CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[zwiebel]

So just to review, to make sure I am caught up-

1.) We were running through CA Exiles posts and insight into his friendship with Bob.
2.) We were pondering who had keys to Carnation and why the back door needed to be left open by JeM if Bob was there when he left for one of his trips.
3.) We were discussing who fed Fontelle the phantom SUV story.
4.) We have just started delving into Georgia's sad death, and any end of life care issues that were raised by Bob's children after she died.

I for one am hoping that they didnt just sit back pointing fingers, but helped their father during what was undoubtedly a stressful and sad time. I am heartened that Georgia may have been cared for by the VNA-do you know for sure, shana, or is that a guess?

TIA.

I intended to answer this earlier but distracted myself thinking about dog owners/walkers and how they get to know their surroundings really well. Have been meandering around California (sadly, online only). Some beautiful scenery there.
Anyway, your point number 2 believe09 - I would be interested in hearing your opinion on the missing wallet/keys:
Taken by Bob because he went out and thought he was coming back?
Taken by his abductor to give the impression Bob went out willingly?
Taken by his abductor for the cash and means to return later ( as per JuM's fears)?
Another reason I haven't thought of?

Thanks for organizing all the points by the way, we seemed to be rushing towards something and then somehow it went off track!

 

[believe09]

No, I've not been to the O.C. Courthouse. That was primarily to be a follow-up visit to the one funded by paypal contributions which apparently did not pan-out.

Yes, I am saying that the Trust is not filed and certainly not for public consumption. The named beneficiaries have legal rights to the documents; in fact, it is the duty of the Trustee to provide them in a timely manner. (See above post from me re Benes' Bill of Rights and referencing the so-called 'poison pen letter').

Simply stated:

Wills = public
Trusts = private

~jmo~

Except when they are included in a civil action where the documents are public I suspect.

 

[believe09]

I wonder if they were on a Honey Do List and without a Honey, they might not have been done at all! <g>

~jmo~

BBM-I wonder if they were on a Honey Do list as well!!

 

[believe09]

Hi Cubby! Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant at the O.C. website for Probate Court docs as you had copied from in your post to which I had replied. I have not been to the O.C. Courthouse - there are two other counties between mine and O.C. and one of them is the rather large and sprawling L.A. County. I do have a business interest in O.C. but a trip there is not a hop & a skip for me.

Although I've not reviewed them lately, iirc the docs uploaded here appear to be third-party copies rather than official court copies. Perhaps whoever provided them has access to more. It would be nice - and fair - to have the complete picture (e.g. Responses to Objections, etc).

~jmo~

Really? Which documents dont appear in the court files that have been posted here at WS? Is that what you mean by third party-that they are unfiled?

TIA, shana.

The file is available to anyone via FOIA-Anyone who has a particular interest in any document can have at it, but I think we have covered that ground before.

 

[believe09]

I intended to answer this earlier but distracted myself thinking about dog owners/walkers and how they get to know their surroundings really well. Have been meandering around California (sadly, online only). Some beautiful scenery there.
Anyway, your point number 2 believe09 - I would be interested in hearing your opinion on the missing wallet/keys:
Taken by Bob because he went out and thought he was coming back?
Taken by his abductor to give the impression Bob went out willingly?
Taken by his abductor for the cash and means to return later ( as per JuM's fears)?
Another reason I haven't thought of?

Thanks for organizing all the points by the way, we seemed to be rushing towards something and then somehow it went off track!

I think that unless the keys and/or the wallet (or other personal items) were found inside or (perhaps) hidden outside the house, it seems likely that they were some how transported with Bob.

LOL, I am trying to cover all of the bases here!!

I suppose that if the person who likely disposed of Bob had his/her/their own set of keys, there wouldnt have been a need to use Bob's to re enter the house.

The leaving the back door unlocked thing is nagging at me.

It feels like we are trying to grab hold of ghosts sometimes.

 

[zwiebel]

I think that unless the keys and/or the wallet (or other personal items) were found inside or (perhaps) hidden outside the house, it seems likely that they were some how transported with Bob.

LOL, I am trying to cover all of the bases here!!

I suppose that if the person who likely disposed of Bob had his/her/their own set of keys, there wouldnt have been a need to use Bob's to re enter the house.

