CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[GrainneDhu]

GPS or OnStar is something that never crossed my mind, Oriah, after all of this time. THANK YOU! We know from several cases that the companies keep those records and will turn them over to LE upon request.

How about a laptop or computer activity? There has to be a record from Mr Harrods ISP of activity from those days. We know at least that JuM was posting on her community forum the day she did the interview with the media.

Are we sure that Bob had a working computer or was online? As I recall, he was having a tough time using a cell phone, so he may not have been online.

JuM strikes me as the sort of person to have a smartphone. I don't see her as the sort of person who wants to be out of touch with her various online networks if at all possible.

 

[believe09]

Are we sure that Bob had a working computer or was online? As I recall, he was having a tough time using a cell phone, so he may not have been online.

JuM strikes me as the sort of person to have a smartphone. I don't see her as the sort of person who wants to be out of touch with her various online networks if at all possible.

BBM-I cant remember the source of the statement regarding his cell phone use. In any case, my 81 year old grandmother finds email infinitely easier than cell phone.

 

[Cubby]

Premeditation can be the difference between 2-5 years in prison and the death penalty (in states with capital punishment).

People living in mountainous areas learn not to rely on their cell phones because cell phone coverage can be really spotty in the mountains. You can have 5 bars in one spot, go around a corner of the mountain a couple hundred feet along and have no reception at all. People who live in mountain and/or desert areas learn to carry survival supplies, including water, in their vehicles at all times. Just the same way as us midwesterners always carry a shovel and at least a couple blankets in the car in the winter. Most people carry a lot more.

FWIW, I still consider the possibility an argument erupted between Bob and JeM the morning of Bob's disappearance. I tend to believe RB's letter stating Bob called JeM in a tirade (or something similiar) and believe it is possible either Bob or JeM, brought up the previous days argument which escalated to JeM losing his temper, hurting Bob, and the repairs he actually did perform where not those he planned, but repairs necessary to cover up evidence of a physical altercation. (With JuM doing further clean up the following day.)

JeM may have planned to do certain repairs, but it's quite possible those were the ones he did not complete because he had to cover up a physical altercation in Bob's home.

 

[zwiebel]

I couldn't agree more about the strong possibility of an argument, Cubby. RB kindly put in writing details of the especially bad feeling betweeb PB, JeM and Bob.

Some rare people get calmer and calmer the more heated an argument gets. And then can forgive and hold no grudges, instantly. I always wondered if JeM was one of these because to me, falling out with someone (being 'blamed' as RB put it), having a heated meeting, then going to their house to carry out minor/major repairs - well, you'd have to be the calm, forgiving type who bore no grudges.

Many other men, even if they didn't hold a grudge after, still wouldn't do the work. They'd find it demeaning. Or they'd want to avoid another argument starting in case they lost their temper.

Question is, which type was JeM? Perhaps there is a clue out there in one of his wife's many postings about whether JeM was a kindly, gentle soul or a man with a temper?

 

[believe09]

I couldn't agree more about the strong possibility of an argument, Cubby. RB kindly put in writing details of the especially bad feeling betweeb PB, JeM and Bob.

Some rare people get calmer and calmer the more heated an argument gets. And then can forgive and hold no grudges, instantly. I always wondered if JeM was one of these because to me, falling out with someone (being 'blamed' as RB put it), having a heated meeting, then going to their house to carry out minor/major repairs - well, you'd have to be the calm, forgiving type who bore no grudges.

Many other men, even if they didn't hold a grudge after, still wouldn't do the work. They'd find it demeaning. Or they'd want to avoid another argument starting in case they lost their temper.

Question is, which type was JeM? Perhaps there is a clue out there in one of his wife's many postings about whether JeM was a kindly, gentle soul or a man with a temper?

Not to promote a stereotype, but I wonder what his relationship with his father is like?

I want to think that anything to do with Bob's disappearance was an accident. I am having a hard time holding that line, but no matter.

I dont believe that any of the events following it are an accident fwiw.

 

[zwiebel]

Are we sure that Bob had a working computer or was online? As I recall, he was having a tough time using a cell phone, so he may not have been online.

