Barnhill

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila, I do believe that if you RE READ my post #52 carefully, I did not put things the way that you appear to have interpreted them.

I merely state that IF one of the W's guests had access to JonBenet, could they have set up the 'secret visit by Santa'. Questions I have posed are whether the guests were even in town during the three weeks of visits by JonBenet after weekends at home PRIOR to Christmas. IF they were around, then potential for secret talks about secret visit are a possibility.

WE do not know what DATE JonBenet told her little friend about the SECRET visit to come AFTER Christmas, do WE?

IF we knew the exact date of this little conversation by two little girls, this might pinpoint WHO had told JonBenet of the UPCOMING secret visit etc.

I would see no use of the school nurse to HOLLER child abuse and call in the AUTHORITIES IF IF IF the little girl merely had a sore bottom, and a history of doctor visit problems anyhow, and no other signs. The school nurse may have called the Ramsey home and talked with someone about the FREQUENT visits, OR she could have left a message on an answering machine, that could have been heard by anyone in the R home. Hmmm. IF IF IF the school nurse did that. I have to wonder why or how we knew that information anyway.

I have forgotten any source, but it was posted by Zaniah a poster on WS, a very long time ago. Zaniah was not a poster who just made things up. She was extremely thorough in her postings.


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OK Camper. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post.

I don't see the point in discussing the people you mention in relation to the secret visit by Santa as the only person I think would have told JonBenet about the visit would have been Santa himself and he was at the December 23 party.

From my recollection of what I read in PMPT the little girl conversation was several days before Christmas.

And it's true, I don't know any of the details of the school nurse visit so I shouldn't have got carried away and said what I did about the school nurse.

 

[Camper]

OK Camper. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post.

I don't see the point in discussing the people you mention in relation to the secret visit by Santa as the only person I think would have told JonBenet about the visit would have been Santa himself and he was at the December 23 party.

From my recollection of what I read in PMPT the little girl conversation was several days before Christmas.

And it's true, I don't know any of the details of the school nurse visit so I shouldn't have got carried away and said what I did about the school nurse.

---------->>>Thats alright, we all get in a hurry sometimes. I too would like to hear more about the Chrismas caroling, wonder who all went, where they went and what day this happened Sissi, tall order huh. BUT possible IF IF IF JonBenet went and might have had a person dressed as Santa who went with them caroling. I have never seen a person in a Santa suit caroling BUT it was BOULDER, so who knows.

By the way, Santa's are everywhere at Christmas! Jingle, Jingle. Am I rembering correctly that there was an EXTRA
Santa suit in the basement from prior times, er am I coo coo?


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[tipper]

---------->>>Thats alright, we all get in a hurry sometimes. I too would like to hear more about the Chrismas caroling, wonder who all went, where they went and what day this happened Sissi, tall order huh. BUT possible IF IF IF JonBenet went and might have had a person dressed as Santa who went with them caroling. I have never seen a person in a Santa suit caroling BUT it was BOULDER, so who knows.

By the way, Santa's are everywhere at Christmas! Jingle, Jingle. Am I rembering correctly that there was an EXTRA
Santa suit in the basement from prior times, er am I coo coo?

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That whole carolling thing has never been clear to me but my recollection is it was at the White's party and some carollers came by and a few of the party goers joined them. Who, how long etc I've never known.

 

[Jayelles]

That whole carolling thing has never been clear to me but my recollection is it was at the White's party and some carollers came by and a few of the party goers joined them. Who, how long etc I've never known.

I think it could be important to know if JonBenet joined them - for forensic purposes.

 

[Camper]

Good to follow this bit of the activities the evening of the 25th.

My whole center of thinking now is geared toward finding out WHO the WHO was that pre-arranged the thought in JonBenets mind that she was GOING to get a visit with Santa AFTER Christmas, and that it was most likely presented as a SECRET visit and not to tell anyone. IF it was being so looked forward to by JonBenet, WHY did she tell her little friend about it?

WAS JonBenet told to not tell 'the secret' specifically to her mom and dad?

Something rather like 'DON'T tell mommy and daddy' cuz its a secret! Which this caveate may not have specifically mentioned to not mention her little friend.

I am now wondering IF JonBenet told her mom of this upcoming secret visit, or if conditions of maintaining the 'secret' were discussed with JonBenet when the visit info was being planted in her mind.

DO you all remember when Burke was taken and questioned, the PD had asked if he had any secrets, and he responded that everyone has secrets and if you tell, they aren't secrets anymore. Sorry I don't have the complete info on a transcript of that, or source. Hop in anyone and help us out.

