CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[eyes4crime]

Yes, This is a beautiful post! There are wonderful people that are so deserving of a 2nd chance. I have the most wonderful SIL in the world. I love her more than I do my own brother! Her mother was a single mother and was the most selfish woman I had ever met. When her daughters mother-in law passed away, she moved right in there and married the father in law and took away everything from the children before they could blink and eye. Then her husband died. Those adult children were not even left with a trinket of their father and mothers. Next, a family friend up in Washington dies of cancer. She's on the next plane and marries husband # 4. So, Yes there are women like this. They are not all wonderful as the woman your Dad met.
Regarding the Alzheimers..My Mom has been to the doctor 6 times because she is forgetful, keeps getting lost, bangs her head, starts fires in her apt..But, the doctor says..Oh, its just her age..He doesnt think its Alzheimers (at this point). Is there a pre-dementia phase?? If there is, my Mom is there!
I used to post on this thread and I stopped because it got too frustrating and their were just too many unanswered questions because I just don't think there is a homicide here. Guess I'll stop again.

Whooo - I never said all 'late-in-life' relationships were for the right reason! There are plenty of vultures in this world, children, family, and mates in all walks of life.

My point in sharing the story about my dad is that he became involved with a woman who had many of the same personal characteristics as our mom had. If the woman he was with after our mom's death was 180 degrees different from what we had seen all our lives, you can bet all of us kids would have been disturbed. What's really interesting, is that her family was wondering the same things about our dad and his family. We were all doing background checks on one another while dad and friend were trusting their instincts and having a great time.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that if any of us children had approached our dad about his irrevocable trust, he would have been offended and outraged! There wasn't a one of us who wanted our dad to see us as greedy and selfish, not after what he'd been through in taking care of mom. No money would be worth it!!!

Please - certainly not a reason to leave the thread just because I feel it's a homicide and you don't. There isn't a thread on WS that doesn't have a ton of unanswered questions. Sorry if I upset you. Please don't leave!

 

[Angelo]

I am not very proficient in these matters, but couldnt he just have the marriage anulled? Would he really leave everything at 81 years of age? The mother's trust is one thing, but his money is HIS to use as he sees fit. I cant stand when crows are hovering over the estate of a parent who isnt even dead yet!!

I know its hard to think of children doing such a thing, but its very possible, hell, in this day and age its more than likely!

Agree. Bob married Fontelle because he wanted to. He was getting ready for her arrival. He was happy, doesn't sound like his daughters were. IMO

Also, it had been over a year since Bob lost his first wife.

 

[Angelo]

But LE is not staying out of it. They are treating it as a homicide investigation per their words (even if they have no evidence Bob is dead or alive). They administered polygraphs at the end of 2009.

I wish we knew who took a polygraph, if anyone refused the polygragh and what the results were.

 

[Fairy1]

I definitely believe Bob's daughters could be responsible for his disappearance. However, I don't believe they're the ONLY people that should be looked at and I fear that has been LE's position, thereby bringing the case to a screeching halt.

IIRC, it was said (by the daughters?) that Bob had given the barber lady in excess of $50,000 (which should be easy enough to prove). I think that's odd and wouldn't blame the family one bit for questioning it. I realize she and her partner have been "cleared" by LE, but have all of their friends been looked at?

I also think it's odd that Bob and Fontelle married so quickly after reuniting and I consider her behavior since he went missing to be questionable.

Just my opinions, but the bottom line is Bob is still missing and I wonder what LE is doing about it at this point.

 

[ShowMe]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that if any of us children had approached our dad about his irrevocable trust, he would have been offended and outraged! There wasn't a one of us who wanted our dad to see us as greedy and selfish, not after what he'd been through in taking care of mom. No money would be worth it!!!

Please - certainly not a reason to leave the thread just because I feel it's a homicide and you don't. There isn't a thread on WS that doesn't have a ton of unanswered questions. Sorry if I upset you. Please don't leave!

Was your father also the trustee of your mother's irrevocable trust, as is supposidly the case with Mr Harrod?

 

[ShowMe]

I wish we knew who took a polygraph, if anyone refused the polygragh and what the results were.

I've hear that even a sociopath can pass a polygraph while an innocent person could fail.

 

[ShowMe]

​

I definitely believe Bob's daughters could be responsible for his disappearance. However, I don't believe they're the ONLY people that should be looked at and I fear that has been LE's position, thereby bringing the case to a screeching halt.

IIRC, it was said (by the daughters?) that Bob had given the barber lady in excess of $50,000 (which should be easy enough to prove). I think that's odd and wouldn't blame the family one bit for questioning it. I realize she and her partner have been "cleared" by LE, but have all of their friends been looked at?

