CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[believe09]

BBM



This makes me wonder if JuM doesn't feel able to communicate with Placentia Police herself, directly. Why would that be?

Early on after Bob disappeared, I believe one of her fellow posters sympathised with her over her husband being 'hassled' by police, and offered to provide her with the name of a low-cost lawyer.

I don't see how JuM and JeM can claim to really want Bob to be found if they have closed down all lines of communication with the police department dealing with Bob's case.

It actually went one step further, iirc. The poster indicated that JeM was a suspect.

That seems pretty consistent with what we are seeing years later.

 

[believe09]

Believe....duh! on me. I should learn to engage brain before mouth!

After you noted that JuM's illnesses I pretty much copied from her laments may be fictional or overexagerated, I realized they cannot be true. If they were, she would be in pain management and that does not mean vicodin.

My roomie has osteoarthritis and fibromylgia and is prescribed morphine.
My ex had back problems and was prescribed several strong narcotics.

Vicodin is largely tylenol...which is really hard on the kidneys to boot.

The bone marrow thing is pure grandiosity imo. ( the high pole of bipolar)

PRECAUTIONS

General

Special Risk Patients – As with any narcotic analgesic agent, hydrocodone bitartrate and acetaminophen tablets should be used with caution in elderly or debilitated patients and those with severe impairment of hepatic or renal function, hypothyroidism, Addison's disease, prostatic hypertrophy or urethral stricture. The usual precautions should be observed and the possibility of respiratory depression should be kept in mind.

http://local-dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=7742d54e-89f7-4911-92d6-ca883aa8269a

Isnt that interesting, TDW. I guess that will throw the Stage IV nonsense pretty much out the window as well. I wonder how Vicodin mixes with BiPolar meds?

So the advancement of the kidney disease is suspect here or the meds are. Maybe the fellow posters on ROTW are perfectly aware of this and they dont believe her one whit but are just being kind. Good for them.

 

[believe09]

Wow. I just found this old article about the arrest of someone over a person missing for 30 years. And look at the reason LE gave:

'But Torrance Police have said his arrest is based on that explanation changing during the past 30 years.'

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/05/michael_clark_carol_jeanne_lub.php

The article also mentioned that he changed his name. The follow-up article below details the grief he has caused his own son through not only his actions, but his years of deceit afterwards. Even his victim's family were fooled for years, but LE never were.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_22527210/killer-michael-lubahn-clark-changes-story-again-torrance

This gives me great hope.

 

[cloudajo]

It actually went one step further, iirc. The poster indicated that JeM was a suspect.

That seems pretty consistent with what we are seeing years later.

Here is it for reference. I x'd out the screenname of the other poster. That post was shortly before the one Julie posted about the linens.

August 4, 2009

[xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 09:53 AM

I didn't realize law enforcement was looking at your husband and I'm sure the added stress is unbearable. If things escalate, e-mail me at my screen name @gmail.com and I'll look for agencies that provide free or low-cost legal aid. It's unfortunate that you are dealing with harassment as well as worrying about your Father.

Julie
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:25 AM

My dad lives in Placentia which is no where near Van Nuys, I believe is near LAX he lives between John Wayne Airport and Ontario Airport. I appreciate the lead. I did learn something that when he went missing, before I went dth to get the house ready, linens changed for he and his wife; I started to call all the local hospitals. Then I was directed to call the Coroner's office which I did and they had only 1 John Doe and he was Hispanic. They did however have me e-mail me photos and all his information to them and they would send out a "blast fax" which is a huge distribution list to all the hospitals and other institutions.

 

[cloudajo]

BBM



This makes me wonder if JuM doesn't feel able to communicate with Placentia Police herself, directly. Why would that be?

Early on after Bob disappeared, I believe one of her fellow posters sympathised with her over her husband being 'hassled' by police, and offered to provide her with the name of a low-cost lawyer.

I don't see how JuM and JeM can claim to really want Bob to be found if they have closed down all lines of communication with the police department dealing with Bob's case.

Well supposedly JeM "canvassed" OC and JuM told posters who offered help to "look out" for Bob, so that's something right?

