CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Grainne Dhu]

add on...no forensic in J vehicle........They went over that with a fine tooth comb and found nothing to indicate a body was inside being transported, no skin cells no hair frolics indicating death. .... Bob left in someones vehicle?

SBM

Even if skin cells, hair or DNA had been found in JeM's vehicle, that wouldn't prove anything since Bob was a family member and it would be plausible to an outsider that he may have ridden in that vehicle previously.

The model of pickup that JeM owned at the time has a trunk-like space under the bed, designed to be used as a cooler with a removable drain plug. There are several videos on Youtube showing people of various sizes goofing around by getting into that space. It is large enough for someone of Bob's size to be placed in.

If Bob had been killed inside the house, wrapped up in several layers of plastic sheeting and then placed in that trunk space, well, it would not have left much trace evidence. The owner of such a truck could easily just spray hundreds of gallons of water into that space to thoroughly clean it. The truck was not taken in for processing for at least several days (might be weeks).

Don't forget that JeM's son AH lived literally around the corner from Bob's house. No one has heard boo about his alibi and/or an alibi for any vehicles he may own.

A little transparency from the family would clear things up completely. Unless, of course, that's exactly why they are being so opaque.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Something else she said. That J stayed upstairs for a minute or two, which made me think he was hiding things or straighten things etc so she would not notice...If that is the case, why would she stay there for 3 hours and clean when she has concern something bad has happened and the person whom let her in the backdoor may had something to do with it.......I would have left, and not stayed there with him if i felt something bad happened.

SBM

That's easy to answer: she stayed because she was doing her job, because she felt the social pressure to carry out her side of their longstanding agreement. I would have done the same thing in her place.

I don't think she thought JeM had anything to do with Bob not being there to let her in, at least I wouldn't have. If I had been her, I would have been thinking "oh dear, I hope my 81 year old employer hasn't had a heart attack up there... I don't really want to see that and here's someone that I can send up to check on it."

Women in the US (and probably other cultures) do things against our own instincts all the time because we've been socialised not to make a fuss. Gavin de Becker in his book The Gift of Fear gives some really good examples of how predators will use this common tendency in order to get control of their prey.

For instance, a woman is in an empty hallway, waiting for the elevator. Just before it arrives, a strange man joins her. The elevator arrives and it is empty. Many women have been attacked in such a situation and have said that they had a gut feeling that they shouldn't get into the elevator with the strange man but they didn't want to offend him or hurt his feelings by walking away. When it was too late, they realised that they should have obeyed that gut reaction.

For a less dire example, I'm a dog trainer and dog training instructor. I've had uncountable numbers of students tell me their dog did something in public and they let the dog get away with it because they felt they would be seen as rude if they had responded in a dog trainerly way. I've heard this so often that I tell my students early and frequently "you have to decide in advance whether you are going to be a socially acceptable person or a dog trainer because there are times when you can't be both."

Me, I always choose to be a dog trainer but I'm only about 5 minutes younger than dirt and no longer care if people think I'm rude or weird or whatever. I'd rather have a well trained dog than be perceived as a well trained person.

Just the fact that I had to think over the issue and decide how to resolve it is evidence of how strong and pernicious that socialisation is.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

SBM

This is just my opinion, but I think the housekeeper is blonde, slim and quite beautiful. I did ask Mr Z what he thought, but he sensed a minefield (incorrectly) and would only say she's not as beautiful as you, darling.

To be accurate, it is not clear to me whether the person in the Disappeared segment was actually the cleaning lady or whether they used an actress. Was it mentioned in the credits?

As for her losing her job and wages because of the new Mrs Harrod - Fontelle had been living with Bob for ( I think) two months or so, and the housekeeper was still employed. Mrs Harrod has visual problems too, and Bob had quite a lot of things in house to keep clean and tidy. I would have thought Mrs Harrod had plenty of time to persuade Bob to end the housekeeper's employment if she had wanted him to.

Besides, the CL came to the house and CLEANED it. What woman wouldn't see that as a great deal and more than worth it?

My home health aide always apologises profusely when she has to change our regular weekly appointment but as I always tell her "what on earth are you apologising for? You are coming to my home and cleaning it! I'm grateful no matter what time you can fit us in!!!"

Fontelle doesn't strike me as being silly enough to want to do her own vacuuming and mopping if she can have someone else do it. Or perhaps this just reflects my own bias as being a reluctant (at best) housekeeper.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Investigation Discovery doesn’t have the Long Lost Love video posted on their site yet, but you can buy it from Amazon Instant Videos for $1.99 and watch it online at the link below.