I also think it's odd that Bob and Fontelle married so quickly after reuniting and I consider her behavior since he went missing to be questionable.

Just my opinions, but the bottom line is Bob is still missing and I wonder what LE is doing about it at this point.

How well could Fontelle have known a man that she hadn't seen in 60 years, since she was a child. Alot of human behavioral development occurs much later in life. I wonder if there was any truth in what the daughters were posting about their father. It is entirely possible that he was just as they described and that Fontelle didn't have time to get to know him. They were both most likely on their best behavior with each other, as most people do when they first meet someone.

I also wonder about Bob's relationship with the Barber. Why would an old man give away so much money? Wouldn't she be upset when she stopped getting his handouts? It seems there is so much more to this part of his story. It's kind of creepy.

 

[eyes4crime]

Was your father also the trustee of your mother's irrevocable trust, as is supposidly the case with Mr Harrod?

My mother didn't have an irrevocable trust in her name only, she and my dad had one together. When mom died, my dad's name was on it.

I didn't realize that mom and dad each had their own trust in the Harrod family!

 

[Fairy1]

My mother didn't have an irrevocable trust in her name only, she and my dad had one together. When mom died, my dad's name was on it.

I didn't realize that mom and dad each had their own trust in the Harrod family!

Well, this is a good point. I was under the impression it was a family trust - set up by both Bob and his deceased wife - over which he had control until his death. That would have its own complications as far as how he was spending money goes. But wasn't it the mother's WILL the daughters were looking for the night before Bob went missing? That's something altogether different.

 

[eyes4crime]

Well, this is a good point. I was under the impression it was a family trust - set up by both Bob and his deceased wife - over which he had control until his death. That would have its own complications as far as how he was spending money goes. But wasn't it the mother's WILL the daughters were looking for the night before Bob went missing? That's something altogether different.

My mom and dad weren't wealthy, however, they wanted to protect what was accumulated during their lifetime. A will goes into the court system, and out of it, court and lawyer fees are extracted. Also, it can take a long time. My mom and dad had a living trust (they were both living when it was made). When my mom passed, dad became the executor of the trust. If dad would have married, he may or may not have added his new wife to the trust. Actually, that was none of our business.

One of the purposes of the trust was when they both passed, there wouldn't be greed, fighting, or painful memories dividing the family and precious possessions wouldn't be lost. If equity had to be divided with one more person, so be it - the cost of happiness is infinite.

I'm not sure what the Harrod family has, but to be sure, the daughters have made themselves look greedy, selfish, and 100% focused on themselves and not on their dad's happiness. Maybe the new wife entered their lives demanding money and all posessions - that would be another story. mho

 

[cloudajo]

Just speculation as I don’t know how these documents were written up, but perhaps Bob was acting within his rights as the sole Trustee of the family trust, and wasn’t obligated to provide anything to the daughters (e.g. copies of their mother’s will, copy of the trust, etc.). (See next post.) He knew it and told them so that Sunday. And this was the trigger for the events that followed: According to Fontelle, Bob said his daughters became upset when he told them he planned to include his new wife in the estate.

January 27, 2007
Property Information: R.H., G.H. (Trustees), Harrod (Family Trust) (ref internet)

March 2008
G.H. passed away

April 1, 2008
“Harrod-Safekeeping Will” filed in Probate Court (G.H., Decedent)

May 2009?
Orange County Social Services conducted an investigation of suspected elder financial abuse several months before Bob went missing. Family was told that Bob did not want to pursue the issue

June 29, 2009
Bob and Fontelle got married

July 2009?
Orange County Social Services contacted again by Bob’s family regarding suspected elder financial abuse

July 26, 2009
His daughter, Roberta, said her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate. "It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."
Fontelle last spoke to Bob by phone while she was in MO. According to Fontelle, Bob said his daughters became upset when he told them he planned to include his new wife in the estate

July 27, 2009
Bob went missing

July 29, 2009
In response to being contacted by family before Bob went missing, an investigator from OC Social Services showed up at Bob’s house to conduct the second investigation into suspected elder financial abuse (hearsay/IS)

August 7, 2009
“Conservatorship of Estate Only” filed by P.B. and R.B. (Title: Harrod – Conservatorship (E)

August 8, 2009
“The home has to be maintained as a part of OUR parents' family trust. All our Dad's attorney confirmed is that Dad had NOT amended his half of the trust to include his new wife of less than a month.” (hearsay/IS)

August 28, 2009
“Harrod-Trust” - Trust Petition Filed by P.B. and R.B.

