CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

I can say clearly that I think it was certainly a man who carried out the disappearing of Bob. And for that reason alone, I don't think drugs or poison are involved, because that's mainly womens' chosen method. Male poisoners are rarer and seem to have a particular sort of profile to me, though that's just my opinion and I don't know if there's anything out there to back it up.

 

[believe09]

I think the "heavy lifters" were male. For sure. Or, I think the "heavy lifter" was male. Either/or

 

[Cubby]

And oh boy, would I love to see everyone's cell phone records from the time the heated family meeting ended on Sunday until Bob was reported missing.....

I think AH is knee deep in this considering the hundreds of thousands of his grandfathers money/loans he defaulted on.....


Let's not forget we have a 9:30'ish am receipt for a stop made by JeM at a CVS. If he wasn't at Bob's home for the 10:00 am phone call, where was he? Is it possible he and AH met up between 9:30 and 10am the day of Bob's disappearance?

 

[zwiebel]

O/T

My heart goes out to everyone affected by the events this morning in Washington DC.

I've looked. This is horrible. I had close connections to English Navy Yards. I always thought they were the safest places in the world.

 

[zwiebel]

And oh boy, would I love to see everyone's cell phone records from the time the heated family meeting ended on Sunday until Bob was reported missing.....

I think AH is knee deep in this considering the hundreds of thousands of his grandfathers money/loans he defaulted on.....


Let's not forget we have a 9:30'ish am receipt for a stop made by JeM at a CVS. If he wasn't at Bob's home for the 10:00 am phone call, where was he? Is it possible he and AH met up between 9:30 and 10am the day of Bob's disappearance?

And wasn't there rumored to be an odd purchase of paper plates? With an explanation floating around that Bob didn't like washing up, or something? But the housekeeper was coming that day, and I think that would have been one of her tasks maybe?

I just keep thinking how easily paper plates can be disposed of. That's what they're meant for, after all.

 

[zwiebel]

I've looked. This is horrible. I had close connections to English Navy Yards. I always thought they were the safest places in the world.

Bumping my own post because it's exactly where people feel safest that they can be most vulnerable, and I should know that by now.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

BBM. My gut instinct tells me that no way that if Bob had met with foul play that that was an accident. The fact that his disappearance occurred the day after they had a *heated* family meeting wherein they discussed finances is too much of a coincidence for his disappearance to be a simple accident.

If it had been an accident, there'd be no need to cover it up. For instance, let's say Bob was brushing his teeth and JeM went into the bathroom to do repairs and accidentally knocked into Bob and Bob fell over and hit his head on the sink, and then passed out cold and suffered a fatal heart attack. There'd be no reason for JeM or anyone to cover that up. It would be easily explainable: an elderly man with poor coordination/balance had a fatal mishap in his bathroom. This likely happens frequently in senior homes.

No, Bob's disappearance and whatever led up to it which I suspect is foul play had to be intentional.

You may well be correct.

When I think accident in this context, I think of a scenario where someone came to Bob's house Monday morning to argue with him some more over the situation with the trust and Fontelle. Maybe with the express intention to bully Bob into agreeing. That person did not go to Bob's house intending to kill him but during the argument, tempers got out of control and the perp either punched Bob or pushed him. Again, not with the intention to kill but with the intention to intimidate him into agreeing to keep Fontelle off his accounts and (possibly) to distribute Georgia's half of the marital assets.

When Bob fell and either suffered a closed head injury (which causes little to no blood, even for significant fractures) or a heart attack, the perp panicked. They were guilty of causing Bob's death and they knew it. Their instinct was to cover it all up and that is exactly what they did. Perhaps with help from one or more other family members.

When people panic, they do stupid, stupid things. For instance, there's the case of the French Ambassador to the Soviet Union in the early 60s. Maurice DeJean was a hero of the French resistance and a friend of Charles de Gaulle. To make a complicated story short, DeJean had an affair with a KGB operative who then faked having her husband discover it. To cover up the affair, DeJean began passing along trade information to the Soviets. In other words, he began to commit treason, then still a capital crime in France in order to cover up his extramarital affair. When de Gaulle found out, he famously dismissed him with " Alors, Dejean, on baise maintenant?" (roughly, "So, DeJean, you enjoy sleeping with women?").

