CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[ShowMe]

I'm certain A believes F's family has all the facts but I gleen a different opinion of the story from between the lines of what has been posted and published to date. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and not everyone is as focused on the illusive pot of gold. We don't all have the same level of interest in or viewpoint of the value of money. Other values rank much higher in importance on my personal list and, that dictates how I form opinions different from others. Everyone brings their own values to the table when forming and sharing opinion.
If Mr. H would return to his home and, if he is in his right mind, clarify and/or discover the real story going on, each poster and the family members should either be very relieved and enlightened or very ashamed. Unfortunately, that may never happen. Personally, I wish to remain optimistic that Mr. H and the truth will come out and prevail, the sooner the better. Now that the honeymoon is over, Mr. H can clearly see what he married to, for better or worse. The alternative is another viewpoint entirely with LE claims of no evidence or suspects, for whatever it's worth. Is LE still investigating or has this become a cold case. There are so many scenarios to consider. It is mind boggling.
I understand that wills and trusts are two different documents, one is public and one is private, though California law may be quite different than here in our state.

 

[JulieR]

The legal filings were discussed a couple of page back. It was the daughters who didn't waste anything filing. They filed 12 days after he disappeared claiming they needed it for Bob related issues. The judge didn't fall for it and shot them down. Below is from an Oct 8th article.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

(snip)

THE AFTERMATH

Notes written in Bob Harrod's hand found around the house indicate Bob Harrod intended to put his new wife's name on various accounts, Loomis said. Police say that, including properties and other assets, Bob Harrod was a multi-millionaire.
Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.
His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.
"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."
Fontelle Harrod said several days after Bob Harrod disappeared, his three daughters came to his house where Fontelle was staying and told her she wasn't entitled to any of their father's assets.
According to records from Orange County Probate Court, Brady and Borcher filed a petition for conservatorship to gain control of their father's assets Aug. 7.
Fontelle Harrod is contesting the action and is still living in Bob Harrod's house, with the locks changed.
Brady said they brought the matter to court because they wanted to free up some of the money to offer a reward for information leading to Bob Harrod's whereabouts, as well as money to pay for bills and maintenance at the house.
The judge ruled against them.
Records pertaining to the case in probate are sealed, and the next hearing is Nov. 10.

I hope none of them get to look after the estate until he is found. I find the wife's actions strange since they have only been married a VERY short time. If she truly loves him and the money was not her intent she should be making that clear to the children that she just wants her husband found and she is sticking around until he is, really she is not morally in titled to anything he owns. The children sound like down right gold diggers, go earn your own money! Crap the parents earned the money let them do with it as they like.
Has any of this family even done or arranged any ground searches for him?

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.livingtrustvswill.com/
'snipped'



The Last Will and Testament handles several critical duties:

• ">Naming guardians for dependents ">Appointing executors to manage and distribute your estate
• Declaring beneficiaries of your estate

Trusts typically contain No Contest Clauses disinheriting anyone legally contesting the estate, which can freeze an estate for years and increasing the stress on the executor's job.

You maintain control of assets in your Living Trust by naming yourself both the Trustor(s) and initial Trustee(s) of the trust.

Assets typically transferred to a trust: Property, bank accounts, vehicles and non-titled assets such as furniture, art, jewelry, etc.

Assets not in the trust but naming the trust as a beneficiary: Life insurance, annuities

Assets kept away from the trust: Retirement accounts, such as IRA's and 401k's. Consult your financial advisor.

more at link...

This is just general information, not specific to anyone.

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.nafep.com/public%20info/public-info_e-p-info_tools_trust-wills.htm
Trusts:
'snipped'

Revocable and Irrevocable
An arrangement where the trust may be revoked or canceled at will by the grantors is known as a revocable trust. If a trust cannot be canceled by a family member without permission of the other parties to the trust, the arrangement is called an irrevocable trust. Irrevocable trusts usually are recognized as independent legal entities whereas revocable trusts are not.
The well known living trust referred to above is almost always a revocable type. However the grantors may choose to have an irrevocable trust and then receive some special or extra benefits. For example, an irrevocable, grantor controlled trust is the basis for creating an effective asset protection strategy, such as the NAFEP Premier II Life Estate Trust.
....more at link....