Starting at 21:45, you can watch Agnes (the housekeeper) speaking and re-enacting what happened the day Bob went missing. It’s Agnes herself (not an actress) and it’s Bob’s actual house where they filmed.

I think you can get a good sense of her when you watch this.

Amazon.com: Disappeared: Season 6, Episode 13 "Long Lost Love": Amazon Instant Video

AHA! Thank you, Cloudajo.

I agree with Zwiebel, she's rather lovely. And that the evidence from the daughters indicates that she was not romantically interested in Bob (I would assume she has no lack of candidates for a romantic relationship).

 

[sreshowtime]

Well whomever the 10:00 a.m.-ish phone call with Mr H was with ( and maybe what phone was used?) and whatever the topic of conversation was, Must be pretty darn important to the investigation. 'Cuz whoever it was with, sure hasn't spilled the beans saying they were the person.
It really seems like that is the last verifiable time Mr.H was spoken to...discounting calls 'family' claim to have made....right?

And yes, you would think if all these people were at this IMPORTANT family meeting, collective heads could have come up with some coherent attempt at clothing.

And what is up with supposedly changing sheets on a bed, that maybe the housekeeper had already made up once she saw it unmade? Well shoot fire, don't know where Dad is but these sheets are so darn important...gah really?

 

[Cubby]

Agnes played herself in the Disappeared episode.

Something that doesn't fit for me with regards to someone outside the 5-family members in CA being responsible, is that JeM and AH have NEVER spoken to the media. Not ever. Why remain silent for a suspect outside the immediate 5 family members? Why would the 5 of them clamor together to protect someone outside of their circle?

 

[Cubby]

Does anyone know if those visa giftcards can be used to purchase the Disappeared episode online?

I've never tried to use one of those type of cards to purchase something online and it would be nice to know if that works for those who do not wish to use their personal credit card online.

tia

 

[deca]

Does anyone know if AHs house was usually empty of the wife and kids during the day?
Did Bob ever go over there?

I wonder if he went over (maybe with JeM) to talk to AH about money and whatever went down went down there?
It wouldn't explain why JeM took so long upstairs "checking on Bob" for the CL, but would explain some other things.

 

[MaryNo]

Welcome to Bob's case!

You're not adding any discomfort here, thinking outside the box. Those of us that have been looking at this for the last 4 years can always use reminders about what happened that day. Addressing your posts helps cement, or discount what may have become stagnant thinking. Speaking for myself, of course. I want to add that until Bob is found, or someone comes forward, all are suspect. It's just that certain folks have made themselves more likeable as the culprit/s than others.

I looked at Agnes/cleaning lady closely, as well. I even tried to put her together with Jeff as a partner in crime. I can't get it to work in my head.

Through the media we learned from both Jeff and Agnes, that Jeff didn't know she was cleaning that day. However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob. With that being said, it would be difficult for her to pull this off not knowing what Jeff's schedule would be for the day. Jeff was, reportedly, in and out of the house with his different trips. He has a receipt, or two, to prove part of his day.

How would Agnes know that Jeff wouldn't come in, and catch her in the act?

Another telling sign that she's most likely not the culprit, is that she's the only one to this point who hasn't been thrown under the bus. Everyone from serial killers to Colonel Mustard with the candlestick has been accused by certain family members.

Just want to say, that every time we rehash this case, we are bringing it to the public eye. I don't find any discomfort in that, and hope that you will continue throwing out your ideas for all of us to ponder.

:rose:

Well it seems the consensuses is that the 3 or 1 sister/sisters and j were involved.
So Ill leave it alone. But when the day comes, and they say that is what happened I admit Ill be amazed they were able to pull this off for all this time with so much heat and investigations going on.

My only intention commenting here was to offer something outside the box since its been 4 years. But i meant no one any discomfort. Bob WILL have his justice one day, and those responsible will be brought to trial and prosecuted.
You can walk on ice for only awhile, eventually you will fall.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Does anyone know if AHs house was usually empty of the wife and kids during the day?
Did Bob ever go over there?

I wonder if he went over (maybe with JeM) to talk to AH about money and whatever went down went down there?
It wouldn't explain why JeM took so long upstairs "checking on Bob" for the CL, but would explain some other things.

Wow. I had not considered that but it is possible.

It was summer, so the kids were probably not in school but there are all sorts of things to take kids and a parent out of the house during the day.

If it happened that way, maybe JeM was checking around upstairs to make sure there weren't any incriminating notes in Bob's handwriting. If he were the perp, then I think he'd be in a paranoid state of mind and wanting to be sure there was nothing that would point directly at him even if the likelihood of that was low.

