CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Cubby]

hmm....she must have known JeM was going to be around??
have to admit I have wondered why she was supposedly sitting there waiting

I believe the cleaning lady was waiting for Bob. AFAIK she was unaware of the time JeM was planning on going to Bob's. I don't think she knew whether or not he had already arrived and finished his work, or he was yet to arrive.

All we know is she arrived and found no one there. Not Bob. Not Jeff.

 

[zwiebel]

More O/T - Do you have a picture of the washbear? (I'm wondering about raccoons, groundhogs.)

No, I've never been quick enough. But I've seen one so I'll try and find a pic of something similar and put it in my album.

ETA: Pic at link here: http://bluesgrass.deviantart.com/art/Waschbaer-339430703

 

[zwiebel]

I believe the cleaning lady was waiting for Bob. AFAIK she was unaware of the time JeM was planning on going to Bob's. I don't think she knew whether or not he had already arrived and finished his work, or he was yet to arrive.

All we know is she arrived and found no one there. Not Bob. Not Jeff.

That was a lucky coincidence, for Bob's case. The other coincidence of Bob disappearing in that exact small time window when Jeff went out, and Paula being lucky enough to overhear Jeff in the background of her call to Bob, saying he was going to the store.....That was even luckier.

Coincidences come and go, I suppose, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I still can't work out how that timeline led to someone telling Placentia PD Bob disappeared at 11am though. But somebody sure did;
http://www.placentia.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/102

 

[zwiebel]

to me, and this is jmvho, it seemed that she thought he was dead in the house somewhere, specifically upstairs. She thought Jeff had found "something" upstairs in the bedroom because he took so long.

Bob was of advanced years. She told him she was coming and there was no key in the mailbox. Jeff took a long time upstairs...I think the conclusion was a reasonable one.

That was her go to place-that he was dead or perhaps hurt inside of the house. She was worried. She had no key.

I spook easily, and don't have much hesitation about acting on my intuition. I have often thought about the housekeeper's hours spent in the house alone with Jeff, after those endless minutes he spent upstairs; her working downstairs, him upstairs. And then, after a while, she has to ascend those stairs to clean the bedrooms, still with the sense of dread in her heart for Bob, still with the mystery of why Jeff spent so long up there at first, without calling down.

I wonder if she spoke to him, poked her head around the bathroom door, or just silently got on with her work? I wonder how she felt ascending those stairs, and what her intuition was telling her? I wonder how she feels when she looks back on those few, important hours now? She was the first person to see the last person to see Bob, in the house. I wonder if the realization dawned later, or crossed the housekeeper's mind then, when she was alone in the house with Jeff?

 

[Cubby]

No, I've never been quick enough. But I've seen one so I'll try and find a pic of something similar and put it in my album.

ETA: Pic at link here: http://bluesgrass.deviantart.com/art/Waschbaer-339430703

That's a raccoon, zwie'. I think they get braver in more populated area's.

OT back to the squirrels. I have one that follows me. It knows my voice and car. It will follow me from my parked car to my front door. About a week ago I was outside calling for my son, by name, because his friends were outside. I'm calling for my son and what do you think comes running from around the corner to my front yard? The squirrel. Pretty funny when you are calling for your child and it's a squirrel that answers.

 

[Cubby]

Oh gosh, now you guys have me wondering whether or not the cleaning lady changed the sheets. She'd know what was on Bob's bed because she made it. She'd know if the sheets were mismatched as daughter JuM claimed.

Wouldn't it be something if the CL told LE she had changed the linens, which matched, and the linens she put on the bed could not be accounted for?

I'll have to give this some more thought when I am not so tired.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

No, I've never been quick enough. But I've seen one so I'll try and find a pic of something similar and put it in my album.

ETA: Pic at link here: http://bluesgrass.deviantart.com/art/Waschbaer-339430703

A raccoon!

They are bold, curious, intelligent and loooove humans because humans have the habit of leaving food all over the place.

They can also be fierce fighters; many a dog has tangled with a raccoon and come back the worse for the experience.

 

[zwiebel]

Wow, we have raccoons here! How exotic! I'm really thrilled.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh gosh, now you guys have me wondering whether or not the cleaning lady changed the sheets. She'd know what was on Bob's bed because she made it. She'd know if the sheets were mismatched as daughter JuM claimed.