I don't know if Robert Harrod had a revocable or irrevocable trust.
But, with all the talk of conservatorship, etc., I am wondering if it is
the irrevocable trust.


Anyone know?

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.whyatrust.com/trust-funds-bypass.shtml
'snipped'

Bypass Trust
A bypass trust fund is usually set up by married couples whose estates would go beyond the exemptible amount allowed by the IRS for estate taxes. It is set up to go around the estate taxes upon the death of either of the spouses in order to avoid paying taxes twice on the estate. The estate would be taxed once on the death of the spouse who leaves his or her estate to the other spouse and then taxed again on their death. Hence the term “bypass” trust.
How It Works
In a nutshell a bypass trust fund is set up usually my married couples. They make each other the beneficiary of their estate. A husband and wife have four million dollars in assets. This is above the exemption amount allowed by the IRS. So they decide to place their assets in a bypass trust fund. The husband dies and normally his estate would go to his wife and she would have to pay taxes on his estate then her heirs would have to pay the taxes again upon her death. As it would now be part of her estate. But the bypass trust would put his estate directly into the trust fund avoiding the estate taxes

..more at link...

Considering what has been reported about Robert Harrod's income and the mention
by the daughters of the need to get paperwork from their dad after their mother's death, this is what I found online.
It could be a bypass trust.
It seems to be set up for married couples over a certain income limit.

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.whyatrust.com/trust-funds-bypass.shtml
'snipped'
Limited Access Upon Death
The beneficiary also cannot do just pass the trust on to his estate or choice of heirs upon his death. Bypass funds are set up so that the trust passes into the care of those chosen beforehand. The trust fund could state upon the death of the original beneficiary the trust goes to children, relatives or a business. You can also simply name the next beneficiary as well.

Well, it just gets a little more detailed
and confusing
the more I read.
It seems obvious to me that Robert and Georgia
Harrod were serious about
setting up financial details in case of their deaths.
IMO

 

[nervous_nellie]

i am having difficulty deciding what i think might of happened because i cant really tell what sort of person bh really is... on the one hand we see him described by the daughters as cold, controlling & miserly. their whole story of how he withheld money that would have provided better medical care for their mother and now he is withholding copies of their mothers trust ...hmmm...so, then the daughters are saying that the barber was draining him of money and THEY were just stepping in to protect their elderly dad, ya know because they care SO much about him. OK - is he a weak, too kind elderly old man that needs protection OR is he a cheap miserly cold uncaring jerk who is stealing the inheritance left to them by their mother? (that is what i get from this whole "withholding copies of the trust"is that he is stealing something from them.) sorry girls, you cant have it both ways, at least in my opinion.

then we have fontelle. this is a really strange story ... im not really feeling her in this either - but i have been known to be wrong before :blushing: BUT i think she should definitely be looked at as well as a matter of being thorough. since we dont really know the truth about bob there is no way to know what he was planning on doing with his money ... if he is the jerk, then any of these folks may have had a reason to kill him, including the housekeeper that was sitting on the porch...anyway, back to fontelle, it sort of seems to me that it would be more likely for bob to have met a complete stranger and married them than this woman that shows up from WWII after his wife dies and they get married...hmmm...maybe its just me, but i think that is odd and doesnt seem like a normal twist of fate.

so, who is bob herrod? :waitasec:

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.answers.com/topic/bypass-trust
'snipped'