Out on a limb with this thought, 'could' the secret visit from Santa been told to JonBenet, by B who was merely bringing message of the 'secret visit' after Christmas.

I am probably certifiably nuts on that thought. Hmmm.

I am sorry I do not remember how PR was informed of a potential secret visit by Santa for JonBenet, via her little friend telling it. Anyone have that tidbit sourced?

I also do not remember IF the little friend told her mommy about the secret visit BEFORE the murder or AFTER?

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[sissi]

Jonbenet had spent a portion of the Christmas Eve afternoon playing at her friend Megan's house. She was bragging a bit to the child that she was going to have a special visit, a secret visit from Santa after Christmas. Likely the mother intervened at this point, because her child would feel not as "special",telling Jonbenet that Santa was coming to bring toys for everyone and it was "tonight". Jonbenet said, "yes", but it's a secret, he is coming tomorrow night too. Kostanick tried, several times, over days, maybe weeks, to get the attention of the BPD to share this information. I believe the Kostaniks were engineers , not people who would mess up on details. The BPD was not interested, because they already had their "suspect".

 

[Camper]

Jonbenet had spent a portion of the Christmas Eve afternoon playing at her friend Megan's house. She was bragging a bit to the child that she was going to have a special visit, a secret visit from Santa after Christmas. Likely the mother intervened at this point, because her child would feel not as "special",telling Jonbenet that Santa was coming to bring toys for everyone and it was "tonight". Jonbenet said, "yes", but it's a secret, he is coming tomorrow night too. Kostanick tried, several times, over days, maybe weeks, to get the attention of the BPD to share this information. I believe the Kostaniks were engineers , not people who would mess up on details. The BPD was not interested, because they already had their "suspect".

----------->>>Wonder when PR was told of this, or IF she waS told this information. IF BPD had related this early on, JonBenets encounters prior to Christmas could have been tracked to who possibly might have told her she was going to have a SECRET visit AFTER Christmas.

But perhaps yet another avenue of poor work on the part of the PD. Wonder what the PD did do when they heard this news from Mrs. Kostanik, WHO in the PD heard this information and how they dealt with it?


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[aussiesheila]

Jonbenet had spent a portion of the Christmas Eve afternoon playing at her friend Megan's house. She was bragging a bit to the child that she was going to have a special visit, a secret visit from Santa after Christmas. Likely the mother intervened at this point, because her child would feel not as "special",telling Jonbenet that Santa was coming to bring toys for everyone and it was "tonight". Jonbenet said, "yes", but it's a secret, he is coming tomorrow night too. Kostanick tried, several times, over days, maybe weeks, to get the attention of the BPD to share this information. I believe the Kostaniks were engineers , not people who would mess up on details. The BPD was not interested, because they already had their "suspect".

Yes Sissi, this is what I understood from reading PMPT all those years ago. I immediately thought it would have been Santa who told her about the secret visit from Santa and it would probably have been at their Christmas Party on Dec 23.

I don't know why Camper is on about it being B or 'the walker' or whoever. It would not have the same impact on a child being told by just anyone that Santa would pay a secret visit as it would being told by Santa himself that he would visit. And I'll bet that's who it was. It's a standard kind of setup tactic used by pedophiles - "a special little secret just between you and me, and NO-one else knows".

And sure, just as you say, the BPD ignored the Kostanicks, and lost yet another opportunity to collect vital evidence that would have helped incriminate those responsible for the murder IMO.

 

[Camper]

Yes Sissi, this is what I understood from reading PMPT all those years ago. I immediately thought it would have been Santa who told her about the secret visit from Santa and it would probably have been at their Christmas Party on Dec 23.

I don't know why Camper is on about it being B or 'the walker' or whoever. It would not have the same impact on a child being told by just anyone that Santa would pay a secret visit as it would being told by Santa himself that he would visit. And I'll bet that's who it was. It's a standard kind of setup tactic used by pedophiles - "a special little secret just between you and me, and NO-one else knows".

And sure, just as you say, the BPD ignored the Kostanicks, and lost yet another opportunity to collect vital evidence that would have helped incriminate those responsible for the murder IMO.

------------->>>I bolded in black your quote 'Aussisheila' that I am quizzing here. I donut git your reference to my being 'ON' about B or 'the walker'. First of all 'who is the walker you have said I was 'ON' ????

Next about being 'ON' Burke, I mentioned Burke because he possibly could have been told by the same 'santa' about the visit AFTER Christmas and that coulda been his secret, he coulda let the santa in 'that' night. DUH er huh?

I would hope that B is reading here, cuz he could hold the magic clue IF IF IF he was told the 'same secret tale'.