August 11, 2009

Thanks Dave, Jeff has been canvasing OC and posting fliers, I believe the PD has been also doing this as well. I will let you know if we need assistance. The best thing to do is to look out for him, memorize his face; if you believe you have possibly sighted him, call the PD ASAP and do not allow him out of your sight.

 

[cloudajo]

Two posts from JuM on two separate forums. See text in blue. In the first, sounds like she was quite happy about the family growing and in the second, well, not so much.

August 1, 2009 (ROTW)

Thank you, I do remember the Angel Michael.

We still have had no news. To comment that he might have gotten cold feet is so wrong. He was elated for his wife to return; we were and still are hoping he will return or be returned safe. Keep the prayers going, please.

Now I know why I was gaining weight, perhaps God was preparing me to be over healthy as I have dropped 5 pounds in a couple of days.

I am so torn with my feelings, do I feel angry about the possibility of going with someone or just walking off? Or should I prepare for the worse case scenario? This is so surreal I just do not know how to feel. I just want my dad back as we were so looking forward to have our family growing and having a wonderful step-mom and step-sisters, brothers, grandchildren... I have always have dreamed of having a large family.

I need to get out of the house, but I fear I will miss a call from dad.

PRAY LIKE YOU HAVE EVER PRAYED BEFORE - I still am mourning the loss of my mom 16 months ago. I welcome friends, my house is a mess, my yard is drying up, but HUGS are always welcome.

Thank you and I will try to keep you posted if we hear from our dad or have an update of any kind.

All I know is I am glad to be away from the Media, at home with Jeff and my girls.

August 13, 2009 (another forum)

Our father pushed us away around Christmas, he wanted time "to get in touch" with his feelings. It hurt all of us, we tried to respect his wishes but I would stop in now and then when I was down the hill and he would be happy to see us. It was a weird situation that we did not understand. We did however warn him of the POI taking advantage of him and he brushed it off. This is heartbreaking, the distance he created was so selfish. We found out that he purchased lavish gifts for POI and he could not believe she did not like the diamond bracelet so he had to go back and get her something else for her. He did not even acknowledge his own grandson and great grandchildren. In a nutshell that is what happened until we came down to meet F he wanted us to be an instant family again. The difficult situation of just losing our mother and then D pushing us away was insane. As if our emotions can be shut down and then turned back on in a snap.

 

[TDW59]

QUOTE: I've taken Vicodin once following dental surgery and it made me hallucinate.Quote

WOW!! That is extremely unusual. I hope you have it listed that you are allergic to it!

Believe....right. IF she did even really donate a kidney or has kidney problems, no conscientous dr would ever prescribe Vicodin. There are many pain killers that do not have acetominaphin (tylenol).
It wouldn't particularly react with any of the bipolar meds I know of (unless you took overdoses)....but it is a highly abused & black-marketed drug. In some people it gives them energy and a mild euphoria.
I had meant to run the tv interview for my nurse roomie to view and ask her if she looked high.
(I won't take it because it makes me very queasy...a common side effect, and doesn't even knock out a headache.)

I am not surprised that she displayed avoidant behavior and asked her sister to call the police. (Fear & stress) + bipolar = 100x (fear & stress).

She keeps herself safely cushioned away and while I found references to "Mom and Dad" and "Mom"...none of "Dad". It's a guarded and pretend world uth.

Have not yet found postings from before Bob's disappearance.

As I lay down last night, I asked myself "What is really going on here?"
AH immediately came to mind. He changed his last name to Harrod and IIRC changed his middle name to Robert. Was that done before or after Bob's disappearance?
Because I am wondering about identity theft. That financial deposition is pretty sketchy and he immediately thought about a criminal lawyer.
As Bob was preparing to amend his estate and accounts, could he have run into financial irregularities?
From where I sit, that would be a stronger motive even than adding Fontelle into his finances. And it wouldn't necessarily preclude the actions of the other family members, could even promote them, IF they even knew or found out.
I wonder WHEN AH's computer loaned to Bob was reclaimed??????