The leaving the back door unlocked thing is nagging at me.

It feels like we are trying to grab hold of ghosts sometimes.

Yes. I would like to know if it was the kind of lock that could only be worked with a key, or could be worked with a lever from inside.

 

[zwiebel]

I don't suppose there's any chance a description of this wallet and keys were circulated were they?
A wallet's just the sort of thing a person might find and not hand in but would if they discovered it might be connected to a probable homicide.
Never mind. Sure it will be up on the facebook page soon. After all, they've only had three years......

 

[zwiebel]

More on keys:
JeM went out leaving back door unlocked/or he had a back door key.
CL did not have a key as she sat on step waiting and JeM let her in.
JeM left house before CL?
CL locked up by shutting doors behind her? But she had no key, so only way for her to lock up house is if back door had a lever lock inside and then she could leave by front door (presuming that could not be opened once closed behind her).
The house must have been locked because wasn't a welfare check made that evening and no-one could get in?
Next day then, JuM must have had keys or borrowed a set from neighbours.

There we are. Clear as the river Thames on a rainy London day.

 

[believe09]

More on keys:
JeM went out leaving back door unlocked/or he had a back door key.
CL did not have a key as she sat on step waiting and JeM let her in.
JeM left house before CL?
CL locked up by shutting doors behind her? But she had no key, so only way for her to lock up house is if back door had a lever lock inside and then she could leave by front door (presuming that could not be opened once closed behind her).
The house must have been locked because wasn't a welfare check made that evening and no-one could get in?
Next day then, JuM must have had keys or borrowed a set from neighbours.

There we are. Clear as the river Thames on a rainy London day.

exactly. Someone had keys unless these were self locking doors.

What a great idea about sending out some kind of communication with a wallet description!!! And keys!! Unless there were two sets of keys to the house-one with trusted neighbor and one with Bob....hmmm...

 

[zwiebel]

exactly. Someone had keys unless these were self locking doors.

What a great idea about sending out some kind of communication with a wallet description!!! And keys!! Unless there were two sets of keys to the house-one with trusted neighbor and one with Bob....hmmm...

I tend to think there were at least 2 sets and likely more. Bob's own set might be easily identifiable if (like many grandfathers) he had keyring gifts from grandkids' vacations/school trips.

 

[zwiebel]

exactly. Someone had keys unless these were self locking doors.

What a great idea about sending out some kind of communication with a wallet description!!! And keys!! Unless there were two sets of keys to the house-one with trusted neighbor and one with Bob....hmmm...

If they were self-locking JeM must have had keys to let himself and the CL in. This is the sort of detail CA Exile would know the answer to (others would too of course, but I hold out zero help they'll tell us!)

 

[Oriah]

Not to derail the current thought process- but I had a thought about the key situation. Doesn't it seem unlikely that Mr. Harrod would be in the habit of leaving a house key for his housekeeper in the (access to public) mailbox, but also hiding house keys elsewhere? That makes no sense. I mean-that doesn't really protect ones' home, you know? And if you were in the habit of leaving back up keys somewhere...well...just how many keys are floating around? Do we have a # on that? Maybe keys were being duplicated from multiple sources.
Just a thought, anyway.

 

[Cubby]

Bringing the disappeared video transcript over.

Originally posted by Cloudajo:

Looks like Bob's story will be on Disappeared (Season 5). A clip of the show is posted on their website (watch video at link below). Agnes the housekeeper is interviewed and appears in clip. I did my best to transcribe the clip below.

===

Disappeared Season 5 - Sign of Trouble (Bob Harrod)

Clip (3:23) &#8211; Posted 4/26/12

(transcribed below)

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob&#8217;s house that day. Agnes, Bob&#8217;s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob&#8217;s house on Tuesday, but this week she&#8217;d arranged to come on Monday.

Agnes: And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he&#8217;s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. So I went to the house, knocked on the door, nobody answered, I looked in the mailbox because that&#8217;s where he normally leaves me the key, the key wasn&#8217;t there, so I sat on the bench in front of the house.

Narrator: The situation made her very uneasy. Nothing like this had ever happened before.

