CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[Kat]

I have no problem saying that IMO the SIL is the one that is responsible for Mr. Harrods disappearence.

The three daughters charged over to their father's house the night before to discuss finances. It got "heated." The next day Mr. Harrod disappears.

The family does not search for him, instead the three daughters begin to post disrespectful things about their father on a forum. They trash their father, the barber woman and finally Fontelle.

The information about the barber woman comes from those three women. I don't put much stock in what they have to say. I believe much of what they posted is misinformation.

I wonder if the daughters and SIL were ever polygraphed.

If this article has been posted I apologize.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-232302-bob-police.html

Updated: Feb. 4, 2010 7:47 a.m.

...Bob Harrod's newlywed wife, Fontelle Harrod, said late last year that police were giving polygraph tests to family members and those close to Bob Harrod...

...Loomis confirmed that police were using a lie-detector test, but would not disclose publicly the results or to whom the tests would be administered.

Loomis mentioned above is a Police Spokeswoman.

Looks like they did LDT's to me. We just don't know who got them and what their results were JMHO.

 

[Cubby]

Here's where this looks almost too obvious to determine a possible poi.

Why would the 3 daughters to go public regarding heated discussions about their mothers will and finances? It's almost too 'let me hand you my/our motive'. I would think they would attempt to make family financial matters more private rather than less private.

Fontelle benefits for the free house... ok... but in relation to his estate if she had someone do away with him, why wouldn't she have it set up his remains were found within a few months? And IIRC or understood correctly the agreement between Robert and his first wife did not allow for a future spouse of their to receive their assets upon either of their deaths.

I know couples who lost a spouse after 40-50 or more years. In happy marriages sometimes those couples do remarry quickly for the companionship.

I can really see him getting tired of his daughters telling him what to do. . Perhaps he had a special vacation spot or place he once dreamed of visiting or living and basically said 'screw this' I want to live in peace, no one is going to tell me what to do, and they can bicker over it after I am gone. Thinking along the lines of if he stayed with his new bride his 'battle' with his children over his finances and indepence ongoing battle he didn't wish to deal with in his final years of life. He knew Fontelle would be fine, she had been fine the first time they were 'torn apart'.

I'm just thinking perhaps he did have money stashed away no one knew about and he went. IF that is possible I think the discussion and sleuthing should be done in where we might find Bob if he left willingly.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

Here's where this looks almost too obvious to determine a possible poi.

Why would the 3 daughters to go public regarding heated discussions about their mothers will and finances? It's almost too 'let me hand you my/our motive'. I would think they would attempt to make family financial matters more private rather than less private.

Fontelle benefits for the free house... ok... but in relation to his estate if she had someone do away with him, why wouldn't she have it set up his remains were found within a few months? And IIRC or understood correctly the agreement between Robert and his first wife did not allow for a future spouse of their to receive their assets upon either of their deaths.

I know couples who lost a spouse after 40-50 or more years. In happy marriages sometimes those couples do remarry quickly for the companionship.

I can really see him getting tired of his daughters telling him what to do. . Perhaps he had a special vacation spot or place he once dreamed of visiting or living and basically said 'screw this' I want to live in peace, no one is going to tell me what to do, and they can bicker over it after I am gone. Thinking along the lines of if he stayed with his new bride his 'battle' with his children over his finances and indepence ongoing battle he didn't wish to deal with in his final years of life. He knew Fontelle would be fine, she had been fine the first time they were 'torn apart'.

I'm just thinking perhaps he did have money stashed away no one knew about and he went. IF that is possible I think the discussion and sleuthing should be done in where we might find Bob if he left willingly.

JMO

I think it's more likely his fam did something to prevent Bob from putting his new wife on his accounts than it is for Bob to runaway and without a car too? His daughters were the ones that were unhappy not Bob.I think the argument was really about Bob's new wife moving into the house and the fact Bob was putting her on his accounts. The whole needing papers and needing it now is silly. All they had to do was contact whatever attorney handled the daughters trust and get the papers. And Fontelle was how many states away when this all went down? I don't see how she could have had anything to do with his disappearance.

IMO, the daughters had the motive, means and opportunity to get rid of their dad and take over his estate.