MOO

 

[believe09]

QUOTE: I've taken Vicodin once following dental surgery and it made me hallucinate.Quote

WOW!! That is extremely unusual. I hope you have it listed that you are allergic to it!

Believe....right. IF she did even really donate a kidney or has kidney problems, no conscientous dr would ever prescribe Vicodin. There are many pain killers that do not have acetominaphin (tylenol).
It wouldn't particularly react with any of the bipolar meds I know of (unless you took overdoses)....but it is a highly abused & black-marketed drug. In some people it gives them energy and a mild euphoria.
I had meant to run the tv interview for my nurse roomie to view and ask her if she looked high.
(I won't take it because it makes me very queasy...a common side effect, and doesn't even knock out a headache.)

I am not surprised that she displayed avoidant behavior and asked her sister to call the police. (Fear & stress) + bipolar = 100x (fear & stress).

She keeps herself safely cushioned away and while I found references to "Mom and Dad" and "Mom"...none of "Dad". It's a guarded and pretend world uth.

Have not yet found postings from before Bob's disappearance.

As I lay down last night, I asked myself "What is really going on here?"
AH immediately came to mind. He changed his last name to Harrod and IIRC changed his middle name to Robert. Was that done before or after Bob's disappearance?
Because I am wondering about identity theft. That financial deposition is pretty sketchy and he immediately thought about a criminal lawyer.
As Bob was preparing to amend his estate and accounts, could he have run into financial irregularities?
From where I sit, that would be a stronger motive even than adding Fontelle into his finances. And it wouldn't necessarily preclude the actions of the other family members, could even promote them, IF they even knew or found out.
I wonder WHEN AH's computer loaned to Bob was reclaimed??????

MOO

So much to your post, TDW-

There was independent media regarding the kidney donation so I feel comfortable believing it happened. But on the other hand, given the long winding stories of mental and physical illness that have been presented, I am curious as to how she made it through the screening process. Looking at her based upon the snap shot she has provided of herself, the doctors who agreed to her donation should be ashamed of themselves and perhaps they are liable for her ongoing issues.

I think your ideas of AH are spot on-I cant argue with them on any level. His name change was done prior to Bob's disappearance...IIRC it was at a time prior to his bankruptcy. Maybe it was after....it all blends together for me after a while.

Bob was an incredibly savvy investor and businessman-you are absolutely right that he may have discovered financial irregularities, perhaps even a series of them over a few years, that might have led to a confrontation. A confrontation that might have even happened at the heated family meeting.

The only postings I have seen regarding Bob's disappearance are presented as nightmares and dreams.

 

[believe09]

Two posts from JuM on two separate forums. See text in blue. In the first, sounds like she was quite happy about the family growing and in the second, well, not so much.

August 1, 2009 (ROTW)

Thank you, I do remember the Angel Michael.

We still have had no news. To comment that he might have gotten cold feet is so wrong. He was elated for his wife to return; we were and still are hoping he will return or be returned safe. Keep the prayers going, please.

Now I know why I was gaining weight, perhaps God was preparing me to be over healthy as I have dropped 5 pounds in a couple of days.

I am so torn with my feelings, do I feel angry about the possibility of going with someone or just walking off? Or should I prepare for the worse case scenario? This is so surreal I just do not know how to feel. I just want my dad back as we were so looking forward to have our family growing and having a wonderful step-mom and step-sisters, brothers, grandchildren... I have always have dreamed of having a large family.

I need to get out of the house, but I fear I will miss a call from dad.

PRAY LIKE YOU HAVE EVER PRAYED BEFORE - I still am mourning the loss of my mom 16 months ago. I welcome friends, my house is a mess, my yard is drying up, but HUGS are always welcome.

Thank you and I will try to keep you posted if we hear from our dad or have an update of any kind.

All I know is I am glad to be away from the Media, at home with Jeff and my girls.

