paid cash?

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks JLZ. So we have receipts for the pharmacy and I believe he paid cash for the newspaper but what about the phone calls he made that morning. How thoroughly were those calls investigated? It’s been said that ff was on a phone call to a client from 9:17 that lasted 37min. He also had a missed at 9:45am and that missed call showed in the call log on his phone. Correct me if I’m wrong but when a person is on a call and receives a call at the same time, the missed call doesn’t appear in the call log at all. It appears in messages if theres a voicemail to retrieve but not in the call log. I remember something similar happened with BS when he returned fm call at 9:10 but couldn’t get through. Phone records apparently didn’t show this call

FD wasn't on a call ... he was in a GoTo meeting. Which is why he needed reliable internet in Lakewood.

GoTo is an online conferencing and meeting program.

 

[drsleuth]

Was just reading this article about Carl Stefanovic's 4yr old daughter going missing.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/karl-stefanovics-daughter-goes-missing-from-beach-home-prompting-police-helicopter-search/news-story/3cbc94fb84e39fc2558437a7ccd785b1

And I noted that he jumped on his Vespa scooter & searched the town when she could not be found in or around the house.

Thankfully she was found inside the house by police.

The TV host even got on his Vespa scooter and darted around town searching for Harper and asking locals if they had seen her, according to the Daily Mail.

The search was joined by neighbours and lifeguards as well as Ava, Harper’s teenage sister, and her boyfriend.

“Harper went missing for a short time and we feared the absolute worst because no one could find her,” Stefanovic told The Daily Telegraph.

“I called the police because she couldn’t be found inside or around the house and our priority is her safety.”

 

[JLZ]

Thanks JLZ. So we have receipts for the pharmacy and I believe he paid cash for the newspaper but what about the phone calls he made that morning. How thoroughly were those calls investigated? It’s been said that ff was on a phone call to a client from 9:17 that lasted 37min. He also had a missed at 9:45am and that missed call showed in the call log on his phone. Correct me if I’m wrong but when a person is on a call and receives a call at the same time, the missed call doesn’t appear in the call log at all. It appears in messages if theres a voicemail to retrieve but not in the call log. I remember something similar happened with BS when he returned fm call at 9:10 but couldn’t get through. Phone records apparently didn’t show this call

I'm not the person to ask about mobile phones. Is it the case that the call log is just what's on the phone? Personally I am confident that police would have pulled the actual records from the service provider. Perhaps your source of "it's been said" is not authoritative, or you could have misremembered or misinterpreted. Perhaps MFC had it in his call log that he'd missed a call from this person while he was not on a mobile call. Perhaps he got another kind of notification that he'd missed a call, and mistakenly remembered it as being in the call log.

 

[JLZ]

FD wasn't on a call ... he was in a GoTo meeting. Which is why he needed reliable internet in Lakewood.

GoTo is an online conferencing and meeting program.

I understood he did both--made some business calls and delivered his presentation via app.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not the person to ask about mobile phones. Is it the case that the call log is just what's on the phone? Personally I am confident that police would have pulled the actual records from the service provider. Perhaps your source of "it's been said" is not authoritative, or you could have misremembered or misinterpreted. Perhaps MFC had it in his call log that he'd missed a call from this person while he was not on a mobile call. Perhaps he got another kind of notification that he'd missed a call, and mistakenly remembered it as being in the call log.

My missed calls show up in my call log. The time of the missed call shows in red. I also receive a Telstra text message saying that I missed the call.
For calls that I haven't missed, the time of the call shows in black.

I think that the reason that the call to BS didn't show as a missed call is because (technically) the call wasn't missed. Because he was on the phone at the time, the call went to his voicemail. IIRC the FM left a message for BS on his voicemail and he returned her call later that day. Hadn't BS deleted his call log anyway?

It may be that the FF didn't have voicemail activated - I know I don't. I find it easier to return a missed call (if I want to) than to listen to voicemails and manage a voice mailbox.

imo

 

[Lemony]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

 

[LolaAngelina]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

This part was very interesting. I think he’s talking about PS?

 

[Marg944]

“This review should include all individuals involved, past and present, with the primary goal of uncovering the truth about what happened to William.

If mistakes were made, we must hold ourselves accountable and learn from these errors to prevent similar situations in the future.

The quest for justice for William must remain at the forefront of our efforts.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

 

[JBowie]

What concerns me [Gary Jubelin] most is the fact that the only detective to provide evidence was a junior officer with no prior experience in homicide investigations.

I was present in court when this person was asked questions she could not answer, as they related to decisions that I had made.

It is perplexing that no officers who led the investigation – including Detective Chief Inspectors Hanns Rupp, David Laidlaw and myself – were called to testify.

Strikes me as strange, too.

However, I fear that if the coroner returns an open finding, a public inquiry will be necessary.

Given what we (think we) know, I feel it's a certainty that an open finding is returned.

It would be interesting to know why Coroner Graham decided to exclude those police. Maybe she will explain that; maybe not.

I think some sort of public inquiry will eventuate if there is sufficient pressure on the government.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

 

[SouthAussie]

I think some sort of public inquiry will eventuate if there is sufficient pressure on the government.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

Maybe. There was a royal commission inquiry about the handling of Azaria Chamberlain's case ..... ie. Lindy Chamberlain's conviction. And there was an inquiry about the convictions of Kathleen Folbigg.

As Jubes said in the news.com.au article (about the FM) ... The impact on the nominated individual and those close to her is incalculable.

