CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

And let's not forget Jeff's reply to Agnes when she told him Bob was not answering the door.



I've always found it odd that Jeff's first question after being notified Bob was not answering the door was if Agnes was supposed to be there. That reaction from Jeff speaks volumes.

I find this odd too.

Other things I find odd are son-in-law told police;
Bob might have felt unwell
Might have gone to see a neighbour
Might have been abducted by someone in a suspicious black car ( he did not actually say he thought the driver had abducted Bob, but that seems like the obvious implication to me)
Son-in-law never;
spoke to media
Returned to finish the repairs despite leaving Bob a note saying he would
Searched for Bob or checked if he was with a neighbour
Informed police or Mrs Harrod Bob was missing
Returned to the house for the welfare check, to see if Bob was there
Stepped forward to assist his wife and her sisters when they were dealing with the fallout of Bob disappearing
Provided an exact time period in which Bob could have disappeared

 

[zwiebel]

The only thing I don't find odd is that son-in-law seems content to have all the attention focused on Bob's daughters and not himself.

 

[believe09]

I think the machine sprang into place. Although I believe the machine traditionally centered around impulsive behavior on the part of JuM....ultimately all of this may have sprung from her impulsive behavior.

 

[sreshowtime]

the more I have read & caught up on this case, the more I am going wowso

ya know , when my daddy remarried, 6 months after my mama passed ( they were married 50 yrs)
I was NOT a happy camper, no sirree, BUT because I loved and respected my daddy, I stood by him in his decision... and he didn't forsake me in the end. Had I not, well, daddy wasn't one to mess with.

 

[zwiebel]

I think the machine sprang into place. Although I believe the machine traditionally centered around impulsive behavior on the part of JuM....ultimately all of this may have sprung from her impulsive behavior.

The machine around JuM has been more of a hindrance than a help, at times. A prime example to me is JuM going to Bob's house bright and early the day after he disappeared and immediately jumping into a media interview. So far, so good. That's exactly what you'd expect a daughter with a missing father to do. She's at the house, waiting and hoping he'll show up.

It's only later her big sister went and spoilt it all for her by telling everyone that JuM was actually there to change the linens, and was 'ambushed' by the camera crew.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

since its been 4 years, just looking a little outside the box as another member mentioned...I appreciate the responses, that was very kind of each and ever one of you.

Ive watched the one video on you tube and read the letter now, thanks for posting that. Even though its just speculation since; no one has been charged, the idea that one, two or all 3 sisters plus the guy was involved in the disappearance and so far have been able to remain free and not charge to me would be very impressive. To elude the LEOS, and seemed to have planned the perfect murder so far, 4 years later I just have a problem in grasping that. And all relatively in a short period of time with apparently no slip ups.

Just trying to move on past the cleaning lady. Must had been considered a coincidence that the day she changed to clean was the same day he disappeared, and she was right there at the house.

If J didn't show back up I wonder how long she would have sat there and waited.

My interest in the cleaning lady for now is if she felt jilted. Did bob make her a bunch of promises over the years, and she had these visions of grander. She thought for sure her life was going to great one day, no more cleaning etc etc........Than one day Bob tells her hes getting married, and the wife will be moving in, and her services would no longer be needed........Could that had enraged her to the point to have bob killed on that Monday, perhaps the person whom dropped her off was the one that took bob from the house. and that is why she changed the cleaning day. As far as we know according to her, bob and her was the only ones that knew about the change in the day..................THIS is my interest in the cleaning lady, once this is put to rest I can move on with thinking a little outside the box.

But without looking, DID anyone take any polygraph tests??

 

[believe09]

I dont believe that CL was involved in this except for being an unwilling witness. I think if there was a shred of anything that would bring her to the forefront of this investigation, the daughters would have been trumpeting it from the highest mountain. They took BL to court with absolutely nothing-there was no record of any loans whatsoever to her. Bob was a meticulous record keeper-there was full documentation of his loans-his daughter conceded this when she took the stand in the farce of a trial against BL.

Respectfully, I dont see how it makes more sense for CL to have murdered her employer and hidden his body when she would have no benefit from that action.

So far, 5 members of the Harrod family have benefited from the murder of Bob. One of them has benefited to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then again, maybe all of them have at this point. An accurate, complete audit would answer that question I suspect.

I appreciate the outside of the box theories, but even when similar theories about the CL have been brought up before they havent worked for me.

 

[Montjoy]

Aside from what Believe just wrote, I would wonder what possible window of opportunity the CL would have to murder and dispose of Bob -- however good a cleaner she might be. (But as I say, this is aside from her having absolutely no motive, personal or financial -- and I would also guess that JeM would have mentioned something about her appearance, which would have been disheveled had she just killed Bob, hidden him, and cleaned up in such a small amount of time.)

 

[Grainne Dhu]

the more I have read & caught up on this case, the more I am going wowso

ya know , when my daddy remarried, 6 months after my mama passed ( they were married 50 yrs)
I was NOT a happy camper, no sirree, BUT because I loved and respected my daddy, I stood by him in his decision... and he didn't forsake me in the end. Had I not, well, daddy wasn't one to mess with.