August 13, 2009 (another forum)

Our father pushed us away around Christmas, he wanted time "to get in touch" with his feelings. It hurt all of us, we tried to respect his wishes but I would stop in now and then when I was down the hill and he would be happy to see us. It was a weird situation that we did not understand. We did however warn him of the POI taking advantage of him and he brushed it off. This is heartbreaking, the distance he created was so selfish. We found out that he purchased lavish gifts for POI and he could not believe she did not like the diamond bracelet so he had to go back and get her something else for her. He did not even acknowledge his own grandson and great grandchildren. In a nutshell that is what happened until we came down to meet F he wanted us to be an instant family again. The difficult situation of just losing our mother and then D pushing us away was insane. As if our emotions can be shut down and then turned back on in a snap.

So which is it? *shrug*

 

[cloudajo]

The Grant/Trust Deeds for AH's property from June, 1999 show his name recorded as ARH. I think he was 20 years old at the time.

http://cr.ocgov.com/grantorgrantee/index.asp

 

[Cubby]

I'd like to know when the computer was removed, too. Was it during the visit dth when JuM changed the linens? Did LE ever get a look at it?

 

[Cubby]

I am not surprised that she displayed avoidant behavior and asked her sister to call the police. (Fear & stress) + bipolar = 100x (fear & stress).

Respectfully snipped. FWIW, I've always thought JuM asked her sister to call because she and her husband lawyered up and stopped cooperating with police shortly after Bob's disappearance.

Not that I disagree with the fear and stress, I just think not cooperating with LE plays a larger part in why she won't call LE herself.

 

[zwiebel]

Here is it for reference. I x'd out the screenname of the other poster. That post was shortly before the one Julie posted about the linens.

August 4, 2009

[xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 09:53 AM

I didn't realize law enforcement was looking at your husband and I'm sure the added stress is unbearable. If things escalate, e-mail me at my screen name @gmail.com and I'll look for agencies that provide free or low-cost legal aid. It's unfortunate that you are dealing with harassment as well as worrying about your Father.

Julie
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:25 AM

My dad lives in Placentia which is no where near Van Nuys, I believe is near LAX he lives between John Wayne Airport and Ontario Airport. I appreciate the lead. I did learn something that when he went missing, before I went dth to get the house ready, linens changed for he and his wife; I started to call all the local hospitals. Then I was directed to call the Coroner's office which I did and they had only 1 John Doe and he was Hispanic. They did however have me e-mail me photos and all his information to them and they would send out a "blast fax" which is a huge distribution list to all the hospitals and other institutions.

Was that JuM's actual answer to the friend's offer of help, or just a random post? Because I don't know if it's just me and my problems with maps/locations, but I can't make an awful lot of sense of what she's saying. She doesn't seem sure of where Placentia is, although she lived there for years?

'...linens changed for he and his wife..'

That bit still makes me gasp. I just guess Californians must be so much more laid back than English or German people. It would just about be okay if a new wife was due to arrive at the house for the first time.....but Mr and Mrs Harrod had been living together for a month. Mrs Harrod would have been well aware of the sheets on her own bed, and if she considered them suitable or not. I just cannot imagine the gall of any woman (relative or not) walking into another woman's house that she scarcely knew and deciding her bed sheets were not good enough.

This would cause enormous offence where I come from. Absolutely enormous.

 

[Cubby]

Have not yet found postings from before Bob's disappearance.

Respectfully snipped.

Whoops, forgot to reply to this before....

You had mentioned the 'Jan 1' join date at JuM's community forum. There was a software change and the entire forum moved to the current forum. IDK if the old community forum is still available.

Some WS'rs saved/copied posts of the daughters from one or two old forums which no longer exist. I don't know if there is one post here with all the posts which have since been removed..... It might be something those with copies of the post wish to do as time permits.

hth

 

[Cubby]

I think JuM was responding to another post about a John Doe or body found near Van Nuys and she was giving the other poster the general area of where Placentia is located in relation to Van Nuys.... That's why she also said 'thanks for the lead'.

hth

 

[Mels3kidz]

Respectfully snipped. FWIW, I've always thought JuM asked her sister to call because she and her husband lawyered up and stopped cooperating with police shortly after Bob's disappearance.