 

[cloudajo]

Safekeeping Will and Trust

Safekeeping Will
Alternatively, and more securely, your original Will may be deposited at the Probate Registry. This has several advantages, the most important being that your Will is guaranteed to be held securely. Since your Will is recorded, no attempt can be made to administer your estate by bypassing your Will.
http://www.lifetime-wills.com/about-wills3.html

What is a trustee?
The trustee is the person (or people) who holds legal title to the property that is in the trust. The trustee’s job is to manage the property in the trust for the benefit of the beneficiaries in the way the settlor has asked.

What if the trustee won't tell me what is going on?
The trustee must keep the beneficiaries informed about the trust and its administration. If you make a reasonable request for information, the trustee must give you a report about the assets, liabilities, receipts and disbursements of the trust, what the trustee has done, money paid to the trustee, any agents hired by the trustee, their relationship to the trustee and any pay they received, and information about your interest, including a copy of the trust.

If you waived (gave up) your right to information, you can withdraw your waiver in writing and get the most recent report and all future reports. If it has been 60 days or more since your written request for a report, or 6 months since your oral request, and the trustee hasn't given you a report, you can file a petition to ask the Court to make the trustee file a report. Even if the trust itself says the trustee does not have to give you a report, the Court can make the trustee give you a report if you show that the trustee may have violated his/her duties.

If the trust is revocable, or if you waived in writing your right to a report, or if the trustee and the beneficiary are the same person, the trustee does not have to provide information unless the trust document says s/he must.

What if the acting trustee dies or resigns or can no longer be the trustee?
If a trustee dies or resigns, is conserved or is declared “incompetent” by a court, or files for bankruptcy, then the trustee can no longer act as trustee and must be replaced.

Some trusts have 2 or more co-trustees and the trust may say that the remaining co-trustee will be the sole trustee, or may say how a new trustee will be appointed.

http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/prop/TransferringTrustProperty.htm#z1

 

[cloudajo]

Daughters and neighbor apparently had keys to Bob’s house. Did SIL JM have a key with him on Monday when he went to Bob’s house?

Just wondering as the articles mention the housekeeper sitting on the front stoop, and the front door was locked. When SIL arrived back, if they were right there at the front door, why didn’t they go in through the front door? Why did the SIL go in through the back door?

If he did have a key, I’m wondering if perhaps he didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day. He arrived back to the house, and there she was on the front stoop. He couldn’t let her in through the front door, as he needed to take care of or move something in that area (e.g., maybe dropped glasses inside the door). So instead he brought her in through the back.

If he didn’t have a key, I suppose it’s possible the back door wasn’t locked, and that’s why he went in through the back. I don’t think we know whether the back door was locked or not.

Thoughts?

=============
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready.Michaels told police that he worked at the home, then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

Michaels said he returned to the house after 3 p.m. to find the Harrods' longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.
Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html?pic=11

 

[ohiogirl]

I wish we had a statement from the housekeeper as to the condition of the house.
Also, could be very likely that Bob left with the SIL and something happened after they left the house. Just guesses.
I just don't really think that he left on his own, never to return. LE may know more than they are saying, but can't prove anything.
A puzzle.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Whooo - I never said all 'late-in-life' relationships were for the right reason! There are plenty of vultures in this world, children, family, and mates in all walks of life.

My point in sharing the story about my dad is that he became involved with a woman who had many of the same personal characteristics as our mom had. If the woman he was with after our mom's death was 180 degrees different from what we had seen all our lives, you can bet all of us kids would have been disturbed. What's really interesting, is that her family was wondering the same things about our dad and his family. We were all doing background checks on one another while dad and friend were trusting their instincts and having a great time.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that if any of us children had approached our dad about his irrevocable trust, he would have been offended and outraged! There wasn't a one of us who wanted our dad to see us as greedy and selfish, not after what he'd been through in taking care of mom. No money would be worth it!!!

Please - certainly not a reason to leave the thread just because I feel it's a homicide and you don't. There isn't a thread on WS that doesn't have a ton of unanswered questions. Sorry if I upset you. Please don't leave!

Oh no, eyes4crime, I need to apologize to you. I wasn't upset by you. It's this whole thing with Bob!! This case is just SO frustrating. I've been following it almost from the start. He lives about 1.2 miles from my parents and is just a little younger than them. He really got to my heart. I drive by his house every Saturday. My parents live in a senior complex and I look at all the faces of the men his age just hoping that he might be living there (incognito) and I might be the one to find him. In my heart I can't see his daughters murdering him, yet there are those that believe he has been murdered. If anyone, I think it may have been the barber and her husband but then I wonder how can they get his $$ if he is gone. Just so many unanswered questions and that's why I stopped coming in here before. If I stop again it would have nothing to do with your post :hug: Only for my heartbreak for Bob!

