CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[sreshowtime]

put the trash OUT?? oh...really

 

[zwiebel]

Without looking, I think it was "There were no large items (maybe objects) in the garbage".

They may not have called LE, checked the house on the night or checked with friends and neighbours, but at least they managed to check the garbage.....that had been left in the trash can, that is.

 

[zwiebel]

It has crossed my mind that the poster of that info could maybe be a vital witness; if there were no large items in the trash at Bob's home, and they are prepared to swear to it....what would happen if someone then told LE they HAD put large items in the trash? Construction waste, for example?

Would it be that person's word against another?

 

[zwiebel]

You know, when you try and search for broken links -or any links - these days, all you get is Bolo for Bob flyers popping up.

 

[believe09]

You know, when you try and search for broken links -or any links - these days, all you get is Bolo for Bob flyers popping up.

:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

Good.

 

[zwiebel]

In August 2009, completely unrelated to Bob's case, but maybe relevant, someone was posting about the weather on that alumni site. How it was 106 near Glendora, slated to get hotter and fires were breaking out everywhere.

They then list the first starting in Azusa Canyon, then La Canada Flintridge, then Pacific Palisades, then East of Hemet. I just mention it because I believe there had been connections in Bob's close circle to both Glendora and Azusa, so fires taking place there shortly after he disappeared could be of interest, I suppose.

I wish I knew if the cause of every fire is investigated, but I don't suppose they can be with the number that happen in CA most years. I suppose I could look up weather charts, to see when that area was hitting 106, to try and find out if was early or late August, when it happened. I wonder how the investigation stood in late August, compared to early August?

I tend to think pressure was really ramped up at the beginning of the month, but by the end it was easing off - or might have seemed to be at least, to anyone outside of the investigation team.

 

[zwiebel]

Do any locals have any info at all to contribute about Azusa? It's just the place seems to keep cropping up.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

It has crossed my mind that the poster of that info could maybe be a vital witness; if there were no large items in the trash at Bob's home, and they are prepared to swear to it....what would happen if someone then told LE they HAD put large items in the trash? Construction waste, for example?

Would it be that person's word against another?

Well, yes.

Landfill searches conducted within days of a crime are often unsuccessful because it isn't like they just tip the trash into a big pile and leave it. Most landfills are constantly being shaped and compacted with bulldozers, so the trash in them gets squished down and spread out in unpredictable ways.

Now imagine trying to find something from four years ago.

At this point, I think it is highly unlikely that a DA could talk anyone into conducting a landfill search even if a judge would sign off on it.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I wish I knew if the cause of every fire is investigated, but I don't suppose they can be with the number that happen in CA most years.

SBM

Considering the granularity of the statistics available on the causes of wildfires, I can only conclude that a great many of them are investigated.

 

[zwiebel]

O/T for anyone interested in SAR stories and a bit of forethought being put into a dog's name;

"Mountain rescue and 20 cops search for woman in mineshaft ...then find it was a dog walker heard calling for pet called Yelp"

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dog-walker-sparks-major-search-2278292

 

[sreshowtime]

^ well they certainly took it serious didn't they...best err on the side of caution I imagine

 

[Cubby]

As promised yesterday, here is the transcription for the reinacted interview of Jeff by Det. Loomis, and Det. Radomski's info on the number of trips out made by Jeff. I added the interview transcription in blue.


Det. Radomski: Jeff left several times. Once was to go to a convenience store. The other two were to home improvement stores to get supplies for what he was doing.

<snip>

Narrator: Since Jeff was the last person to see Bob that day, he's asked to come into the station for questioning.

**reinactment of Det Loomis interviewing Jeff on Friday, July 31**

Det. Loomis: Do you have any idea what could have happened to Bob?

Narrator: Jeff says he wasn't at the house when Bob left and produces two receipts to prove it.

**reinactment of Det Loomis interviewing Jeff on Friday, July 31**

Det. Loomis: So you went back and this is the second receipt?

Jeff (actor): right.


Det. Radomski: We were able to corroborate it with some store surveillance and yes his time is accounted for but there are still windows of opportunity if it were for something to go wrong.

