CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

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  • #921
Whatever happened to the private investigator daughters hired? The only information I've seen he/she contributed was that the case was 'bizarre' and Bob had no enemies that anyone knew of.

During a search for a missing person, don't investigators usually provide info to family, and then family share what they can with the public, to help them find their loved one? Also, at least one daughter has made hints about a 'dark' person; someone shady around Bob/Bob's business dealings. That sounds like a potential enemy to me. Didn't she share that information with the PI?

Was the PI asked to co-operate with police, and share any info they uncovered? I hope the family are still in touch and have told the PI to share anything and everything they discovered with the OC Cold Case Unit investigator. Just in case there is something important that may have been missed.
 
  • #922
Hello guests!

If you are thinking it's a little quiet on this thread - you're right.

We're all around though. Just waiting for an arrest. :)

Oh, we're still here for sure. ;)
 
  • #923
Hello,Oriah.

I bet you've gone off search and rescuing now, but that's okay. We know you always have Bob in mind.

Just as an incidental, does anyone know why in the world anyone would invent an application for writing, that does not have a save function? In fact, an app where they would put a delete button right where any normal person would go to save? And not even have one of those little boxes that pop up and say, 'Are you sure you want to delete this article you spent so long working on until it was just as perfect as you could get it..forever?'

If you don't have an answer for that, does anyone have an answer why anyone writing anything they felt was important would be foolish enough to use it? I'd be grateful for any answers. I could stop banging my head against the wall then ( very dangerous in my house at the moment. Even a sneeze can result in large 'picture windows' opening up in walls, unexpectedly, and the dog attempting a paraglide flight into thin air, without the para equipment to go with it).

Poor Bob. I hope he has got some very clever, organized, methodical and technology astute people working for him behind the scenes. I really do.
 
  • #924
In Greece, the case of a single, unidentified child has triggered a global outpouring of people trying to help. Thousands and thousands of calls have come in. There are particular circumstances that have combined, and she is a pretty, blonde child, but it still illustrates to me, what publicity can do.

The people trying to help are strangers, and many of them are not even in the same country or even continent. The child is not in any immediate danger. But something about the case has triggered an urgent need to help.

I'm not suggesting that amount of interest is desired for Bob's case ( the Greek call line has been overwhelmed and that's bad news for other children who are missing and endangered) but......there was definitely something about Bob's case that caught media and public interest, at first. I am convinced that in 2009, a huge support team could have been gathered, with lots of locals willing and able to physically search for him.

As Grainne said earlier, it appears that by simply doing nothing, it was enough to 'disappear' all that interest. It's as bad as someone stomping around saying don't bother searching for this man! Much cleverer though. It's hard to apportion blame, when there is only 'nothing' to attach it to.
 
  • #925
I think Bob would thoroughly approve of the OC District Attorney's spending habits, by the way. Do you know, the office manages to spend under budget every year? They must have people there who are very good with finances and know all about how it works, and what to look out for.

Fiscal responsibility. That was key for Bob too, though I think that caused him some problems and criticism that the DA's office is unlikely to encounter.
 
  • #926
Hello guests!

If you are thinking it's a little quiet on this thread - you're right.

We're all around though. Just waiting for an arrest. :)


Oh yeah, just waiting. We don't mind. We can wait.
 
  • #927
There is a movie with Catherine Deneuve which is very chic and angst ridden, being French. Les parapluis(??? sp, umbrellas, anyway) de Cherbourg. The theme music is I will wait for you.

There is a youtube of Connie Francis singing that song in English. It's very beautiful, and just has one pic of Connie, which is so reminscent of that young portrait of Fontelle, in Disappeared. I really think that should be Fontelle's song, the way she has waited for Bob, and continues to do.

"He would not have left on his own'' she stated, as soon as Bob went missing. She was so confused and shocked, but she knew that in July 2009.

Over four years later, she still knows that, and is still saying it. Her voice has risen above the rest of the noise now, and is being heard loud and clear.
 
  • #928
A quick recap of what the rest of the 'noise' has consisted of;

One daughter asking Bob to 'come home' and hoping 'he'll show up'.

His son in law suggesting Bob went to a neighbour, was unwell, or took a walk.

His grandson suggesting he might have left because of fighting in the family.