 

[Mahouston69]

How was it verified Bob was spoken to by phone personally at 10:00 am or was it maybe a call and they left a voicemail and they reported who called, what they said to "Bob" and then deleted the voicemail? Making it appear he took the call and shared the conversation? If so, that leads me to believe it probably was a business, not a friend or family member.

 

[zwiebel]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope, but I think it was a comment under his article by a reporter, that revealed the 10am call - and he said the info came from LE. That thread of comments was later deleted though. I'm not sure at whose instigation.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I guess my last post was not acceptable?

I am not asking why a post was removed because i know that is a violation of toss.
But I am asking to make sure I am not going nuts!
I know i read something earlier and now its not there.

Within the last hour or so?

 

[zwiebel]

Does anyone know if those visa giftcards can be used to purchase the Disappeared episode online?

I've never tried to use one of those type of cards to purchase something online and it would be nice to know if that works for those who do not wish to use their personal credit card online.

tia

I think so Cubby. I was sent gift cards from the US and used them to purchase books on Amazon.

 

[zwiebel]

Veering off a little Mr TT - I'm guessing you have an interest in cold cases from your sig. I'd love to know if you think Bob's case was a cold case before OC Cold Case Unit's interest.

I was always torn because although we heard very little from Placentia PD, I did get the impression they had not archived Bob's case, and there was at least one person in the department still taking an active interest. I'd be interested to know if you have been able to form an opinion.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Do you think new information might have led to the Cold Case unit becoming involved, or just that Placentia PD had come to the end of the line, just about?

More like a standstill, without resources or a solid tip to continue it was time to put the detectives on to newer fresher cases...So they gave it to the cold case unit, which i don't know about at there, but involves detectives, past or present that have the time to do nothing more than work on cold cases, and not involved with current issues.

But turning it over to a ccu is not a bad thing. And least it keeps some eyes upon the case, how often depends on how many ccs they have to work on at one time. One case or many I don't know..........In ones description they have a name and number for a detective to call if you have a tip, so that is a good thing that someone is available by phone to take your inhformation.

 

[zwiebel]

I was wondering if there was a new tip or info line. Could you link it, please? I couldn't find it.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I was wondering if there was a new tip or info line. Could you link it, please? I couldn't find it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176

Its under MaryNo icon here in this thread.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I've got that one. I thought there might be a new one for OC Cold Case Unit, but I can't even find them on google.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Welcome to Bob's case!

You're not adding any discomfort here, thinking outside the box. Those of us that have been looking at this for the last 4 years can always use reminders about what happened that day. Addressing your posts helps cement, or discount what may have become stagnant thinking. Speaking for myself, of course. I want to add that until Bob is found, or someone comes forward, all are suspect. It's just that certain folks have made themselves more likeable as the culprit/s than others.

I looked at Agnes/cleaning lady closely, as well. I even tried to put her together with Jeff as a partner in crime. I can't get it to work in my head.

Through the media we learned from both Jeff and Agnes, that Jeff didn't know she was cleaning that day. However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob. With that being said, it would be difficult for her to pull this off not knowing what Jeff's schedule would be for the day. Jeff was, reportedly, in and out of the house with his different trips. He has a receipt, or two, to prove part of his day.

How would Agnes know that Jeff wouldn't come in, and catch her in the act?

Another telling sign that she's most likely not the culprit, is that she's the only one to this point who hasn't been thrown under the bus. Everyone from serial killers to Colonel Mustard with the candlestick has been accused by certain family members.

Just want to say, that every time we rehash this case, we are bringing it to the public eye. I don't find any discomfort in that, and hope that you will continue throwing out your ideas for all of us to ponder.

:rose:

Thank you for your kind post.

quote...How would Agnes know that Jeff wouldn't come in, and catch her in the act? ...end of quote.

Catch her in the act of doing what?
Can you tell me, was she dropped off that day? Or does anyone know?
SUV perhaps?......OTHER than what the cl said about how she got there.

quote...
However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob...end of quote.
Sorry, dont believe it. Bob is not here to confirm that. SO someone whom bob told told the cl that jeff was coming.....I am not even sure what that means........Jeff is coming. NOPE, SORRY dont believe it..........J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there. But doesn't matter.

When J showed up, DId she say to him something like, OH, you must be J Bob told me you would be coming by. Did she say that............I bet 10 dollars she didnot. And I beet she had a cell phone with her that day, did she call anyone and say i am at bobs house and hes not here and there is no key in the mailbox, or did she just set there and wait as she said she did?