CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[travelbug]

Very annoying. Pics didn't come with it.

Here you go, all of the pics I've posted thus far.

Bear in mind that this floorplan (not decor) is identical to Bob's house - but in reverse:

Pic #1 - kitchen with access door to garage (next to empty fridge space)
Pic #2 - laundry area in garage from vantage point of kitchen access door
Pic #3 - sliding patio door in kitchen with inside latch lock only, no key access
Pic #4 - upstairs hallway bath (same layout as LE damage pic)
Pic #5 - upstairs master bath (to reference proper toilet/linoleum installation)

 

[Cubby]

It's difficult not to spend all of my time time right now following the McStay investigation. But, the case that brought me to this website a very long time ago is Bob's and I thought I would post a couple of pictures that have always had me wondering about the first night Bob went missing.

Picture 1 is of a kitchen laid out identical to Bob's, except reversed. The important thing to notice in this picture is that the doorway at the far left (just past the empty refrigerator spot) leads directly to the garage, where the laundry area is located).
Picture 2 shows the laundry area from the vantage point of that same door. Note that there is a door to the side yard of the house next to the laundry with a standard lock & key mechanism.
Picture 3 is of the sliding glass patio door in the kitchen that leads to the rear yard. It is the standard door used in California construction and it is only lockable from inside the house with a latch. There is no lock and key mechanism.

I'm curious about the connection between 2 facts we know. First, when JM returned from Home Depot to find Agnes waiting by the front door he went to the back of the house to let her in. There are only 3 exterior doors on that model house: the front door, the side door (by the laundry) and the sliding glass patio door. If he entered from the patio door it would have to be unlocked from the inside.

Second, when LE arrived and were let in by AH they did NOT look in the garage :banghead: They were told by AH that it was inaccessible because of all of the things being stored there. It is incomprehensible to me that they didn't look in there for Bob! They could have checked by opening the main garage door, the door by the laundry or forcing open the kitchen access door. Obviously, just about anything could have been hidden in there that night waiting to be disposed of in the middle of the night of the next morning.

Interesting.

 

[sreshowtime]

located an unlocked door? I thought the whole 'purpose' of AH meeting LE there was because he had a key...I assume the thought being he could provide them entry, instead of a door/window being broken into


(and wth didn't he go on in and check to begin with, if 'they' were so worried...I mean it is his grandpa after all- eye roll)

 

[zwiebel]

A summary of the search, in case anyone can work out how the garage was entered.

LE arrive. Two officers
AH on drive with keys. All enter via front door
Check entryway and family room
Kitchen. No dirty dishes. Mail on counter
TV room
Then out rear sliding door (had to be unlocked) into undisturbed backyard
Then AH 'located' unlocked door leading to garage on West side of the house, that would only open 2"

Then upstairs
Master bedroom, with bed made
Two other rooms

Then downstairs and 'out the garage'.

ETA; they definitely mean they went through the garage, as they state how cluttered it was.

 

[sreshowtime]

huh?
so they couldn't get in the door from the back yard, where the laundry is located, yet it sounds like they could come out the kitchen garage access and then left from an open garage door?

Makes me wonder it must have been one heck of a pile of laundry blocking that door next to a washer and dryer

( but i really think Mr H was gone by the time le came)

 

[zwiebel]

So, when son in law met the housekeeper, and went around the back to let her in, he either

Used the door that later that night, police could not open because it was jammed with clutter in the garage behind it.

Or

He had left the sliding rear doors unlocked, as they could not be opened from outside.

Had Bob been in the house, he would have shut those doors after son in law left. He never left them open.

One other option - somebody was inside the house already, and opened the sliding doors for son in law, then left through the yard exit, without the housekeeper ever seeing him/her.

 

[zwiebel]

huh?
so they couldn't get in the door from the back yard, where the laundry is located, yet it sounds like they could come out the kitchen garage access and then left from an open garage door?

Makes me wonder it must have been one heck of a pile of laundry blocking that door next to a washer and dryer

( but i really think Mr H was gone by the time le came)

Aren't the kitchen/laundry room garage access all the same door?

ETA. Ignore that. I'm getting confused.

 

[zwiebel]

As I have worked it out, there are three ways to get into the garage;

Via a door in the kitchen.
Via a door in the backyard
Via the big garage door itself, on the driveway

The door in the backyard was the one police found blocked by clutter.

If a person has to block a door with clutter, one leading to the backyard seems sensible. Stops home invaders (maybe).