Maurice DeJean was not a stupid man nor was he philosophically at odds with the French government. If he had taken a calm moment to ask himself "is divorce worse than being sentenced to death for committing treason?" I have no doubt he would have come to the correct answer. But he panicked and the KGB made sure he was kept in a constant stage of panic.

A sad end for a war hero.

In the scenario as I theorise it, it would not qualify as capital murder (premeditation of murder) or even murder in the 2nd degree (an action taken on the spur of the moment to cause someone's death) but somewhere among the various manslaughter charges (taking an action that results in a death). Plus abuse of human remains.

If my theory is anywhere close to the truth, then the first person to the DA wins. Under such a scenario, the first person to talk would be given a much reduced sentence or possibly not even charged with a felony at all (prosecutors have a wide latitude in charging). Whoever else was involved will be in great legal danger, even if they think they did less than the first person to talk.

 

[Cubby]

And wasn't there rumored to be an odd purchase of paper plates? With an explanation floating around that Bob didn't like washing up, or something? But the housekeeper was coming that day, and I think that would have been one of her tasks maybe?

I just keep thinking how easily paper plates can be disposed of. That's what they're meant for, after all.

IDK what to think about the paper plates. What if SiL was meeting his son before going to Bob's? We don't even know if those paper plates made it into Bob's house.

 

[zwiebel]

Very well put Grainne. I have seen a case where people were afraid to come forward with info about a possible murder because of (highly unlikely, highly unprovable) minor drug charges. That was hard enough for me to understand, but I more recently saw a case where someone was afraid of what the neighbours would think! Seriously.

 

[zwiebel]

IDK what to think about the paper plates. What if SiL was meeting his son before going to Bob's? We don't even know if those paper plates made it into Bob's house.

Say a repair man/ construction worker was buying doughnuts (berliners over here), and they knew the homeowner wouldn't let them use the family china, or didn't like to ask.

In my personal and extensive experience on this issue, the doughnuts come in a bag and the repair man wouldn't have even thought of asking for a plate in the first place - let alone bought paper plates.

However, France is an exception. I have seen truck drivers in France drop down their little side tables, cover them with a tablecloth, layout cutley and have a perfect little banquet at the side of the highway.

But as about 40 per cent of OC residents have German Ancestry, I believe, the French connection doesn't come into it. I don't know what they do down in Ohio though.

 

[sreshowtime]

all this time frame STILL confuses me...I must be dense
the original link is broken , but
http://www.newsobserver.com/386/story/319946.html
snipped
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready. Michaels told police that he worked at the home then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

Bob was not there.

Michaels told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say. Michaels left about 6 p.m.
****

and then there is Here-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html


ALl I can think of is Someone else was in that house that day and I don't mean the CL....

ran across something else I had wondered, if F had been trying to reach him...
A couple of hours later, Fontelle called Bob as she always did, hoping to catch her new husband after dinner. He didn't answer. She called again 20 minutes later and again and again every 20 minutes until after midnight, when Julie Michaels called to say her father was missing. Fontelle called the Placentia Police Department to file a missing person's report.

 

[zwiebel]

I am going on about berliners because I have a bag downstairs. I had one for my breakfast, one for my lunch and now I'm bored. But I fed the carrots for my stew tonight to the neighbour's horses, because they looked hungry. I'm not making stew without carrots. It wouldn't be right.

 

[zwiebel]

all this time frame STILL confuses me...I must be dense
the original link is broken , but
http://www.newsobserver.com/386/story/319946.html
snipped
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready. Michaels told police that he worked at the home then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

Bob was not there.

Michaels told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say. Michaels left about 6 p.m.
****

and then there is Here-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html


ALl I can think of is Someone else was in that house that day and I don't mean the CL....

ran across something else I had wondered, if F had been trying to reach him...
A couple of hours later, Fontelle called Bob as she always did, hoping to catch her new husband after dinner. He didn't answer. She called again 20 minutes later and again and again every 20 minutes until after midnight, when Julie Michaels called to say her father was missing. Fontelle called the Placentia Police Department to file a missing person's report.