Wouldn't it be something if the CL told LE she had changed the linens, which matched, and the linens she put on the bed could not be accounted for?

I'll have to give this some more thought when I am not so tired.

This is just something I got the impression of from a post that was made here once, but I think there is a possibility there may be a police photo in existence, that shows Bob's bed unmade. It's only my impression though, and very far from being a fact. I may have been red herringed, in fact.

 

[zwiebel]

That's a raccoon, zwie'. I think they get braver in more populated area's.

OT back to the squirrels. I have one that follows me. It knows my voice and car. It will follow me from my parked car to my front door. About a week ago I was outside calling for my son, by name, because his friends were outside. I'm calling for my son and what do you think comes running from around the corner to my front yard? The squirrel. Pretty funny when you are calling for your child and it's a squirrel that answers.

Mr Z has trouble hearing the pitch of my voice. Often, when I call the dog, Mr Z arrives. Now he's on crutches and has to make so much effort, I pretend I was calling him in the first place, and make up a question quick.

 

[Opie]

Mr Z has trouble hearing the pitch of my voice. Often, when I call the dog, Mr Z arrives. Now he's on crutches and has to make so much effort, I pretend I was calling him in the first place, and make up a question quick.

VERY smart move on your part!

 

[Opie]

That was a lucky coincidence, for Bob's case. The other coincidence of Bob disappearing in that exact small time window when Jeff went out, and Paula being lucky enough to overhear Jeff in the background of her call to Bob, saying he was going to the store.....That was even luckier.

Coincidences come and go, I suppose, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I still can't work out how that timeline led to someone telling Placentia PD Bob disappeared at 11am though. But somebody sure did;
http://www.placentia.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/102

Like many others here, I have a hard time believing in coincidences.

 

[believe09]

I remember that the family's position was that the family meeting and the disappearance (now homicide) of Bob was a coincidence. And RB's letter being dated 10 days to the day prior to the disappearance (now homicide) was a coincidence.

I dont see CL leaving the bed unmade....I think her role was to clean and tidy and I cant see leaving the bed unmade and doing the rest of her chores. I can see her leaving personal papers where they were however.

I am puzzled by something-I wonder why whoever killed Bob didnt take the note on yellow paper that showed Bob's to do list in terms of Fontelle? Thank God it was left behind actually. It is in his handwriting and it backs up her position.

The other issue that has been swimming around in my brain was PB's position on Disappeared that her father didnt share his personal business with anyone.

Isnt this coming from the woman who searched for Fontelle and did his books and helped him with his taxes or whatever?

 

[Oriah]

That was a lucky coincidence, for Bob's case. The other coincidence of Bob disappearing in that exact small time window when Jeff went out, and Paula being lucky enough to overhear Jeff in the background of her call to Bob, saying he was going to the store.....That was even luckier.

Coincidences come and go, I suppose, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I still can't work out how that timeline led to someone telling Placentia PD Bob disappeared at 11am though. But somebody sure did;
http://www.placentia.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/102

You know what just kills me about that statement? The not remembering phone numbers.

Specifically? Phone numbers? Pondering.

 

[Oriah]

I remember that the family's position was that the family meeting and the disappearance (now homicide) of Bob was a coincidence. And RB's letter being dated 10 days to the day prior to the disappearance (now homicide) was a coincidence.

I dont see CL leaving the bed unmade....I think her role was to clean and tidy and I cant see leaving the bed unmade and doing the rest of her chores. I can see her leaving personal papers where they were however.

I am puzzled by something-I wonder why whoever killed Bob didnt take the note on yellow paper that showed Bob's to do list in terms of Fontelle? Thank God it was left behind actually. It is in his handwriting and it backs up her position.

The other issue that has been swimming around in my brain was PB's position on Disappeared that her father didnt share his personal business with anyone.

Isnt this coming from the woman who searched for Fontelle and did his books and helped him with his taxes or whatever?

This is another pondering of the day to me.
That leads me to think there were possibly several kinds of 'cleaning up' that happened during those 14+ hours.
By several different people, with several different intentions of what needed to be cleaned up, and possibly in several different time frames?

 

[believe09]

You know what just kills me about that statement? The not remembering phone numbers.

Specifically? Phone numbers? Pondering.