Irrevocable bypass trust:
Agreement allowing parents to pass assets on to their children to reduce estate taxes. The trust must be made irrevocable, meaning that the terms can never be changed. Assets put in such a trust usually exceed the amount that the children and other heirs can receive tax-free at a parent's death. The estate tax exclusion amount was $2 million in 2006, scheduled to increase gradually to $3.5 million by 2009 according to the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Parents can arrange to receive income from the assets during their lifetimes and may even be able to touch the principal in case of dire need. One variation of a bypass trust is the qualified terminable interest property trust, or Q-Tip Trust.
bypass trust is typically created as part of an A/B Living trust estate plan after the death of the first spouse to die. During life, a married couple transfers ownership of property into a trust. Upon the death of the first party to die, the terms of the trust require that some portion of the property be transferred into "TRUST A" and some other portion into "TRUST B." The first of these trusts, A, holds property that remains accessible to the surviving spouse during his or her life. That way the surviving spouse has enough wealth at hand to provide for their needs until death. The second trust, B, receives the other portion of the original trust's property in a manner that minimizes taxation, which necessarily prevents it from being accessible to the surviving spouse during his/her life. This trust is meant to pass on property to heirs, usually the spouse's children, on death of the remaining spouse, but in a way that minimizes the Estate Tax and Gift Tax that would have been applied to the property if it had passed through a Will, or if given as a gift during life (Gift Inter Vivos). This Trust B takes advantage of such features as Step-Up in Basis (where the value of the property transferred to the successors of the Trust is said to be the fair market value at the time of the transfer at death, and not what the Parents originally paid for it. This means less Capital Gains Tax will have to be paid by the children when they sell the property).
A bypass trust receives property as specified in the trust document - the bypass trust may receive all of the property of the decedent spouse, or half of the spouses' co-owned property, or it may receive enough property to make full use of the decedent's estate tax exclusion.

much more at link...

Way too much legalese for me.

I can only hope that Robert Harrod comes home and this can all be settled.

 

[dreamweaver]

i am having difficulty deciding what i think might of happened because i cant really tell what sort of person bh really is... on the one hand we see him described by the daughters as cold, controlling & miserly. their whole story of how he withheld money that would have provided better medical care for their mother and now he is withholding copies of their mothers trust ...hmmm...so, then the daughters are saying that the barber was draining him of money and THEY were just stepping in to protect their elderly dad, ya know because they care SO much about him. OK - is he a weak, too kind elderly old man that needs protection OR is he a cheap miserly cold uncaring jerk who is stealing the inheritance left to them by their mother? (that is what i get from this whole "withholding copies of the trust"is that he is stealing something from them.) sorry girls, you cant have it both ways, at least in my opinion.

then we have fontelle. this is a really strange story ... im not really feeling her in this either - but i have been known to be wrong before :blushing: BUT i think she should definitely be looked at as well as a matter of being thorough. since we dont really know the truth about bob there is no way to know what he was planning on doing with his money ... if he is the jerk, then any of these folks may have had a reason to kill him, including the housekeeper that was sitting on the porch...anyway, back to fontelle, it sort of seems to me that it would be more likely for bob to have met a complete stranger and married them than this woman that shows up from WWII after his wife dies and they get married...hmmm...maybe its just me, but i think that is odd and doesnt seem like a normal twist of fate.

so, who is bob herrod? :waitasec:

==============================================

nervous nellie:
It seems to me that Robert Harrod is a contradiction in terms.
Most of us are that way.
We have different facets to our personality.

Robert Harrod is being held up to the merciless glare of the
media, which would include us/WS.

I think Robert H was all the things stated in posts.
He was kind. He was miserly.
He loved his wife of over 50 years.
He was miserly.
He was a good dad, took care of the family for all these years.
He was cool and distant from the daughters.
(Some men of that age just are that way, not showing emotions)
He was generous to barber lady.
He met and married F., whom he seems to love.
He does not seem to have told F about his financial means.
He had a lot of money, because he was miserly.

So, who is Bob Harrod?
IMO, a different person to different people.

 

[ohiogirl]

I found it strange that they never really seemed to consider that BH met with foul play. They kept asking for him to please come home, clear things up. It sounded like they realy felt he did this on purpose.

Also, the Fontelle dilemma, why is she still in his house? If it were me, if I had just married someone I hadn't seen in years, I wouldn't think I would lay claim to his property immediately, UNLESS, that was what I wanted all along, OR, I had reason to believe that someone in the family was responsible for his disappearance.
Just thinking out loud.

 

[ohiogirl]

Another thing, I really do questions their airing the private family dynamics on a public forum. It's one thing to ask for help in finding a missing relative, another thing completely to discuss his financial habits. JMO of course.

 

[In da Middle]

Fontelle may be staying there because she has nowhere else to go. Do we know if she maybe sold her previous residence or may have it rented out?
she may not have much choice. She obviously planned on moving there, so she may not have had any reason to keep property in Missouri.

 

[nervous_nellie]

==============================================

nervous nellie:
It seems to me that Robert Harrod is a contradiction in terms.
Most of us are that way.
We have different facets to our personality.