Also about B, WHY did the official interrogator of B, even ASK him IF IF he had any secrets or knew any secrets, I donut have the exact verbage here. I seem to recall that the R's were unhappy that B was quizzed at all.

Additionally JonBenet was only 6 years old, just how smart would any of us at the age of 6 be about a 'promised SECRET
visit from ANY santa. Christmas is such a highlight for any small child. WONDER how the R's children were ever told about the WHY of - WHY there was 'a' Santa in every store and street corner?

I don't know about the rest of you but at age six I was more gullible and believed dang near anything anyone told me.

Please do not attribute me as being 'ON' something without reading the context of my verbage carefully.


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[Eagle1]

Yoo-hoo everyone. Actually I thought I was probably the ONLY one who feels a number of people may have been there that night, Aussie. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

And I've always felt the main perp was at the party on the 23rd, who made JonBenet cry and try (I think) to call 911 because none of the adults were protecting her. And that he was the one who promised her another visit.
JMHO. So, I've always assumed it was after the 23rd when JBR told Megan, bragging, as if her little friend had seemed to her to be bragging about something and she had to top her.

No, I don't think the person would have promised the young brother a secret visit, simply because he was a boy and the pedophile liked little girls.

Everyone here has some very good ideas. I think it's rather amazing that we've been working on this case so long and still are coming up with new thoughts, getting in too much of a hurry once in a while and mis-reading each other slightly. Sorry I've been on break a couple of days, giving others a chance to say more, and,

I still have the question, could CG who I believe does resemble JAR, or the boarder, GM, have gone to Waterford, Mi impersonating JAR to try to arrange a boating accident. Does the fact that the two CA visitors belonged to a Kali cult, Goddess of DEATH, figure? Calls for speculation, but I think some people will have some pro's and con's ideas, hopefully. If Kali has anything to do with the case, I think other cults could also, like the Celtic one which held moonlight ceremonies in the hills, maybe others, that there's no telling how many people were actually in the house that night, the planned Michigan trip early the next morning was going to be the pilot's problem. The family would have been planning to sleep on the plane until time to meet JAR and Melinda and her fiance. Maybe someone has me mixed up with someone else. I never meant to imply in any way that only the family was there, as they'd said, which cast a lot of suspicion on them and probably isn't true. They evidently were covering up whatever kind of group certainly may have been there. Either because it was radical and shameful or because there would be reprisals, or for both reasons and possibly other reasons I haven't thought of.

 

[sissi]

I wish we knew more about the caroling, I don't know anymore than I said. It was Christmas (which in my part of the world does not bring out carolers), I found that odd, we do carol, days before, up to , and including Christmas Eve, but never on Christmas Day. White left the houseguests to join them, Jonbenet did not go, none of the Ramseys went, I do believe someone went with White, but I can't remember if it was one of the houseguests or if it was Fleet Jr.

 

[Eagle1]

I wish we knew more about the caroling, I don't know anymore than I said. It was Christmas (which in my part of the world does not bring out carolers), I found that odd, we do carol, days before, up to , and including Christmas Eve, but never on Christmas Day. White left the houseguests to join them, Jonbenet did not go, none of the Ramseys went, I do believe someone went with White, but I can't remember if it was one of the houseguests or if it was Fleet Jr.

That sounds so familiar, Sissi, that you must have gotten it from one of the books I have, probably Schiller's PMPT?

Were the carollers back before the R's left the Whites' that evening? I too am thinking it was one of the two male guests who went with FW but I could be wrong. They were both at the Whites' all evening, correct?

So neither of them was the walker who MAY have stayed in the house?

 

[aussiesheila]

------------->>>I bolded in black your quote 'Aussisheila' that I am quizzing here. I donut git your reference to my being 'ON' about B or 'the walker'. First of all 'who is the walker you have said I was 'ON' ????

Next about being 'ON' Burke, I mentioned Burke because he possibly could have been told by the same 'santa' about the visit AFTER Christmas and that coulda been his secret, he coulda let the santa in 'that' night. DUH er huh?

I would hope that B is reading here, cuz he could hold the magic clue IF IF IF he was told the 'same secret tale'.

Also about B, WHY did the official interrogator of B, even ASK him IF IF he had any secrets or knew any secrets, I donut have the exact verbage here. I seem to recall that the R's were unhappy that B was quizzed at all.

Additionally JonBenet was only 6 years old, just how smart would any of us at the age of 6 be about a 'promised SECRET
visit from ANY santa. Christmas is such a highlight for any small child. WONDER how the R's children were ever told about the WHY of - WHY there was 'a' Santa in every store and street corner?