That is not an uncommon situation. And I think you did exactly the right thing on ethical and compassionate grounds, setting aside any considerations of paternal wrath.

My mama died in 2011 and my dad has been hitting matchmaker sites to look for a new wife. Rather than see it as a betrayal of her memory or an insult to their 54 yrs together, I see it as a tribute to her. I think he was so happy in their marriage that he wants to find that happiness again. And I know my mama hoped he would marry again because she told me so in her last week.

 

[believe09]

Bob was not small. He was tall, but thin. And at his full relaxed weight, he would have been tough to move.

Now maybe JeM and CL had something going on and conspired to do him in, but why?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Aside from what Believe just wrote, I would wonder what possible window of opportunity the CL would have to murder and dispose of Bob -- however good a cleaner she might be. (But as I say, this is aside from her having absolutely no motive, personal or financial -- and I would also guess that JeM would have mentioned something about her appearance, which would have been disheveled had she just killed Bob, hidden him, and cleaned up in such a small amount of time.)

I wondered if she felt cheated. after ten years, we don't know what conversations they had over those TEN years, we dont know if any promises were made etc.....If bob wanted to give her extra money for something, I am sure he could have done it without any suspicion about how he was spending his money. And my assumption, speculation was not that he was killed at the house, but taken somewhere from the house and then killed, forced or volunteering got into a vehicle, such as the person whom dropped off the cl. Maybe she was an little old christian lady whom cleaned his house for ten years because of her love for God.......BUT, I doubt that.

So the sisters after the Sunday meeting decided bob must die tomorrow, Monday and got the j to do it??....That is almost like a mob contract, and I don't see them pulling off such a hit so quick after a Sunday night meeting.

But maybe they did, but so far the LEOS have nothing physical to take to a grand juror for an indictment.

 

[believe09]

Or it was planned after Bob sprang the surprise of his marriage on his estranged family.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

since its been 4 years, just looking a little outside the box as another member mentioned...I appreciate the responses, that was very kind of each and ever one of you.

Ive watched the one video on you tube and read the letter now, thanks for posting that. Even though its just speculation since; no one has been charged, the idea that one, two or all 3 sisters plus the guy was involved in the disappearance and so far have been able to remain free and not charge to me would be very impressive. To elude the LEOS, and seemed to have planned the perfect murder so far, 4 years later I just have a problem in grasping that. And all relatively in a short period of time with apparently no slip ups.

Just trying to move on past the cleaning lady. Must had been considered a coincidence that the day she changed to clean was the same day he disappeared, and she was right there at the house.

If J didn't show back up I wonder how long she would have sat there and waited.

My interest in the cleaning lady for now is if she felt jilted. Did bob make her a bunch of promises over the years, and she had these visions of grander. She thought for sure her life was going to great one day, no more cleaning etc etc........Than one day Bob tells her hes getting married, and the wife will be moving in, and her services would no longer be needed........Could that had enraged her to the point to have bob killed on that Monday, perhaps the person whom dropped her off was the one that took bob from the house. and that is why she changed the cleaning day. As far as we know according to her, bob and her was the only ones that knew about the change in the day..................THIS is my interest in the cleaning lady, once this is put to rest I can move on with thinking a little outside the box.

But without looking, DID anyone take any polygraph tests??

All I can say is that the Placentia Police Department does not appear to be looking at her as anything but the first person to discover Bob was missing. They've been very thorough in investigating other possible suspects, so I doubt they overlooked her. I haven't seen any source that says no one knew the CL was going to be there on Monday except Bob; in fact, I believe someone outside the family did know the CL was at Bob's house that day.

One immediate and obvious disqualifier would be if she is married. Since all we have is her first name, I don't see any way to find out (and I believe it would be against WS rules to post about it).

Apparently some people connected to the case were polygraphed but the three sisters have made posts to other web sites that seem to imply that they have not been polygraphed and would be eager for the opportunity to do so. Since polygraphs are not admissible in court, can't even be mentioned, someone who was bold as brass could imply they hadn't taken one yet.

Bold as brass... who in this case could be described that way?

My personal theory is that Bob's murder was not premeditated. I think it happened when someone concerned with their share of the pot and Bob's stated intention of adding Fontelle to his accounts, etc, went over to Bob's house on Monday morning. They caught him either in bed or having just gotten up (bed not made, contrary to ten years of making it). What was intended as a calm reminder to Bob of that person's rights to his estate turned into an argument and got heated. Very heated.

And then... the perp may have shoved Bob or even taken a swing at him out of pure frustration. Or Bob may even have moved towards the other person on his own. In either case, what I theorise happened is that Bob lost his balance and fell. In the fall he sustained some sort of injury that killed him, possibly a closed skull fracture (which would not leave any blood behind).

The person who confronted Bob panicked and decided to hide Bob's body out of sheer terror. Hide the evidence and the whole problem would just go away sort of reasoning.

I think that the entire family (except for AH's young children) probably has enough information to figure out who amongst them is the perpetrator. I think they are all keeping their mouths shut because none of them want to do anything to jeopardise their inheritance under California laws pertaining to barring anyone from profiting as a result of a crime.