But also, if a person wanted to transport something from the house to the yard, unseen, that would be the door to use. And it could be easily blocked afterwards, to ensure nobody got to look at anything too closely in that area.

I would be interested to know if the housekeeper had always found that door blocked by clutter too, or if this was a new development. And if it was still locked when Mrs Harrod returned, two days later.

 

[sreshowtime]

ya know how my brain monkeys work over time-I had a thought, in thinking about the McStays, and if they were kept at a location between their home & and final resting place..
any who-
was it ever mentioned/verified if each of Mr. H's family members spent Monday night in their respective homes?

 

[zwiebel]

What we really need to know as well, at this point - was there a vehicle backed up in the drive, the day Bob disappeared?

So that anyone transporting stuff could have taken it through the garage, out of the yard door (after shifting the clutter) and then out of the yard gate at the side, straight to the trunk of the vehicle? Squeezing between the garage doors and the vehicle so they would be almost invisible to any passersby?

 

[travelbug]

So, when son in law met the housekeeper, and went around the back to let her in, he either

Used the door that later that night, police could not open because it was jammed with clutter in the garage behind it.

Or

He had left the sliding rear doors unlocked, as they could not be opened from outside.

Had Bob been in the house, he would have shut those doors after son in law left. He never left them open.

One other option - somebody was inside the house already, and opened the sliding doors for son in law, then left through the yard exit, without the housekeeper ever seeing him/her.

Precisely the conclusions I drew from the information. If he was able to enter through the side into the laundry area in the afternoon, could he have piled/stacked something over there to dispose of the following day (and forgetting to lock the door). The thing is when he left, after Agnes, he had no reason to believe there would be anyone searching the house for a day or two, but then Fontelle :loveyou: called LE all the way from Missouri.

 

[zwiebel]

That is a horrible thought. The problem is, the police were deflected by the tidyness of the house, and grandson's reassurances that the door was always blocked with clutter.

Alone, I think police searching for a missing person and finding a door jammed with an object, would almost certainly have got it open somehow. It was having a helpful family member there that reassured them

 

[zwiebel]

Travelbug, could you recognize anything like the floorplans of Bob's house, here?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamperks/sets/72157603381902237/

 

[zwiebel]

ya know how my brain monkeys work over time-I had a thought, in thinking about the McStays, and if they were kept at a location between their home & and final resting place..
any who-
was it ever mentioned/verified if each of Mr. H's family members spent Monday night in their respective homes?

Not really. PB left when the media was there, but no idea for how long, or if she came back. I believe JuM made a post saying she had just got home, Monday evening.

 

[sreshowtime]

someone was 'supposed' to have left Mr H's house around 6 ish right? Wonder when they got to their home?

 

[travelbug]

Travelbug, could you recognize anything like the floorplans of Bob's house, here?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamperks/sets/72157603381902237/

Brilliant find Zwei, I didn't spot the exact one but 1 or 2 were similar. Give me a little time and I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[zwiebel]

That person has loads more brochures and was supposed to be writing a book. They pop up in a few places, and have said people are welcome to ask about specific brochures. Sadly though, I think they gave up on the book idea a few years ago. Such a shame. I'd have bought it.

 

[zwiebel]

Look at the sleuths in the comments working out exactly where this pic was taken, in 1957!

Housing tract, Orange County, 1957 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[sreshowtime]

does it give the name of the subdivision on the plat? has anyone pulled it up?

 

[Cubby]

located an unlocked door? I thought the whole 'purpose' of AH meeting LE there was because he had a key...I assume the thought being he could provide them entry, instead of a door/window being broken into


(and wth didn't he go on in and check to begin with, if 'they' were so worried...I mean it is his grandpa after all- eye roll)

Exactly. AH was obviously concerned about police witnessing his entry into the home. That tells me he already knew something was wrong. If he wasn't aware a crime had been commited, why not enter the home and wait for the police inside, rather than out front?

And, AH's dad knew his wife would fine alone in the house for the next two days until Mrs. Harrod arrived, and didn't recall the suspicious SUV he might have seen drive by slowly on the wrong side of the street until 4 days after Bob's disappearance.

How did JeM know his wife would be safe in Bob's home immediately following Bob's disappearance? And why did AH refuse to enter the house without police as a witness?

You know, because not one of us would dare enter our elderly parents or grandparents home if we thought there could be a life threatening situation if they were in the home hurt..... Nope, not going in until police arrive. riiiiiiight.

Oh, and let's not forget those time stamped receipts are stamped prior to the last time anyone spoke with Bob and after the housekeeper arrived. No alibi.......