 

[ShowMe]

Oh no, eyes4crime, I need to apologize to you. I wasn't upset by you. It's this whole thing with Bob!! This case is just SO frustrating. I've been following it almost from the start. He lives about 1.2 miles from my parents and is just a little younger than them. He really got to my heart. I drive by his house every Saturday. My parents live in a senior complex and I look at all the faces of the men his age just hoping that he might be living there (incognito) and I might be the one to find him. In my heart I can't see his daughters murdering him, yet there are those that believe he has been murdered. If anyone, I think it may have been the barber and her husband but then I wonder how can they get his $$ if he is gone. Just so many unanswered questions and that's why I stopped coming in here before. If I stop again it would have nothing to do with your post :hug: Only for my heartbreak for Bob!

Don't stop posting, please.
I've been following this story and am discouraged too, especially because it seems that most of the people who have been posting here are somehow related to Fontelle. Postings have had an obvious slant that way and indicate interest in Bob and his deceased wife's estate. With too much focus on Fontelle's indeed sad story and entitlement to the estates of Bob and his wife, there has been little focus on all the other suspicious characters mentioned. The police should have by now already interviewed anybody in Bob's "circle" including close friends, neighbors, his housekeeper and his barber. I'm so sad to see that Bob has not returned to shed some light on all of this suspicion. IMHO

 

[Angelo]

Daughters and neighbor apparently had keys to Bob’s house. Did SIL JM have a key with him on Monday when he went to Bob’s house?

Just wondering as the articles mention the housekeeper sitting on the front stoop, and the front door was locked. When SIL arrived back, if they were right there at the front door, why didn’t they go in through the front door? Why did the SIL go in through the back door?

If he did have a key, I’m wondering if perhaps he didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day. He arrived back to the house, and there she was on the front stoop. He couldn’t let her in through the front door, as he needed to take care of or move something in that area (e.g., maybe dropped glasses inside the door). So instead he brought her in through the back.

If he didn’t have a key, I suppose it’s possible the back door wasn’t locked, and that’s why he went in through the back. I don’t think we know whether the back door was locked or not.

Thoughts?

=============
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready.Michaels told police that he worked at the home, then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

Michaels said he returned to the house after 3 p.m. to find the Harrods' longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.
Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html?pic=11

Good catch Cloudajo.

 

[Angelo]

I wish we had a statement from the housekeeper as to the condition of the house.
Also, could be very likely that Bob left with the SIL and something happened after they left the house. Just guesses.
I just don't really think that he left on his own, never to return. LE may know more than they are saying, but can't prove anything.
A puzzle.

I believe the police have an idea of what happened but may not have the evidence to prove it in a court of law.

 

[suzyq211]

It disheartens me when people accuse those who have 'different" views of this case of having connections to Fontelle. Give us some credit. The postings on the other site, the circumstantial evidence might lead those with a clear mind to come to the conclusion that a family member could be responsible. Thats what this forum is all about right? To speculate?

 

[Angelo]

Daughters and neighbor apparently had keys to Bob’s house. Did SIL JM have a key with him on Monday when he went to Bob’s house?

Just wondering as the articles mention the housekeeper sitting on the front stoop, and the front door was locked. When SIL arrived back, if they were right there at the front door, why didn’t they go in through the front door? Why did the SIL go in through the back door?

If he did have a key, I’m wondering if perhaps he didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day. He arrived back to the house, and there she was on the front stoop. He couldn’t let her in through the front door, as he needed to take care of or move something in that area (e.g., maybe dropped glasses inside the door). So instead he brought her in through the back.

If he didn’t have a key, I suppose it’s possible the back door wasn’t locked, and that’s why he went in through the back. I don’t think we know whether the back door was locked or not.

Thoughts?

=============
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready.Michaels told police that he worked at the home, then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

Michaels said he returned to the house after 3 p.m. to find the Harrods' longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.
Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html?pic=11

I wonder what the SIL's reaction was when he found the housekeeper waiting on the front porch.

The SIL claims he was doing work around the house and left to get supplies at the hardware store. If that is true, then surely the SIL would have been aware that the housekeeper was coming that day.

Hopefully the housekeeper told the police if the SIL was surprised by her presence at the house or was he expecting her.