Robert Harrod is being held up to the merciless glare of the
media, which would include us/WS.

I think Robert H was all the things stated in posts.
He was kind. He was miserly.
He loved his wife of over 50 years.
He was miserly.
He was a good dad, took care of the family for all these years.
He was cool and distant from the daughters.
(Some men of that age just are that way, not showing emotions)
He was generous to barber lady.
He met and married F., whom he seems to love.
He does not seem to have told F about his financial means.
He had a lot of money, because he was miserly.

So, who is Bob Harrod?
IMO, a different person to different people.

well dreamweaver i hope you are correct! more importantly i want him to be safe somewhere chuckling about all the fuss...but unfortunately i doubt that this is the case. the known contradictions cause my compass to constantly spin. all in all i think that the daughters really have the most motive, means and opportunity if the motive is money. i guess just because it has not been revealed to us does not mean that another motive could exist. did bob have real estate properties? business partners? other family such as brothers or sisters? i usually only read here and i dont recall any details that included any of these factors. the concerned neighbor had some interesting info that i havent seen any response too yet or have i missed it?

 

[suzyq211]

Fontelle may be staying there because she has nowhere else to go. Do we know if she maybe sold her previous residence or may have it rented out?
she may not have much choice. She obviously planned on moving there, so she may not have had any reason to keep property in Missouri.

Good point!!! Plus, Fontelle married this man and as far as we know LOVES him. Cares about what happened to him. Give me a break... if she was looking for the good life she could have had it with Mr. Harrod, without risking her freedom by coming up with some crazy scheme! Sorry, I just dont buy Fontelle initiating this!!

 

[Angelo]

Another thing, I really do questions their airing the private family dynamics on a public forum. It's one thing to ask for help in finding a missing relative, another thing completely to discuss his financial habits. JMO of course.

Agree.

The daughters were not posting and asking for help in searching for their father. They seemed to want to get their side of the story out. They brought up the money. They were the ones bemoaning the fact that their father was stingy with his money.

A

 

[cloudajo]

The daughter states her father disappears around noon or 1 pm.

Reporter: “Julie says her husband was with her dad, at his home yesterday. He went to the hardware store alone. When he came back…”
Julie: “My dad was gone.”
Reporter: “What time?”
Julie: “We’re thinking maybe 1, noon?”

http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=ac85bbd7-919c-45df-8bff-de9407f59354&src=front

The time conflicts are something I can't get past. As we know, the oldest daughter also posted on Aug 11 that she heard her BIL say he was going to the hardware store when she spoke to her father by phone, estimated at 11:00-12:00. A story about Bob being missing posted on the youngest daughter's community website on Aug 4, says Bob was last seen by SIL about 1PM before going to Home Depot. In the discussion forum linked to story, the youngest daughter was quick to point out that the flier had Bob's eye color incorrect, but said nothing about the time last seen being incorrect.

 

[ShowMe]

Snipped from IS messages:
"SO SORRY I was probably assuming clarity of my question but my mind is not operating at full capacity recently. I've been overwhelmed and I'm not so young. HA!

F was concerned that she should be able to write checks on Dad's checkbook and we tried to explain that the checking accounts and all assets are listed as part of the family trust. Our family had to obtain legal advise about what we should be doing to maintain our parent's trust, pay his bills, etc. temporarily, since his whereabouts are not known. Initially the attorney advised that, since the home is part of the trust, the family should not allow the new wife to stay there. THIS STATEMENT WAS IMMEDIATELY RETRACTED, once we made it clear we did not want to do that to her, as was explained to F, in the presence of her daughter. Perhaps too much background information was given on the step by step process we went thru to find out what needed to be done in this emergency situation. F had her own perception of what was said and repeatedly told the story that the family was kicking her out and that it was the attorney's doing. The rest of what we explained to her must have gone with the wind in the process.

We we were trying to be totally honest with her and were not expecting her to "take our word for it". Her daughter was present during the entire explanation process. Fontelle made a statement that "she had been told" that it was her house now and that she didn't have to allow family access to it. She insinuated that the Police told her this. We advised that she had been given inaccurate information, that unfortunately Dad had not yet accurately explained the facts of the family trust to her and, since we are not licenced to practice law, recommended she seek legal advise if she wanted to confirm the legal advise we had received about these matters.