I don't think anyone in that family (again, with the possible exception of AH's young children) were sorry that Bob disappeared. It was probably close to the answer to their prayers.

Being a nice, upper middle class family, I don't think they fully understand that whoever gets to the OCDA first will be the party who benefits from any leniency. If no one talks, then the DA will file against everyone possible.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I dont believe that CL was involved in this except for being an unwilling witness. I think if there was a shred of anything that would bring her to the forefront of this investigation, the daughters would have been trumpeting it from the highest mountain. They took BL to court with absolutely nothing-there was no record of any loans whatsoever to her. Bob was a meticulous record keeper-there was full documentation of his loans-his daughter conceded this when she took the stand in the farce of a trial against BL.

SBM

I found the judge's ruling in that case hilarious reading. He must have had a macro that said something like "the plaintiff has failed to prove this element."

Judges do tend to hang out with other judges and I bet that was one of the cases that makes one judge say to another "boy, you'll never believe what was dragged into my court last month..."

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Bob was not small. He was tall, but thin. And at his full relaxed weight, he would have been tough to move.

Now maybe JeM and CL had something going on and conspired to do him in, but why?

Something happened right there...One or the other. they met each other at the same place where bob disappeared from. If j did it, then what a possible slip up to plan it and then run into the cleaning lady on your way back...

if she was involved, and jef showed up or anyone for that matter, she would have been doing what appeared as a normal routine, natural for her to be there, because she had been coming there for ten years, nothing strange about that..........OTHER than the day she changed from Tuesday to Monday, the same day bob is gone she is setting there and then here comes j.......no key?, don't know for sure if that was the truth or if there was a key but taking...........

That is the biggest thing that gets me, she changed the day from Tuesday to Monday, changed the day which she or he didn't do that much from what I read, but this time it happens to coincide on the day bob disappeared...If Monday was the typical day to clean, I wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

[Cubby]

The machine around JuM has been more of a hindrance than a help, at times. A prime example to me is JuM going to Bob's house bright and early the day after he disappeared and immediately jumping into a media interview. So far, so good. That's exactly what you'd expect a daughter with a missing father to do. She's at the house, waiting and hoping he'll show up.

It's only later her big sister went and spoilt it all for her by telling everyone that JuM was actually there to change the linens, and was 'ambushed' by the camera crew.

We learned about JuM changing the linens from a post she made on her community forum. Julie stated she went down to change the linens....

What doesn't make sense is why wait until he is missing to change the sheets- sheets she claimed on her community forum were a wedding gift. Why were they not given at the heated family meeting? OR prior to his disappearance? The heated family meeting was not the only time Julie saw Bob while Fontelle was in MO. Julie posted on her community forum that she and her sister were at dads helping box up her mothers things during the time Fontelle was packing in MO. Why not give him the sheets then?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Well it seems the consensuses is that the 3 or 1 sister/sisters and j were involved.
So Ill leave it alone. But when the day comes, and they say that is what happened I admit Ill be amazed they were able to pull this off for all this time with so much heat and investigations going on.

My only intention commenting here was to offer something outside the box since its been 4 years. But i meant no one any discomfort. Bob WILL have his justice one day, and those responsible will be brought to trial and prosecuted.
You can walk on ice for only awhile, eventually you will fall.

 

[Cubby]

I think the reason no one has been arrested is because pointing the finger at any one of the five would give a jury reasonable doubt.

There is a load of inconsistencies in statements from Family members starting day one of Bob's disappearance.

Jeff does not have an alibi for his whereabouts for the late morning when returning from the house.

I think the CL tried calling Bob more than once that morning and found him not answering the phone prior to her arrival.

Additionally, Bob's grandson walked from more than a half million in loans from Bob.

I think the two most likely involved are JeM and AH .... and they communicated in some way Sunday evening after the heated family meeting. I envision something along the lines of a conversation between the two like this: Dad, I did something with Grandpa's money I shouldn't have...... If Grandpa uncovers it while adding Fontelle to (name things fontelle was going to be added to) I could go to jail or prison.... I have minor children, blah, blah, blah and then Jeff and Julie went into gear to make sure Bob didn't find something that was being kept from him and they didn't lose their inheritance.

I think it is very possible Jeff may be covering up for something his son did... There is no known alibi for the grandson..... and it makes no sense to me the cleaning lady would have stuck around and waited for Jeff if she was involved. Also, who chose to participate in the Disappeared episode and which family members chose not to. The Michael's triangle did not participate. The cleaning lady did.

 

[Cubby]

Another thought about the cleaning lady. IF she had harmed Bob, why wait around for Jeff to come back? Why not let Jeff be the one to find Bob missing?

I've never heard of a perp that commits a crime and then hangs around waiting for family to arrive home. I can't make that fit.

Also, no discomfort. There is a lot of information here. While we can answer questions, it's hard to get a grasp on the case without reading at least the media thread and documents thread.

 

[Cherry]

cleaning lady doesn't fit for me at all.

Family however; does. In all ways. And so we wait.