Odd suggestions that related the disappearance only to how it affected the family - Bob's disappearance had upset them, and he needed to return and face up to what he'd done. Or something strange like that.

Cold feet, dementia, dark friends, darker business details as well.

No evidence at all seems to have surfaced to support these though.

Myself, I think grandson's theory is most interesting, and I hope the cold case investigators get to talk to him about that.
 
  • #929
Running Springs Chamber of Commerce is asking for award nominations for businesses/individuals who have helped create a positive image of the community. I wonder if JuM will nominate son in law?

If what she said is correct, he has been doing sterling work searching for missing hiker Alois Krost, and I am totally, honestly of the opinion that it is a very positive thing to have done. I really hope searches will continue for as long as it takes, so he can come home to Germany.

I think Bob's son in law should be nominated, for the effort he has put in, searching for a visitor from Germany he did not know.

http://rotwnews.com/2013/10/17/chamber-seeks-nominations-for-community-recognition-awards/
 
  • #930
lol oh oh
 
  • #931
Checking in after zwie's very sly suggestion :floorlaugh:

Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know I have been reading and been too lazy to "thank" everyone. Thanks for all your hard work!
 
  • #932
In this OC case linked, it took eight years for witnesses to come forward. I'm not blaming them, because they were scared and it sounds like they had good reason. But, eventually they did come forward and someone is on trial.

http://m.wesh.com/news/detectives-c...er/-/15560370/22086888/-/fvs3vvz/-/index.html


Now this was the work of the OC Sheriff's Unresolved Homicide Unit ( which I bet is often called the cold case unit). Do they work with the DA's cold case unit?

I wish I could find a diagram of all OC LE depts, and how they are arranged, and linked. I don't understand the difference between a sheriff's office and a police dept - do all towns have a sheriff? If not, why not? What's the difference between a sworn and non-sworn officer? Is the OC Sheriff the big boss of any other local sheriffs, and is the DA the big boss of all of them?

I don't even know the difference between a sheriff's officer and a police officer, sigh. I would love to know if the hierarchy is all set out somewhere in a nice, simple format. I think it probably isn't though. People who have grown up with the system won't need one, and setting out the hierarchy would look like - well, that there's a hierarchy.

I have checked wiki, but that hasn't really cleared it up for me.
 
  • #933
  • #934
Now, I'm sure Constable Dixon could explain it all to me, were he still around.

The video clip is only a couple of seconds, but it is enough for Constable Dixon to neatly sum up Law Enforcement, English style. When he says 'Evenin' all,' by the way, the correct reply is, 'Evenin' Constable'. Or 'Good Evening Constable', if you're posh. He would do a special police flex of his knees too, but you can't see it in the clip. Any law enforcement officer will know how to do it though, even in the US. Just ask. :)

(His chin strap hasn't slipped either. It's in the correct position and nobody could ask why. People were not allowed to be impertinent with Constables in those days).

Dixon of Dock Green intro Jack Warner 1973 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

ETA: Just click on the top bar, sigh. I hate these empty boxes.
 
  • #935
Why would anyone put a body in the trash? Let alone a baby. It's that last gesture of disrespect that breaks my heart.

That poor worker and those poor San Bernardino police. Imagine having to go and collect that little one. San Bernardino Coroner's office will be taking care of that baby now, and he or she will have a proper, sorrowful and dignified funeral for sure, identified or not. Rest in peace, little one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-belt-California-trash-recycling-plant.html
 
  • #936
Now this was the work of the OC Sheriff's Unresolved Homicide Unit ( which I bet is often called the cold case unit). Do they work with the DA's cold case unit?

I wish I could find a diagram of all OC LE depts, and how they are arranged, and linked. I don't understand the difference between a sheriff's office and a police dept - do all towns have a sheriff? If not, why not? What's the difference between a sworn and non-sworn officer? Is the OC Sheriff the big boss of any other local sheriffs, and is the DA the big boss of all of them?

I don't even know the difference between a sheriff's officer and a police officer, sigh. I would love to know if the hierarchy is all set out somewhere in a nice, simple format. I think it probably isn't though. People who have grown up with the system won't need one, and setting out the hierarchy would look like - well, that there's a hierarchy.

SBM

Here's my best shot at answering your questions.