Agnes: Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he&#8217;s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, &#8220;Are you supposed to be here today?&#8221; I said, &#8220;Yeah, Bob knew that I&#8217;m coming today.&#8221;

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn&#8217;t tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

Agnes: I was really concerned at that point, I was afraid to go upstairs, I didn&#8217;t want to find anything. So I asked Jeff if he would go upstairs and see if Bob was there.

Narrator: Agnes waited at the bottom of the stairs while Jeff went up to have a look around.

Agnes: I thought he&#8217;s just going to look into the room, it takes a minute to go up, look into the room, and just see if Bob was there or not. But he actually ended up spending a couple of minutes there, so I thought maybe, you know, he find something, he find him there or something. So I yelled up, I said, &#8220;Is he there, is he ok?&#8221; And he said, &#8216;No, he&#8217;s not here.&#8221; And then he came back.

Narrator: Uncertain about what to do next, Agnes began cleaning, while Jeff resumed his repairs. As she worked her way around the house, she noticed something disturbing.

Agnes: When I went upstairs, I saw that in his bedroom, the bed was unmade, and never in the 10 years I worked for them, that happened before. It was just so out of character for him to not to make the bed, I just thought it was very strange.

Narrator: Deeply troubled, Agnes finished up and left, shortly after Jeff, who had also completed his work.

Agnes: I was there all together about 3 hours. I can honestly tell you that during the whole time I was there, I was very concerned. I kept thinking, where is he at?

Video Clip: http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sign-of-trouble.html


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[Cubby]

Not to derail the current thought process- but I had a thought about the key situation. Doesn't it seem unlikely that Mr. Harrod would be in the habit of leaving a house key for his housekeeper in the (access to public) mailbox, but also hiding house keys elsewhere? That makes no sense. I mean-that doesn't really protect ones' home, you know? And if you were in the habit of leaving back up keys somewhere...well...just how many keys are floating around? Do we have a # on that? Maybe keys were being duplicated from multiple sources.
Just a thought, anyway.

I've always suspected JuM and JeM had a set of keys when they lived next door to Bob and Georgia. My guess is at some point there was some kind of argument or situation in which Georgia and Bob decided to ask them to return the keys and that JuM and JeM had a spare set made before returning the set originally given to them by Bob and Georgia. I could be wrong, but considering they lived next door to Bob and Georgia at one point it wouldn't be unreasonable to think they had a set of keys at one time.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks so much for the link Cubby but it's not working for me.....aaahhh.
I can get to the home page but can't find the future programmes. Any and all help greatly appreciated.

 

[zwiebel]

So Bob didn't have time to put the key in the mailbox, or make his bed. And JeM was away from the house before 12. He has a receipt for 3.04. If he doesn't have one for before 12, he doesn't have an alibi?

ETA: In the light of this, that 3.04 receipt is just a complete red herring.

 

[zwiebel]

Not to derail the current thought process- but I had a thought about the key situation. Doesn't it seem unlikely that Mr. Harrod would be in the habit of leaving a house key for his housekeeper in the (access to public) mailbox, but also hiding house keys elsewhere? That makes no sense. I mean-that doesn't really protect ones' home, you know? And if you were in the habit of leaving back up keys somewhere...well...just how many keys are floating around? Do we have a # on that? Maybe keys were being duplicated from multiple sources.
Just a thought, anyway.

Oh gosh, I'm in trouble. But mine's in a really safe place, not the mailbox! Nobody would ever guess where except believe09............
Think everyone would like to know the number of keys and who held them, but information is not forthcoming. Perhaps we should check the facebook page?

 

[zwiebel]

In fact, Bob didn't even get time to tell JeM the CL was coming. And that's a real shame. That's truly heartbreaking. Just a few seconds to say, 'someone else will be here soon' could have changed everything.

 

[suzyq211]

Thanks so much for the link Cubby but it's not working for me.....aaahhh.
I can get to the home page but can't find the future programmes. Any and all help greatly appreciated.

Zwiebel, the preview was actually removed after a week or two...who knows why. Thats why the link doesnt work. I cant wait to see this show!!

 

[suzyq211]

In fact, Bob didn't even get time to tell JeM the CL was coming. And that's a real shame. That's truly heartbreaking. Just a few seconds to say, 'someone else will be here soon' could have changed everything.

Yeah, that makes me sick to my stomach, actually.