Not that I disagree with the fear and stress, I just think not cooperating with LE plays a larger part in why she won't call LE herself.

here is the post and link

http://forums.rimoftheworld.net/archive/index.php/t-2925.html

Jules04-11-2012, 09:19 AM
Sent it to my sister, she will forward it, I do not have their # or email addy at my fingertips. Quicker that way. Placentia Police Department, Det. Radomski, $50K reward for any information. Thx. If you want, please feel free to call them too for reward $, I am now sick to my stomach about this. I also am saddened for anyone else with missing family members.
*******

Mel

 

[Cubby]

I do not have their # or email addy at my fingertips.

Ok, almost 3 years after Bob goes missing, his daughter doesn't have LE's phone number and email address memorized? Clearly, a family member in frequent contact with police trying to cooperate fully and locate their missing family member wouldn't need to look up a phone number or address.

And considering all the links JuM has posted over the years about the weather, and all different types of phenomenon's of interest to her, I'd think if her fathers recovery was of any interest to her, she'd have the phone numbers and email addy's of those in LE working her fathers case memorized. After all she claimed to have written that mile long memorabilia list from memory. She expects us to believe she's incapable of memorizing a few telephone numbers and email addresses? riiiight.

 

[zwiebel]

I'd like to know when the computer was removed, too. Was it during the visit dth when JuM changed the linens? Did LE ever get a look at it?

51. All computer equipment in the house belongs to Andrew.

Memorabilia list, pg 37, April 14th, 2010, here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12875&d=1292952770

 

[zwiebel]

here is the post and link

http://forums.rimoftheworld.net/archive/index.php/t-2925.html

Jules04-11-2012, 09:19 AM
Sent it to my sister, she will forward it, I do not have their # or email addy at my fingertips. Quicker that way. Placentia Police Department, Det. Radomski, $50K reward for any information. Thx. If you want, please feel free to call them too for reward $, I am now sick to my stomach about this. I also am saddened for anyone else with missing family members.
*******

Mel

Really? I mean, missing father and Jum doesn't have the telephone number/email at her fingertips........okay. That must be just another thing about easygoing Californians that I don't understand.

Just in case Bob's daughter still has trouble locating the telephone number of the detective dealing with her father's case, here it is. All the way from Germany:

Anyone with any information is asked to call Detective Dave Radomski on: 714-993-8176.

Sorry about the red, but some of the things Bob's children say does make me a little impatient at times.

ETA: Didn't see Cubby's post above about this, that said it all. Snap, Cubby.

 

[TDW59]

HUGE thanks for all the help, info, guidance, expertise and experience so freely shared with me as I come into this so late and puzzle over making sense of things.

I do need to make some corrections. Vicodin (esp excessive usage) is far more dangerous to the liver as that is where it is broke down. (God Bless my smart and experienced nurse roomie). I am told that with a compromised kidney one cannot take aspirin, advil, aleve...nsaids.

I, too, wondered if Bob would have brought up missing monies at that family meeting....I was on pause about that as I was trying to figure out whether he would have said it in front of PB & RB or whether he would have notified and discussed it with JeM & JuM separately, as they are the parents of ARH. I can only imagine that if it was brought up in front of all in that family meeting, it would be explosive news and volatile producing both a primary and secondary motive. Adding Fontelle would be adding insult to injury, tertiary motive.

From there I can see them claiming that Bob had dementia and was incapable of handling his own affairs. (When really he just wasn't computer savvy). The daughters considers themselves victims of the theft.
ARH, JuM, JeM would worry about possible prosecution.

Now I see what would be "a perfect storm" of motive.


Jules04-11-2012, 09:19 AM
Sent it to my sister, she will forward it, I do not have their # or email addy at my fingertips. Quicker that way. Placentia Police Department, Det. Radomski, $50K reward for any information. Thx. If you want, please feel free to call them too for reward $, I am now sick to my stomach about this. I also am saddened for anyone else with missing family members.
*******

Thank you very much Mel!

Whatever the reason(s), the post speaks for itself. Has all that info at fingertips but the phone number &/or email troublesome to obtain???
unreal. Pass the Tums, I think this makes me sick too.

MOO