 

[SuziQ]

I'm bumping this up. The daughters are now control of an estate that's worth much more than the house. Bob's estate alone (seperate from the deceased wife) IIRC, was worth more than a Mil. Worth more than the house Fontelle is living in.

Interesting blog post on June 1 (which was Bob’s 82nd birthday) from a man who lived across from Bob in Placentia for several years and was his friend. He last spoke to Bob on July 19, 2009. That was the day before he left California to move to Virginia. He gives interesting insight. He says he was never contacted by LE about Bob or his state of mind.

More at link: http://paulkestes.blogspot.com/2010/06/today-would-have-been-bob-harrods.html

Also, it appears from court records that in June, the 2 daughters were appointed trustees and conservators of the estate.
https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv2/Home.do

 

[Kat]

Money has a way of making things very complicated. I'm not certain at this time money was the "motive".

It certainly has caused a lot of bickering and behavior by the children of this man that could be seen in a very unfavorable light--at best, I agree.

But money may not have been the primary motive if foul play did come to Bob.

Resentment, anger with having to deal with a difficult old man (at least perceived to be difficult by the person who is responsible for the foul play if that is what happened).

Motives aren't always so clear cut IMHO. We see primary motives and we even see secondary motives but they usually aren't cut and dried and there is usually a psychological swamp of reasons that come into play, that individually wouldn't push someone to commit foul play against another human being.

We see motives in most simple crimes. IMHO this wasn't a simple crime.

Also I like Cubby's idea to run the possibility he left with money he did hide into the ground. KWIM?

FWIW, when I read this thread today, it was the first time I had heard of this missing man. I read it without any prior knowledge and had the luxury of seeing the members who have spent time watching this case unfold develop their opinions.

However, I came with no opinions and here is what I think:

1. Someone close to this man murdered him and hid his body.

2. Cubby's idea that he left of his own will.

We don't have to look for the motive, that's overthinking it IMHO. We have to look first at who had the means to do it?

Thank you Cubby for additional food for thought.

 

[Cubby]

Immediate thought on who had the means.
Theories only... not pointing fingers.
1- SIL. Goes to the store and has both his receipts and the cleaning lady waiting at the house BOTH are there to 'witness' Bob being missing... Kind of convenient imo.

Other thoughts that come to mind.

Who was managing Bobs assets at the time the daughters were being more persistant? It could be that whomever was managing the assets was hiding something and did not want the daughters to become aware money was squandered or stolen by the manager of the funds. I ask, because unfortunatly my sons paternal grandmother became victim to this in her 80's. She was ripped off for about 450,000 herself and 7 or so seniors were victims to the scam. We can hope the daughters would have become aware of such a possible scenario and have checked, and not blindly trusted whomever is handling those assets.

The two year anniversary is coming up for Bobs disappearance.

I wonder if we can collectively come up with some reasonable questions for the detective handling the missing persons case and possibly generate a little media interest.

It was actually the closeness to the anniversay date being in July which caught my eye to take a look at the thread. And hope some new eyes might generate new interest and idea's.

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped]
Why would the 3 daughters to go public regarding heated discussions about their mothers will and finances? It's almost too 'let me hand you my/our motive'. I would think they would attempt to make family financial matters more private rather than less private. JMO

They posted a lot of information over several months. IMO, they did so because they:
1) Had a captive audience on the forum who were lapping up their every word - they got caught up in the attention and sympathy
2) Were trying to throw suspicion elsewhere
3) Had no idea their posts would ever be scrutinized
4) Thought they were smarter than everyone else and got careless

The moderator on the other forum posted that the forum was deleted at the family's request (Nov 09). I noted this was also shortly before the PPD was going to request polygraph(s).

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped]
The two year anniversary is coming up for Bobs disappearance.

I wonder if we can collectively come up with some reasonable questions for the detective handling the missing persons case and possibly generate a little media interest.

It was actually the closeness to the anniversay date being in July which caught my eye to take a look at the thread. And hope some new eyes might generate new interest and idea's.

FYI, it's the 1 year anniversary coming up. He went missing on July 27, 2009.

Good idea - this story needs some attention.