Narrator: Placentia police follow up Jeff's interview with a thorough search of Bob's house.

 

[deca]

Ok, so we have

JeM going to CVS (a drug store) getting some donuts and going to Bob's house in the morning.
11ish phone call to Bob from outside party
Then around 11 ish JeM leaving to go to Home Depot (so he says? I don't think there is a receipt for this trip)
12 ish cleaning lady outside, Bob doesn't answer
12:15 JeM shows up, acts oddly, lets cleaning lady in
Before 3, JeM leaves goes to HD again
CL leaves
JeM returns does something at the house, then leaves
House empty until much later that night.

Right?

So here is something that has never been revealed to us:
What was JeM fixing? In all the reports it is never stated: JeM was replacing X, or painting Y. There is never a short list of odd jobs reported. So I am assuming that LE is not releasing what was done. I would think they would have questioned him about it.


I have started to feel strongly about AH's involvement in this case. If Bob was killed accidentally or not that morning. WHY would he have moved him so quickly from the house? Wouldn't it have made sense to wait for the cover of darkness?
So I am starting to wonder if Bob walked/ was driven over to AH's house or office or something to talk to him about the money and something happened then.
Maybe "someone dark" is AH. AH got rid of Bob and his dad felt compelled to help him clean up the tracks??

I guess the another scenario could be that Bob was concealed in the house while the CL was there?

There are quite a few possibilities, I guess. We know nothing about AHs whereabouts that day.

 

[Cubby]

Yes, other than the call from an outside party was 10'ish and I agree there doesn't appear to be verification of the 1st trip to home depot/hardware store.

The only info we know regarding repairs is what Det. Rad stated in the disappeared episode, plumbing and electrical work. I'm sure LE won't release the honey-do list because they can compare what Bob requested versus what work was done and what work may have been done which was not requested by Bob.

The missing receipt for the 1st HD trip explains why the timeline moved.

Additionally, find it interesting JeM didn't recall that he might have seen an SUV driving slowly down the street once or twice, until 4 days after Bob's disappearance.

The Disappeared episode really filled in a lot of holes for me. Lot's of them.....

 

[Cubby]

I think if Bob walked over to AH's house that morning someone would have seen him. The neighbors reported not having seen Bob since Saturday the 25th, the day prior to the heated family meeting.

Maybe AH drove over to Bob's house and arrived prior to his dad arriving that Monday morning?

What kind of vehicle did AH have at the time his grandfather went missing? Does he still have it or did he get rid of the car? And if so, when did he get rid of the car? Was the car he owned at the time of Bob's disappearance ever processed?

I have to think that LE was unable to verify that first trip to HD, because if they had, I can't imagine why Bob's daughters would not have stated there were two trips out and which trip out it was that JeM arrived at Bob's to find the housekeeper waiting.

There is too much omitted and too many questions evaded by Bob's daughter's for this to have been done by someone outside the 5 members of their immediate family.

 

[zwiebel]

Upthread a long time ago, someone mentioned that the pharamacy was Rite Aid and not CVS.

I've been trying to link the map with all the Rite Aids near placentia, for someone coming from the direction of San Bernardino. The link just defaults to the search though. I'll try this list of addresses.
http://www.yellowpages.com/placentia-ca/rite-aid

Timeline wise, I don't think it is hugely important if it was CVS or Rite Aid. They all look far enough away to me, that anyone getting a receipt there at 9.30am, would be likely to have missed that 10am call to Bob at Carnation drive. That Yorba Linda BLvd one seems likely to me. Is half an hour too long to drive from there to Bob's? If it is, maybe there was another stop off before son in law arrived at Bob's.

If at 10am, Bob told housekeeper "Jeff will be coming", but by 12pm Bob was gone, with his bed in disarray and his slippers left in the bedroom, and son in law unaware the housekeeper was coming...it just begins to sound to me like Bob disappeared almost immediately after that call. Was maybe disturbed taking a shower just after the call, which might explain the slippers in his bedroom and the unmade bed ( he was going to make it after his shower)?