'Cause then he couldnt call home or call Fontelle or call 911. Wink Wink.

Sorry-sarcasm warning above.

I am trying to read into your post a little, Oriah. If we expand the timeline outward to the previous day/evening, there should be a clear picture of when everyone was last seen, what they were doing and with whom...am I on the right track?

 

[Oriah]

'Cause then he couldnt call home or call Fontelle or call 911. Wink Wink.

Sorry-sarcasm warning above.

I am trying to read into your post a little, Oriah. If we expand the timeline outward to the previous day/evening, there should be a clear picture of when everyone was last seen, what they were doing and with whom...am I on the right track?

Well, yeah that's kinda exactly what I was thinking, lol.
I'm having a really tough time with the timeline.
Here's the thing- everyone at the family meeting last saw Mr. Harrod, correct? They all either arrived at his residence independantly, or in company with someone else. None of those people were the CL. None of those people were FH.
Those accounts of a LSA make some sense to me; i.e. 'probably wearing this', or 'possibly wearing this'- or 'last I saw him he had this on', I've experienced that before, for sure.

But a consensus of what is essentially, 'no idea...no clue?' From multiple witnesses all at the same time? Multiple witnesses who were the last to see one specific person? In a private setting? Without a disaster occuring? That's what I can't figure.

And then thinking this person doesn't remember phone numbers so well?

I'm truly not trying to be judgemental or whatever- but that doesn't quite match up. I mean, if you want to talk about other peoples' memories or lack thereof, you best know your own. You know?

 

[believe09]

OK, now I get it. There has been no discussion of Mr Harrod's attire outside of the good humor man outfit described initially...and which was eventually changed. Instead there is collective amnesia.

I guess they played that hand badly-they should have been beating down the door of PPD with details from the previous day including clothing.

So did they arrive en masse, leave en masse, scatter without speaking to him again or to each other?

If I had attended a testy family meeting that blew up into a confrontation over money...money that I found out was in fact all my Dad's (essentially) and that my son/nephew was effectively disinherited...would I have let that be the last word? Would I have gone on my way to my home, tucked myself into bed and not given Dad or the money another thought?

This family would have called their Dad incessantly. I really believe that. They would have stewed and argued and written letter to his attorney and called APS...

I digress. Yes, there should be statements showing specifics rather than collective amnesia.

But there is still time to clear that stuff up. Voluntarily. It would be a really good plan to do that I would think.

 

[Oriah]

OK, now I get it. There has been no discussion of Mr Harrod's attire outside of the good humor man outfit described initially...and which was eventually changed. Instead there is collective amnesia.

I guess they played that hand badly-they should have been beating down the door of PPD with details from the previous day including clothing.

So did they arrive en masse, leave en masse, scatter without speaking to him again or to each other?

If I had attended a testy family meeting that blew up into a confrontation over money...money that I found out was in fact all my Dad's (essentially) and that my son/nephew was effectively disinherited...would I have let that be the last word? Would I have gone on my way to my home, tucked myself into bed and not given Dad or the money another thought?

This family would have called their Dad incessantly. I really believe that. They would have stewed and argued and written letter to his attorney and called APS...

I digress. Yes, there should be statements showing specifics rather than collective amnesia.

But there is still time to clear that stuff up. Voluntarily. It would be a really good plan to do that I would think.

BBM: Yes, that is possibly my biggest concern. Because it's so...unlikely?

But you know what else I am deeply concerned about? The descrepancy of time between when FH did/did not make or receive a call from Mr. Harrod that night, when each family member dispersed from that meeting and with what possible phone calls to one another- and perhaps most importantly, that gap of time in the middle of the night until the next morning.
What exactly was going on then?

 

[sreshowtime]

was the 10:00 am ish phone call Monday, that LE hasn't released details on...where supposedly Mr H was spoken to....was that presumed conversation on the home phone OR that cell phone he had...just curious if LE ever elaborated on THAT ... KWIM?
like you know, you can take a cell with ya

because, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't someone say something to the effect he didn't really use it....(hmm, but maybe he did??) Why was that pointed out?

I wonder how did he call Fontelle if he didn't have long distance service on the home phone? ( if memory serves, if you do not have long distance service, you can not call out, but long distance can call in??) Did he ever call her, or was she the one calling in?

sorry I am rambling, off on some tangent only my head understands probably