Two reporters who have done stories:
LA Times reporter: [email protected]
OC Register reporter: [email protected]

Placentia Police Department
401 E. Chapman Avenue, Placentia, CA 92870, (714) 993-8164

James L. Anderson, Chief of Police
(714) 993-8154
[email protected]
http://www.placentiapd.org/pd/?section=2&type=Normal&id=174&crumbs1=2&crumbs2=122

These 2 have been mentioned in articles
Detective Corinne Loomis (civilian investigator) at (714) 993‐8194
Sergeant Scott Millsap (patrol sergeant) at (714) 993‐8168

 

[cloudajo]

It’s good to consider all possibilities, but after reading everything and watching the videos, IMO, Bob did not leave on his own. Bob and Fontelle were just two people in love who wanted to be together.

[snipped]
On that last day we talked, Bob told me about Fontelle and his love for her. I had never seen him so happy. He had started going back to the doctor to get himself together, again. He had neglected his health for years taking care of Georgia and then Sassy. He told me he wanted twenty good years with Fontelle before he died. He was eighty at the time.

http://paulkestes.blogspot.com/2010/06/today-would-have-been-bob-harrods.html

This video with Bob came out after Bob and Fontelle got married.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/videobeta/?watchId=787b9661-cce5-40f4-ae8a-ec7b54c23643

This was the day after Bob went missing, filmed in Bob’s house with one of his daughters.
http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=ac85bbd7-919c-45df-8bff-de9407f59354&src=front

At the beginning of last year, Bob decided he needed some time away from his daughters and he asked them to leave him alone for six months, Estes said. It was during those months that Fontelle called. Fontelle and Bob spoke nearly every day after the first call. They talked about the past -- about fishing and hay rides and drives through the town.

[snipped]
They spent the days talking endlessly -- they went for drives and sometimes out for lunch. They visited Bob's friends. They were married at the local courthouse.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

For the most part, Fontelle's days are quiet. Her eyes are bad, so she can't drive. One of Bob's former neighbors is helping her, bringing her food or taking her shopping. There are days when the desire to return to her own family makes her ache, but she resists leaving. "I want to find out who did this to him," she says. "I want whatever is left of him to take home."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

 

[Angelo]

I think it's more likely his fam did something to prevent Bob from putting his new wife on his accounts than it is for Bob to runaway and without a car too? His daughters were the ones that were unhappy not Bob.I think the argument was really about Bob's new wife moving into the house and the fact Bob was putting her on his accounts. The whole needing papers and needing it now is silly. All they had to do was contact whatever attorney handled the daughters trust and get the papers. And Fontelle was how many states away when this all went down? I don't see how she could have had anything to do with his disappearance.

IMO, the daughters had the motive, means and opportunity to get rid of their dad and take over his estate.

Exactly!

The daughters had to admit to being at the house the night before because Mr. Harrod had already told Fontelle about it in their nightly phone call.

 

[Fairy1]

Exactly!

The daughters had to admit to being at the house the night before because Mr. Harrod had already told Fontelle about it in their nightly phone call.

They didn't have to - it would have been her word against theirs. And we know nothing happened to him that night because he spoke to Fontelle the next morning.

I wish LE would release more info about this case! I think those of us who saw the daughter's posts when they were still up cling to what they said because we've heard so little else about the case.

Back in the beginning, I felt there may have been a chance Bob just threw up his hands and took off. We know he and the daughters weren't getting along. But we don't know the true dynamic between Bob and Fontelle. Maybe she was pressuring him for something as well. Maybe he felt he'd made a mistake. If he just wanted to distance himself from his family, I don't believe he would have made the effort to marry Fontelle - or he would have taken her with him.

I've said it before, I hope LE has had a forensic accountant take a look at Bob's financial and legal records.

 

[suzyq211]

<snipped>
I've said it before, I hope LE has had a forensic accountant take a look at Bob's financial and legal records.

Me too! i also wish we knew in what states the daughters' finances were at the time. Heavy debt or problems out of the norm? Enough to make someone do something out of anger and resentment at the prospect of losing part of an inheritance?

 

[dreamweaver]

I am glad this thread has more discussion now.

Just to be clear from the outset, IMO,
I do not think the daughters had anything to do with
their dad's disappearance.
Again, IMO.

Having said that, I do think Robert Harrod is no longer living.
PPD thought at the beginning of his disappearance that
perhaps he just 'took off.'
But, there has been no activity on any accounts. None.