The US is union of 50 states; each state has its own legal code and the federal government also has a legal code. In most matters, if there is a conflict between federal and state law, federal law trumps state law but there are exceptions and weird cases. Lots of them. But overall, that's how it works: one overarching set of federal laws and 50 sets of state laws. In the US, the model for laws is British common law except for Louisiana which is based in the Napoleonic law.

One overall principle of government in the US is that at some point in every hierarchy, the responsible official is elected. So, for instance, the president of the US is an elected civilian and has authority over all of the military.

Within each state are further subdivisions of territory called counties (except for Louisiana, which has parishes) and cities. Cities are incorporated, meaning that a group of people who lived in close proximity got together and voted to incorporate as a town. A city collects taxes and makes regulations largely regarding property use and commerce. Areas outside of cities are often called unincorporated. Counties collect taxes from property owners in unincorporated areas and makes regulations largely regarding property use and commerce.

At the city level, one of the functions of government is to provide law enforcement. This can be done in one of a number of ways: most cities and towns of a certain size have a police department. Sometimes cities contract out law enforcement duties to the sheriff (see below) or to a private company. The jurisdiction of these law enforcers ends at the city limits.

Counties provide law enforcement for the unincorporated areas of the county, usually by having a sheriff's department. The sheriff's jurisdiction ends at the county lines; in most states, the sheriff's department provides assistance in investigations if requested by a specific city police department but it is a matter of being asked rather than having hierarchical authority over the police department.

Sometimes, in small towns, the town will divide up law enforcement duties between their own police department (for traffic enforcement) and contract with the local sheriff's department for serious investigations.

The chief of police is usually an appointed position and is part of the city's government hierarchy. The chief of police may answer directly to the city council or may answer to the city manager who then answers to the city government. Different cities within the same state can have differing city government hierarchies. The overall principle is that at some point in the food chain, someone has to answer to elected authorities.

At the county level, the position of sheriff is sometimes by appointment and sometimes by election. In places where the sheriff is appointed, the governmental hierarchy makes the sheriff accountable to someone who has been elected. Obviously, in places where the sheriff is elected, the sheriff is accountable to the people who speak via elections. In places where the sheriff is appointed, the county governmental body that appoints the sheriff is elected.

A police officer works for a police department which has jurisdiction over a specific incorporated area of land. A sheriff's deputy works for the sheriff's department, which has jurisdiction over unincorporated territory in that county.

States have a department of investigation which is invited in by the law enforcement agency of a given jurisdiction. The state department of investigation usually has the big money forensic equipment and other expensive investigative tools that local law enforcement agencies just don't have the budget for.

In theory, every citizen has the duty to uphold the law. Under this theory is the principle of the citizen's arrest, where any ordinary citizen can secure the person of someone who has committed a crime until a law enforcement officer of the correct jurisdiction arrives. What keeps people from abusing this principle is laws about unlawful confinement which can carry penalties up to life in prison without parole (in the case of kidnapping or abduction). Every citizen is expected to have enough knowledge of the law to avoid transgressing the law (ignorance of the law is not a defence in the US).

Sworn law enforcement officers are given special training and have special rights and protections under the law that ordinary (unsworn) citizens do not have. For instance, so long as a given LE officer is acting within the laws and policies of their department they are immune from charges of unlawful confinement.

Police officers may arrest suspects for violations of the law but the decision of whether or not to prosecute lies with the local prosecutor.

The hierarchy in most states from bottom to top looks something like this:

*unsworn officers (basically, any citizen)

*sworn officers

*chief of police or county sheriff

*local prosecutor

*local governmental body

*state governmental body

*federal government

Does this clarify anything for you?
 
  • #937
Why would anyone put a body in the trash? Let alone a baby. It's that last gesture of disrespect that breaks my heart.

That poor worker and those poor San Bernardino police. Imagine having to go and collect that little one. San Bernardino Coroner's office will be taking care of that baby now, and he or she will have a proper, sorrowful and dignified funeral for sure, identified or not. Rest in peace, little one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-belt-California-trash-recycling-plant.html

Zweibel, it's usually a tragedy from every angle.

Most often, the backstory is that the mother of the baby has been desperately concealing her pregnancy from either her parents or her partner. There is often a history of mental and/or physical abuse between the mother and the one(s) she is concealing the pregnancy from.