I don't know about the rest of you but at age six I was more gullible and believed dang near anything anyone told me.

Please do not attribute me as being 'ON' something without reading the context of my verbage carefully.


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Sorry again Camper, my error, I meant to say "I don't know why Camper is on about it being B's boarder or 'the walker' or whoever."

In my post 50, I had mentioned that I thought CW or CG could have been 'the walker'.

In your reply, post 52 you then suggested one of these people might have been the one who mentioned the secret visit by Santa. Ths is what I was referring to when I said in my post 60 I didn't know why you were on about it being "B or 'the walker' or whoever" (meaning "B's boarder or 'the walker' or whoever").

Please, please I really did mean B's boarder when I incorrectly wrote B, I certainly did not mean Burke. And I did read your post correctly, I just didn't type mine correctly, sorry.

PS Camper, why do you suggest B's boarder or boyfriend as people who might have discussed the secret visit by Santa with JonBenet?

 

[aussiesheila]

Yoo-hoo everyone. Actually I thought I was probably the ONLY one who feels a number of people may have been there that night, Aussie. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Eagle1, We were talking about the possibility that CG, the Ca guest, was the walker, and then you asked - "would he have gone to Waterford to arrange a boating accident?". I assumed from this, that you had in mind there was just one perpetrator. I see I was wrong.

 

[Eagle1]

Not to worry, but what do you think about one of FW's two guests being the walker and boatman contact in Waterford, now that we've remembered the guests must have been at the Whites' at the time the walker was arriving. Then we discussed that one may have gone carolling with FW and the group of carollers.

Yep, I agree that there may have been quite a few perps, in various some- kind- of- capacities, whatever those might be. :waitasec:

 

[aussiesheila]

Not to worry, but what do you think about one of FW's two guests being the walker and boatman contact in Waterford, now that we've remembered the guests must have been at the Whites' at the time the walker was arriving. Then we discussed that one may have gone carolling with FW and the group of carollers.

Yep, I agree that there may have been quite a few perps, in various some- kind- of- capacities, whatever those might be. :waitasec:

It was me who suggested that CG might have been the walker, so yes that's who I believe it was. I still have to check up again on that boatman stuff - I've forgotten the detail.

 

[Tadpole12]

Rupert,

There are three major contradictions that prove John Ramsey was in the basement prior to 6:00 AM that morning.

John Ramsey is lying, not Officer Rick French and Fleet White. John was in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM, and here's why:

1. THE CHAIR: John Ramsey admitted he had to move the chair to get into the trainroom. Rick French and Fleet White did not have to move the chair at 6:00 AM and 6:15 AM respectively. The chair had already been moved earlier by John.

2. THE SUITCASE: John Ramsey admitted the suitcase was up against the the wall and directly under the window. The suitcase wasn't moved until about 6:15 AM when Fleet White searched the basement and admitted moving it from directly under the window to search for shards of glass. So John had to have seen the suitcase prior to Fleet moving it at 6:15 AM.

3. THE WINDOW: John Ramsey admitted he closed and latched the basement window (he says at 10 or 11 AM). But Rick French at 6:00 AM and Fleet White at 6:15 AM did not notice an open basement window, even though it was one of the things they were looking for in the basement (there's only two windows in the basement). So John had to have closed and latched the basement window prior to 6:00 AM.

John Ramsey was lying on all three counts.

BlueCrab

bump for access

 

[Tadpole12]

Jacques started staying over there, and when JonBenet wanted to see her dog, she went over and played with him.

When was the last time JBR would have seen Jacques?



JBR at the mall ..... Dec 22

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzLg8blEWRA&feature=autoplay&list=ULJZ5-eOxXFVs&index=2&playnext=3[/ame]
JonBenet on ET:
Footage of the December 22nd, 1996 mall appearance
AM 11:51
Dec 22 1996

 

[Tadpole12]

Jonbenet had spent a portion of the Christmas Eve afternoon playing at her friend Megan's house. She was bragging a bit to the child that she was going to have a special visit, a secret visit from Santa after Christmas. Likely the mother intervened at this point, because her child would feel not as "special",telling Jonbenet that Santa was coming to bring toys for everyone and it was "tonight". Jonbenet said, "yes", but it's a secret, he is coming tomorrow night too. Kostanick tried, several times, over days, maybe weeks, to get the attention of the BPD to share this information. I believe the Kostaniks were engineers , not people who would mess up on details. The BPD was not interested, because they already had their "suspect".

Jonbenet had spent a portion of the Christmas Eve afternoon playing at her friend Megan's house.