Commission of Inquiry (Chamberlain Convictions) Bill

Records of 1986 about the commission of Inquiry (Chamberlain Convictions) Bill.

dpsc.nt.gov.au

2022 Folbigg Inquiry

2022 Inquiry into the convictions of Kathleen Megan Folbigg

2022folbigginquiry.dcj.nsw.gov.au

 

[JLZ]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/former-william-tyrrell-cop-gary-jubelin-reflects-on-inquest/news-story/2e1ef7c1df94e25516359ca3cb796650

And what about this:

I can’t speak for the others, but I believe I possess significant evidence that could shed light on what happened to William, yet I was not summoned to provide my insights.

Gary, if you can write a newspaper article, you can write a letter to the coroner. Irrespective of whether you are "summoned", there is no justification for withholding "significant evidence".

 

[SouthAussie]

Gary, if you can write a newspaper article, you can write a letter to the coroner. Irrespective of whether you are "summoned", there is no justification for withholding "significant evidence".

No doubt the circumstantial evidence is in the police brief.

Jubes testifying at the inquest would likely have been him giving his opinions on the evidence. Something which the Coroner seems to have not wanted to hear from Rupp, Jubes, or Laidlaw. She seems to have wanted to make up her own mind about any circumstantial evidence.

(We already know that there is no hard or forensic evidence.)

imo

 

[Raina_the_observer]

And what about this:

I can’t speak for the others, but I believe I possess significant evidence that could shed light on what happened to William, yet I was not summoned to provide my insights.

Gary, if you can write a newspaper article, you can write a letter to the coroner. Irrespective of whether you are "summoned", there is no justification for withholding "significant evidence".

What he really means is that he has theories that he believes, not evidence.

 

[SouthAussie]

Gary, if you can write a newspaper article, you can write a letter to the coroner. Irrespective of whether you are "summoned", there is no justification for withholding "significant evidence".

Just wanted to let you know more about this @JLZ, because I thought I remembered communications between the Coroners Office and Jubes about the inquest.

This happened in June 2021.


"Despite still not wanting to call me as a witness, the State Government's Director of Inquests wrote asking me to set out on paper what I knew about the case.
I wrote back saying I was concerned 'potential evidence ... has been lost'. Evidence we'd gathered when I led the investigation had not been put to witnesses, I wrote, because we had understood they would be questioned about it during the inquest hearings. After I was taken off the case, this had not happened. Over more than a dozen pages, I also tried to explain what we'd learned about some of these people."

(I didn't add those dots between 'potential evidence' and 'has been lost'. Jubes did. Probably not wanting to reveal in his book what that evidence was.)

Ref: Badness by Gary Jubelin, Chapter: Stolen from Me, page 158

 

[JLZ]

No doubt the circumstantial evidence is in the police brief.

Jubes testifying at the inquest would likely have been him giving his opinions on the evidence. Something which the Coroner seems to have not wanted to hear from Rupp, Jubes, or Laidlaw. She seems to have wanted to make up her own mind about any circumstantial evidence.

(We already know that there is no hard or forensic evidence.)

imo

Just wanted to let you know more about this @JLZ, because I thought I remembered communications between the Coroners Office and Jubes about the inquest.

This happened in June 2021.


"Despite still not wanting to call me as a witness, the State Government's Director of Inquests wrote asking me to set out on paper what I knew about the case.
I wrote back saying I was concerned 'potential evidence ... has been lost'. Evidence we'd gathered when I led the investigation had not been put to witnesses, I wrote, because we had understood they would be questioned about it during the inquest hearings. After I was taken off the case, this had not happened. Over more than a dozen pages, I also tried to explain what we'd learned about some of these people."

(I didn't add those dots between 'potential evidence' and 'has been lost'. Jubes did. Probably not wanting to reveal in his book what that evidence was.)

Ref: Badness by Gary Jubelin, Chapter: Stolen from Me, page 158

Then the coroner has "heard from" at least two of those senior officers, Laidlaw and Jubelin. In the case of Laidlaw it was a sworn statement. Jubelin could have done the same if he'd wanted, and perhaps he did. So how exactly is the inquest outcome going to be prejudiced by the senior officers not being called to give oral evidence?

Evidence we'd gathered when I led the investigation had not been put to witnesses, I wrote, because we had understood they would be questioned about it during the inquest hearings.

I think this is an interesting subject--the protocol of the relationship between police and coronial investigations, and whether William's inquest was an experiment outside the existing protocol.

 

[SouthAussie]

So how exactly is the inquest outcome going to be prejudiced by the senior officers not being called to give oral evidence?

Will it affect the inquest outcome, or will it affect public perceptions?
The Coroner has all of the info. The public doesn't.

imo

 

[Chrissy74]

Will it affect the inquest outcome, or will it affect public perceptions?
The Coroner has all of the info. The public doesn't.

imo

Why count chickens before they’re hatched? The coroner’s written findings have yet to be handed down. We still don’t know for certain what her findings will be. If current systems require further assessment and necessary changes to prevent a similar situation from occurring again im sure the coroner will address this in her recommendations. If policies and procedures have already been amended then there’s no need for the coroner to make such recommendations. All GJ is doing is creating an unnecessary diversion and distraction to the facts that have already been presented to the coroner. The public will never know all the info the coroner has and for good reason. The same can be said for the fm whose reps have called for police to disclose all the evidence they have on her. It’s possible there’s evidence (even circumstantial) in the brief that may lead to future charges and even a conviction and likely why the coroner redacted most of Laidlaw’s statement and made the decision not to call on him to testify at the recent hearing.
IMO it’s hypocritical of GJ to state:
“If mistakes were made, we must hold ourselves accountable” when he himself made a huge mistake by illegally recording conversations with a poi and having no remorse for what he did and taking no accountability for his own actions even after a guilty verdict was handed down by the judge.