That broken link is from a story that's still fine somewhere, I'm sure. I'll find the original.

I've just discovered an old youtube link has disappeared though. I have a feeling it might not be forever.

 

[sreshowtime]

OH wonder what JeM had for lunch that Monday? Did someone happen to stop by...and bring something, offer to run get something , or hmm, maybe Bob tagged along to fetch something, ahem...seeing as how it was busy with all that work going on


or did he eat donuts all day.

 

[Cubby]

all this time frame STILL confuses me...I must be dense
the original link is broken , but
http://www.newsobserver.com/386/story/319946.html
snipped
About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready. Michaels told police that he worked at the home then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned.

Bob was not there.

Michaels told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say. Michaels left about 6 p.m.
****

and then there is Here-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html


ALl I can think of is Someone else was in that house that day and I don't mean the CL....

ran across something else I had wondered, if F had been trying to reach him...
A couple of hours later, Fontelle called Bob as she always did, hoping to catch her new husband after dinner. He didn't answer. She called again 20 minutes later and again and again every 20 minutes until after midnight, when Julie Michaels called to say her father was missing. Fontelle called the Placentia Police Department to file a missing person's report.

IMO, the information LE provided in the Disappeared episode explains the timeline discrepancy. Somewhere in the episode, Det. R makes it clear there was more than one trip out, that times given by SiL ( 9:30'ish and 3pm 'ish Det Loomis interview in episode stating 2 receipts) were verified and were accurate, but 'there was still time for something to happen'. So, while the times on the receipts were accurate, they were outside the window of 10am to noon.


The housekeeper stated she arrived around noon. I think what happened is the bits and pieces were early msm errors in stating the housekeeper arrived after the 3:02 receipt. When JeM arrived from ??? to find the housekeeper at noonish.

I had to watch the disappeared episode several times before I caught the fine details given by Det. Radomski and Det. Loomis.

 

[Cubby]

OH wonder what JeM had for lunch that Monday? Did someone happen to stop by...and bring something, offer to run get something , or hmm, maybe Bob tagged along to fetch something, ahem...seeing as how it was busy with all that work going on


or did he eat donuts all day.

Maybe his stomach was in a way he couldn't eat.

 

[sreshowtime]

thanks Cubby- maybe I can get my head around it for one & for all

(now if I can convince myself MrH was actually off the premises by 12 ish...I know, I know...bannish myself back downstairs)

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Very well put Grainne. I have seen a case where people were afraid to come forward with info about a possible murder because of (highly unlikely, highly unprovable) minor drug charges. That was hard enough for me to understand, but I more recently saw a case where someone was afraid of what the neighbours would think! Seriously.

I believe you.

I think that the lizard brain (hindbrain) has a powerful effect on the higher brain functions. The ability to take a step back and ask rationally "is it better to let a death go unreported or to keep the neighbours from talking?" is easy to answer. But getting to that state where one can ask the rational question is sometimes not easy at all.

 

[Cubby]

I just looked. The interview between Det. Loomis and the actor representing JeM is not in the Disappeared transcript. It was in that interview Det. Loomis confirmed there were only two receipts.

I will try and transcribe that interview when I can, but it likely won't be today. If anyone else has a copy of the episode and can transcribe sooner, please go for it! Otherwise I will get to it by end of day tomorrow.

 

[believe09]

And wasn't there rumored to be an odd purchase of paper plates? With an explanation floating around that Bob didn't like washing up, or something? But the housekeeper was coming that day, and I think that would have been one of her tasks maybe?

I just keep thinking how easily paper plates can be disposed of. That's what they're meant for, after all.

Oh my-you just reminded me of a post someone captured-it was written by RB. She mentions that they (sisters who were en masse at the house waiting for Fontelle) put the garbage out on 7/29/09, but she hastens to add that there was nothing big in the garbage can...words to that effect.

I have to dig that one up again.