Sometimes it is a result of the draconian laws about illegal immigration in the US. Pregnant women without documentation, even women who really want their baby, can be afraid to seek out prenatal care due to fear of being reported to the government and deported. When they go into labour, they are afraid to go to a hospital or to seek out a qualified medical provider. Sometimes their partner is there for the labour, sometimes the woman goes through labour alone. Quite often the baby is born without complications but when there are complications, things can go pear-shaped in a hurry. Sometimes the baby dies immediately after birth due to lack of knowledge about stimulating breathing and suctioning the baby's airways.

In both cases, the woman often starts labour in poor physical condition due to extreme dieting to keep her weight gain down or due to poverty. I've read a slew of cases involving underage girls who were so desperate to keep their condition secret from their parents that they only gained a total of 5 pounds during the entire pregnancy. The mother has undergone what is often a relatively prolonged and painful ordeal alone or with only the support of her untrained partner. She is often traumatised and is in no physical or mental condition to make sensible decisions.

Some of the saddest cases I've read about are mothers who gave birth sitting on the toilet in order to hide any possible evidence of birth. The baby is delivered into the toilet and drowns because of the mother's lack of knowledge.

Putting the baby into the trash is usually not done with the intent to disrespect the baby. It is usually the action of a desperate mother who feels she has no options but to hide the infant. Usually it's because she's been hiding her pregnancy for 7-8 months and is desperate to keep her secret. Sometimes it is the action of a mother who wanted her baby but when it dies (either stillborn due to complications during delivery or lack of knowledge immediately after birth), she is equally desperate for it not to be known.

People will do things, terrible things, in a panic that they would never do if they were able to unemotionally consider their options.
 
  • #938
Such a sad old world sometimes. I remember now, reading about a baby drop off somewhere, like the ones which are used for animals. It must be a significant problem, I guess. Probably little hope this baby will ever be identified, if it is a case like you mentioned.

I am still studying your very helpful post about LE Grainne. It's a very complex, multi-layered arrangement. It's eye-opening in helping me understand how jurisdictional linkage blindness happens. It's so democratic, too, with all the elected officials. In England last year, they finally introduced a police commission, made up of elected officials. Voting turnout was so low though, there were calls for it to be reheld, or scrapped altogether. Sigh.
 
  • #939
Such a sad old world sometimes. I remember now, reading about a baby drop off somewhere, like the ones which are used for animals. It must be a significant problem, I guess. Probably little hope this baby will ever be identified, if it is a case like you mentioned.

I am still studying your very helpful post about LE Grainne. It's a very complex, multi-layered arrangement. It's eye-opening in helping me understand how jurisdictional linkage blindness happens. It's so democratic, too, with all the elected officials. In England last year, they finally introduced a police commission, made up of elected officials. Voting turnout was so low though, there were calls for it to be reheld, or scrapped altogether. Sigh.

There's a chance that the mother of the baby will be identified. They are although it is difficult to estimate the frequency because who knows how many babies disappear without attracting any attention? The reason I know the general outline of the backstory is because the mothers have been identified.

The US has an institutionalised fear of authority without the accountability of elections. That fear so permeates the culture that we're practically unaware of it. I believe that fear is probably a factor at the root of the jurisdictional turf wars. The great strength of the system is that it is highly resistant to widespread corruption and that since each LE agency has its own office culture, it is easy to find a fresh eye outside the LE agency with direct jurisdiction.

Every nation, every culture has such institutionalised fears, by the way, I'm not trying to say that the US is in any way special for having such a fear. Just that we are all blind to certain aspects of the culture each individual lives in.
 
  • #940
I hope someone's held accountable for this fiasco. They shut the care home down with all the residents still inside???!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-CLOSED-Thursday-leaving-fend-themselves.html

I'm not entirely certain if it was due to the nationwide closures or because of failed checks - other stories vary in the details. Seems like kind neighbours had reported concerns before. Then someone couldn't find where her mother had been taken, after all the residents were finally rescued.

It seems every resident has been accounted for now though. Poor things. Even though conditions were obviously very bad, it can still be very traumatic for some seniors to move home, and now I get the feeling a lot of them are going to have a few moves before they get settled somewhere else.

I hope the building has been secured in case some of those seniors have left precious possessions behind, and it all doesn't get snatched and auctioned off if there's a bankruptcy or something.
 
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