JuM strikes me as the sort of person to have a smartphone. I don't see her as the sort of person who wants to be out of touch with her various online networks if at all possible.

I think we have confirmation from both FH and a daughter that Bob did not use email. However, there was a computer in the house, which JuM stated in that infamous list, belonged to her son AH.

It has always been an obvious question to me - why on earth would AH keep his computer at his grandad's house, if Bob could not use it? Maybe to carry out online financial transactions on Bob's behalf, is my first thought?

 

[Seajay]

I live in So Cal and I always carry two sleeping bags, two lawn chairs, a blanket and bottled water in my vehicles. I also usually never go anywhere without an ice chest with iced tea in it.

My parents live in the mountains and when I know the weather is going to be wet, snowy, I usually take the 4-wheel drive vehicle with the aformentioned items in it. I have to pass through the desert to get there so I make sure I have plenty of liquids and some snacks for those trips.

However, I never thought about carrying a shovel. We have one of those fold up Army/Navy shovels.

As far as the argument is concerned. If JeM was really ticked off at the family meeting the night before, I don't see him getting over and being thrilled to be doing anything for Bob out of the kindness of his heart the next day. I would think he'd still be burned up from the night before.

I like the idea that the repairs he did were to "fix" what got broken related to Bob's disappearance.

JeM still looks good for this crime. Sorry.

 

[Seajay]

My 81 year old mother uses email, but only has a cell phone in case of emergencies and doesn't really know how to use it. She does her banking on the computer and plays games. That's about it.

 

[Cubby]

It appears at one time JeM had a different last name other than his current last name. That might be indicative of his relationship with his father.

http://www.pattnicol.com/MonroviaHighSchool_California_1969_StrayCats.html

Maybe he took out all of his animosity towards his father on Bob?
Maybe he hasn't cleared up the time line and allowed his wife and sister in laws to run rampant in their imagination of what happened, because he is too ashamed to stand up and be a man with honest information about the exact times he was in and out and exactly where he was.

Could any of you imagine finding out your husband killed your father? Or your brother in law killed your father? It's almost unimaginable, but it does happen. Some days I think Bob's CA family is kicking and screaming to not learn the truth, because in Bob's case the truth for them just might be harder to endure than the not knowing.......

 

[Cubby]

I live in So Cal and I always carry two sleeping bags, two lawn chairs, a blanket and bottled water in my vehicles. I also usually never go anywhere without an ice chest with iced tea in it.

My parents live in the mountains and when I know the weather is going to be wet, snowy, I usually take the 4-wheel drive vehicle with the aformentioned items in it. I have to pass through the desert to get there so I make sure I have plenty of liquids and some snacks for those trips.

However, I never thought about carrying a shovel. We have one of those fold up Army/Navy shovels.

As far as the argument is concerned. If JeM was really ticked off at the family meeting the night before, I don't see him getting over and being thrilled to be doing anything for Bob out of the kindness of his heart the next day. I would think he'd still be burned up from the night before.

I like the idea that the repairs he did were to "fix" what got broken related to Bob's disappearance.

JeM still looks good for this crime. Sorry.

BBM, maybe he was burned up and was going to put his foot down with regards to how his wife felt Bob was treating, or not treating her and the family. IIRC, one of her online community posts indicated he pushed them away and then wanted to suddenly be a family again when he married Fontelle.

Maybe JeM lost his temper during what he believed was standing up for his wife? I could see how a second argument could offshoot so soon after the heated family meeting.

 

[believe09]

Spend anytime on that community forum, and the person running the show in that household is blatantly obvious. imo. That may be a defense right there.

 

[zwiebel]

Not to promote a stereotype, but I wonder what his relationship with his father is like?

I want to think that anything to do with Bob's disappearance was an accident. I am having a hard time holding that line, but no matter.

I dont believe that any of the events following it are an accident fwiw.

I wonder about his relationship with his own son too. Both JeM and AH appear to have disowned their paternal surnames in turn. You'd think that would be a little hurtful, for a father to see a son walk away from the family name.