Just to recap:
From my recollection,
the daughters had set up a time Sunday to meet with their dad.
Their mom had been deceased for over a year and he had yet to
give them copies of their mom's seperate family trust information.
This had nothing to do with her will. Or his will.
Again, from memory, there were heated words. It seemed to me at the time that Robert did not like his daughters 'bothering' him, again, for the document.
And they did not like waiting and waiting for him to get paperwork to them.
Also from memory, the daughters were thrilled when he was so happy after being in touch with Fontelle and then marrying her.
They were not happy about the woman he had given/loaned money to.

I also got the sense that the daughters felt their dad had almost always been 'frugal' or more than frugal with money over the years.
They were not happy with their mom's care and living situation in her last illness.
Especially compared to the woman that their dad loaned out money to....

Someone posted earlier about families and things not being so wonderful growing up....not a Leave it to Beaver household.
I think that is probably true in this case.

But, to get to the real point...
what did happen that day?

 

[dreamweaver]

Timeline for July 27, 2009
This is from my memory of last years posts, etc.

7/27/09: morning:
sil arrives to help Robert with repairs, etc.
neighbor sees Robert.
Robert has several phone calls.
One phone call is with Fontelle.

PPD has all phone records and will not release any details. So, it is
unknown who Robert talked with and if he called anyone.

11:30am - This is the first time stated as the time Robert was last seen.

afternoon:
sil made several trips to and from the house, picking up repair items, etc.
Unknown if anyone else had contact with Robert in the afternoon.
late afternoon:
sil goes out to pick up something.
4pm: approximately
when he arrives back, housekeeper is on the steps, front door is locked.
sil goes to the back door and goes into the house.
sil lets housekeeper in and she goes to work cleaning the house.
sil assumes Robert has just gone on a walk.

early evening:
housekeeper leaves.
6pm?
sil leaves for home.
no Robert.
8pm:
Daughters are worried. No one answers the
phone at the house.
They call PPD and ask that they do a welfare check
at their dad's house.
PPD report no one is at the house.
Daughters call Fontelle.
12am: Fontelle calls PPD.
Daughters call.

Please feel free to add to the timeline....

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you so much dreamweaver. The details tend to get a bit foggy after so long!

Your timeline post got me to thinking. Seems to me if the daughters had left Bob the night before on truly bad terms the SIL would not have shown up the next day to help Bob with the repairs and whatever else, don't you think?

The thing that bothers me about the SIL's timeline is that, while the Home Depot receipt confirms when he was THERE, nothing seems to verify what time he arrived at Bob's that morning and where he went and what he did in between.

I hope LE has looked at all of that - it would certainly be the obvious thing to do, with SIL having been the last person to see Bob alive.

 

[Fairy1]

<snipped>
I've said it before, I hope LE has had a forensic accountant take a look at Bob's financial and legal records.

Me too! i also wish we knew in what states the daughters' finances were at the time. Heavy debt or problems out of the norm? Enough to make someone do something out of anger and resentment at the prospect of losing part of an inheritance?

Surely LE has looked at all of this too.

My initial thinking with the forensic accountant was to determine whether Bob had moved money that no one knew about in the year or so prior to going missing. Like maybe he had a secret stash that did enable him to leave and live comfortably on his own.

IDK. Seems if any of the likely suspects had harmed him, he would have turned up by now. He's just....gone.

 

[SuziQ]

Money has a way of making things very complicated. I'm not certain at this time money was the "motive".

It certainly has caused a lot of bickering and behavior by the children of this man that could be seen in a very unfavorable light--at best, I agree.

But money may not have been the primary motive if foul play did come to Bob.

Resentment, anger with having to deal with a difficult old man (at least perceived to be difficult by the person who is responsible for the foul play if that is what happened).

Motives aren't always so clear cut IMHO. We see primary motives and we even see secondary motives but they usually aren't cut and dried and there is usually a psychological swamp of reasons that come into play, that individually wouldn't push someone to commit foul play against another human being.

We see motives in most simple crimes. IMHO this wasn't a simple crime.

Also I like Cubby's idea to run the possibility he left with money he did hide into the ground. KWIM?

FWIW, when I read this thread today, it was the first time I had heard of this missing man. I read it without any prior knowledge and had the luxury of seeing the members who have spent time watching this case unfold develop their opinions.