You're exactly right that no inheritance laws come into play at this time but realistically the trust assets must be maintained in the meanwhile and F needs to be reimbursed for expenditures beyond her ability to take on. According to F, Dad was supposed to reimburse her travel and shipping expense upon arrival but he is nowhere to be found. That sounded reasonable but, our parents stictly outlined their wishes for successor trustees etc and, since Dad has not returned, temporary conservatorship must be ordered by the courts before anyone will be able to manage the trust and make these documented emergency reimbursements, pay utilities, etc. I'm sure I'm probably not using the proper terminology here but that's the very basic jist of it, from my own understanding.

Please don't be mistaken, I'm not talking about any con here at all, just emergency maintenance until we know more. It was thought F needed to confirm our explanation by seeking family law advise, since Dad's attorney refuses to represent any one other than Dad, not even his family or F. It would be a conflict of interest.

I hope this makes more sense.

Track 29: Son and Daughter live in Missouri and Kansas. Daughter went back last Monday, son arrived Tuesday. They were/are staying with Fontelle in the family's home.
Not sure if POI was invited or uninvited but sounds as if invited and invited into the house, from what I was told by reliable source."
(SNIPPED)

The above was posted 8/9 on InSessions by, I think, one of the daughters. It is one of many messages written in response to the questions posted by others, so I had to read those questions too. This is the type of information that explains alot to me why talk of money ever became their issue to write about early on. My viewpoint is that F's wanting his checkbook and needing to have understanding Mr. H's finances lead to discussion of money in the early days.

So, you see, each of us read something different in those early posts. I did see where they tried to call in search teams but the police were not receptive and did not follow up. I could be wrong but, think the daughters were trying to describe their father as the real person without any fantasy sugar-coating, in order to help others understand what may have been going on inside his head.

I could not find any posts by the CA Natives since around the end of August.

But, then each of us perceives these issues differently.

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped] did bob have real estate properties? business partners? other family such as brothers or sisters? i usually only read here and i dont recall any details that included any of these factors. the concerned neighbor had some interesting info that i havent seen any response too yet or have i missed it?

I don't know if Bob had any brothers or sisters, but he owned properties (see below snipped from OC Register article).

Police say that, including properties and other assets, Bob Harrod was a multi-millionaire.

From 1953-2002: the Harrods live in Monrovia. Bob Harrod works first for Bell & Howell handling contracts, and then for the aerospace firm Aerojet. He sometimes travels for business. He also owns some rental properties and builds his wealth through a combination of wise investing, purchasing properties and what his daughter Roberta Brady called “extreme frugality.”

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped]
Has any of this family even done or arranged any ground searches for him?

I don’t know about ground searches, but the one daughter posted that her BIL drove a long ways back to the area just to distribute flyers near Bob’s home, since they were told that the neighborhood had been canvassed. The youngest daughter (BIL/SIL’s wife) also posted on her community forum that her husband had been “canvassing OC and posting fliers” and she posted to a community member offering to help that she would let them know if they needed assistance.

 

[cloudajo]

Readers being played?

The oldest daughter posted on IS forum on Aug 11 that the changing of the locks was her suggestion as she was concerned for F’s safety from the barber.

On the same day, the youngest daughter posted on her community forum that “his new wife has changed all the locks, so if he tries to return he will not be able to get back in with his keys.”

No Funds / Cabinet?

One daughter posted asking for a prayer as “family has no liquid assets to hire search dogs.” She also posted in mid Aug that the probate “emergency” petition was to obtain trust moneys to get funds to offer a reward.

The youngest daughter posted in early Sep on her community forum that she was giving away an 11 ft. L x 3 ft W x 4 1/2 ft tall oak display case. She said the cabinet was worth approx. $2,000, and that if delivered, she would like her community website to receive $2,000 as a donation for delivery.

Why not a donation toward hiring search dogs or offering a reward? Also, she seemed very anxious to get rid of that display case, bumping the post several times, and finally got rid of it several days later. Call me suspicious, but I hope the PPD tracks that cabinet down and inspects it for any trace evidence.

IMO