Given the convenient timing and results of the disappearance, I would find an accident scenario really hard to accept.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

It appears at one time JeM had a different last name other than his current last name. That might be indicative of his relationship with his father.

http://www.pattnicol.com/MonroviaHighSchool_California_1969_StrayCats.html

Maybe he took out all of his animosity towards his father on Bob?
Maybe he hasn't cleared up the time line and allowed his wife and sister in laws to run rampant in their imagination of what happened, because he is too ashamed to stand up and be a man with honest information about the exact times he was in and out and exactly where he was.

Could any of you imagine finding out your husband killed your father? Or your brother in law killed your father? It's almost unimaginable, but it does happen. Some days I think Bob's CA family is kicking and screaming to not learn the truth, because in Bob's case the truth for them just might be harder to endure than the not knowing.......

I know what it was like to find out my uncle murdered my aunt, and to see the person who loved him most go into complete denial. It was shocking - I didn't even know people could do that to that extent.

I wouldn't even call it denial, it was more like an alternative reality they just moved into and completely believed, for as long as they possibly could. It was only time, a long time, that brought about a kind of acceptance of the truth.

When I look through cases on WS now though, especially those involving family homicides, I can see that is not an uncommon reaction. I think it would be almost impossible to force someone to see reality who has gone into that state.

As time passes in this case though, I believe that reality may be setting in for someone a little more each day. The question is, will they do what must be done when they reach the end of that journey?

 

[Oriah]

How about XM Satellite Radio-is that trackable? Does anyone know??

Here is some interesting information:

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/your-ride-satellite-radio-cga.htm

Sorry to be so late in catching up, so if someone has already answered this I apologize.

It's my understanding that satellite radio is traceable, because it bounces off of the most 'local' satellite to the GPS position of the device itself. So- some are factory installed in a vehicle and a permanent part of the vehicle, while others are external and can be installed/ removed.
They all use the same base of technology though...which is GPS.
That's why you can get local traffic and weather updates on, say Sirius radio, and why OnStar can pinpoint the location of an accident.
They also all have memories, just like our computers.

I can't imagine how there wouldn't be a possibility of tracking that. All of the providers of these various sources track anyway. :waitasec:

Huh. I am no techie for sure, but I wonder what could be done about that at this point.

 

[believe09]

I have some time today-maybe I can dig around a little.

Anyone come upon the recently unsealed secret agreement??

 

[Oriah]

I have some time today too, will try and find the super secret agreement. Race ya!

 

[believe09]

Vrooommmmm, Vrooooommmmm.....

 

[zwiebel]

Hey! I haven't even found my ignition keys yet!

 

[zwiebel]

Okay, I'm not competing with these two. I'll try the satellite radio question instead. Here's a link to spy enthusiasts, talking about if it will be possible for the gov to track radio one day in the future. So I presume it's not happening yet:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread26969/pg1

I have also consulted three people who should know, but they are in a beer hall in Germany and it's nearly Christmas, so I'm not taking their word for it. Will try and find someone more reliable.....

 

[Oriah]

Okay, I'm not competing with these two. I'll try the satellite radio question instead. Here's a link to spy enthusiasts, talking about if it will be possible for the gov to track radio one day in the future. So I presume it's not happening yet:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread26969/pg1

I have also consulted three people who should know, but they are in a beer hall in Germany and it's nearly Christmas, so I'm not taking their word for it. Will try and find someone more reliable.....

Still working on agreement. Keys in ignition and I'm driving a standard, so clutch occasionally employed today on uphills.

zwiebel, the beer hall in Germany nearing Christmas cracked me up. Ein frohes weihnachtsfest!

Anyway, the idea behind being able to track a satellite radio- or any other device as such- is not so much about the government regulating (or invading or whatever) it's that the companies that have records and contracts with the service providers have, well- records and contracts, lol.
So companies keep records for their own usage. Sort of like keeping track of your accounting at a privately owned business? Helps to figure out what is productive and what is not.

Sometimes LE can ask companies for their records based on that. It's private info, but the owner of the info if privatized can choose to share- or not. Make sense?