Another possibility is that Bob woke up, tried to have his breakfast, was interrupted by a call or calls, then started towards the shower and was interrupted by the housekeeper's call, then finally got in the shower and was interrupted by son in law at the door. Who was maybe late, because he'd stopped off at the pharmacy?

That could have irritated Bob, especially if he had to come downstairs and open the door in a robe or just a towel. I scurry back upstairs quick when that happens to me, throwing out rebukes over my shoulder. Sometimes Mr Z makes it worse by following me up, to try and elaborate on why he's forgotten to take his key yet again. Infuriating.

But I've forgotten about daughter PB's call around 11.30-12Noon again (said by another daughter to have been firmed up about a quarter to 12). Just nothing seems to fit with that.

 

[zwiebel]

Does anyone think there is any possibility that there could have been someone in the house when the housekeeper arrived, and they snuck out after she and Jeff came in? Is there anyway a fit, active person could have come out of an upstairs window, then got away from the house without the housekeeper seeing?

I would love to see pictures and plans of the house, especially out back, to see if there are any ways that might have been possible.

 

[Cubby]

I think PB gave the time of that call to make it appear as if there were only minutes between the time she spoke with Bob and the time JeM arrived. Though, it doesn't work because there is no receipt for the 1st hardware store receipt, and Agnes arrived hours before the 3:04pm time stamped HD receipt.

I'm starting to think prior involvement regarding Bob's finances (PB's having done his taxes and reporting on the money being given to the BL, along with RB's poison pen letter) convinced PB and RB those actions would incriminate them in whatever occured that Monday morning...... and I think that might even include JuM. JuM's original time given is closest to that 10ish call Monday morning, and I think that is most accurate.

I'm going to bet all the daughters stories only changed after discovering there was no verification of that 1st HD trip..... and part of me believes that only AH and JeM are involved and they have left the women guessing...... I can see JuM pondering a zillion idea's a mile a minute and getting stuck on the BL. Then JeM going with the story his wife came up with by stating he might have seen an SUV drive by slowly when interviewed by LE 4 days later on July 31.

Additionally, I think it is quite possible that 2 hour window covers Jem's possible window of opportunity, but without knowing the whereabouts of AH, it could be a few hours longer. Especially if he met with any clients that day? (For SAR purposes).

Hypothetically, if AH met with clients at their office location, it is possible Bob is somewhere along the route AH may have travelled for work. Or even the route along which JeM previously travelled for work. Didn't both he and JuM work at a hospital DTH at one time and both travelled from RS to that hospital? I wonder what route they drove to and from work.

 

[Cubby]

Does anyone think there is any possibility that there could have been someone in the house when the housekeeper arrived, and they snuck out after she and Jeff came in? Is there anyway a fit, active person could have come out of an upstairs window, then got away from the house without the housekeeper seeing?

I would love to see pictures and plans of the house, especially out back, to see if there are any ways that might have been possible.

I think it is possible, but not having exited via a window. Didn't JeM go around back to let himself and the CL in? Having gone around back would have let anyone in the house exit the front door. Whomever was in the house would have been alerted to CL's presence because of her knocking and possibly calling. Perhaps someone in the house then contacted JeM to let him know the CL had shown up. Alerting him to enter via the back door instead of the front......

 

[zwiebel]

Well, yes.

Landfill searches conducted within days of a crime are often unsuccessful because it isn't like they just tip the trash into a big pile and leave it. Most landfills are constantly being shaped and compacted with bulldozers, so the trash in them gets squished down and spread out in unpredictable ways.

Now imagine trying to find something from four years ago.

At this point, I think it is highly unlikely that a DA could talk anyone into conducting a landfill search even if a judge would sign off on it.

I know. Dogs hit on a communal trash room after little toddler Sky Metalwala disappeared. I don't think it's even a single landfill that can be pinpointed in his case I dearly wish that little one could come home too. He has beautiful brown eyes that could haunt a person forever, and in his case, I hope that's exactly what they are doing to someone. Every minute of every day.