However, I came with no opinions and here is what I think:

1. Someone close to this man murdered him and hid his body.

2. Cubby's idea that he left of his own will.

We don't have to look for the motive, that's overthinking it IMHO. We have to look first at who had the means to do it?

Thank you Cubby for additional food for thought.

Kat, the money was part of it IMO. The daughters wasted no time filing for control of their fathers estate. In fact, it was so quick there was no reason to think at that time that Bob couldn't have still walked through the door. The judge turned them down.

Cubby, outside of the daughters trust, Bob was in complete control of his finances.

 

[dreamweaver]

Thank you so much dreamweaver. The details tend to get a bit foggy after so long!

Your timeline post got me to thinking. Seems to me if the daughters had left Bob the night before on truly bad terms the SIL would not have shown up the next day to help Bob with the repairs and whatever else, don't you think?

The thing that bothers me about the SIL's timeline is that, while the Home Depot receipt confirms when he was THERE, nothing seems to verify what time he arrived at Bob's that morning and where he went and what he did in between.

I hope LE has looked at all of that - it would certainly be the obvious thing to do, with SIL having been the last person to see Bob alive.

I think LE has looked into everything. SIL's description of what he did and what Robert did that day.
I think if the daughters had a complete break with their father, the sil would not show up on Monday to help his father in law out.

We, the public, do not know what time sil arrived, what he did when.
If I remember correctly, it was stated that Fontelle knew sil was there when she and Robert talked that morning.
Time unknown.

 

[dreamweaver]

Surely LE has looked at all of this too.

My initial thinking with the forensic accountant was to determine whether Bob had moved money that no one knew about in the year or so prior to going missing. Like maybe he had a secret stash that did enable him to leave and live comfortably on his own.

IDK. Seems if any of the likely suspects had harmed him, he would have turned up by now. He's just....gone.

I have often thought the same thing, a forensic accounting of his monies.
That would be helpful to LE, I would think.
I know it was stated that Robert had several bank accounts.

The thing that always stopped me from believing that Robert left on his own, to get away from a hurried marriage and what he considered to be demanding children, is that
he left his car behind.
There is no evidence that a taxi came to pick him up or an old friend, nothing.

 

[dreamweaver]

Kat, the money was part of it IMO. The daughters wasted no time filing for control of their fathers estate. In fact, it was so quick there was no reason to think at that time that Bob couldn't have still walked through the door. The judge turned them down.

Cubby, outside of the daughters trust, Bob was in complete control of his finances.

Well, the love of money is the root of all evil.
But,
as I think back, the daughters said that they filed for conservatorship of their father's finances because they knew Fontelle had not been put on any bank accounts, that they wanted to make sure the all household payments would be taken care of.
Their dad was missing and no one knew what happened. I think the initial thought was to help out Fontelle.
Fontelle was to be added to Robert's accounts upon her return.

Somehow, in this case, I don't think Robert's disappearance has to do with money.
It seems like it at times; what with Robert's lady friend getting so much money, and the daughters wanting the portion of their mother's trust that went to them and Fontelle marrying a man of means...
but, I just don't think so.


I will say at first I felt it was the lady friend. But she has an alibi and has been cleared by LE.

To me, it feels like a spur of the moment thing.
It doesn't seem like a carefully planned event.

I look at that day and I imagine Robert busy planning what all needs to be done before Fontelle arrives back from MO.
He made lists of what accounts she needed to be added to, what things needed to be fixed or cleaned or taken care of around the house.
He had a housekeeper in to make sure the house is spic n span.
He had his sil there to do the repairs, run to the store, do the errands,
help him out.
He had several phone calls. He talked with Fontelle.
I see him happy, excited about his future.
I see him making sure things are all done to welcome Fontelle home.
I see him making sure that she is part of his life, financially and legally.

What I cannot see is what the heck happened between
11:30am and 4pm.
Was it as LE has reported that the sil said, that
he ran errands, picked up supples, fixed things at the house
and came back before 4pm to find Robert gone.
Then who came by? Who would harm Robert?
As far as I can determine, all alibis have been checked out.

When I think of it,
in order for Robert to go missing and not have been found 11 months later, then he is not in that neighborhood anywhere.

Either somthing happened to him in his own home and he was transported to a hiding place
or
something happened to him while he took a walk and he was transported to a hiding place.