CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

They are probably right under my nose and I'm just missing something obvious - like Mr Z just missed seeing the solid marble hearth that's been there forever. I don't think he's broken his bad leg again.....
ETA; OC Cold Case Unit.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Thank you for your kind post.

quote...How would Agnes know that Jeff wouldn't come in, and catch her in the act? ...end of quote.

Catch her in the act of doing what?
Can you tell me, was she dropped off that day? Or does anyone know?
SUV perhaps?......OTHER than what the cl said about how she got there.

quote...
However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob...end of quote.
Sorry, dont believe it. Bob is not here to confirm that. SO someone whom bob told told the cl that jeff was coming.....I am not even sure what that means........Jeff is coming. NOPE, SORRY dont believe it..........J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there. But doesn't matter.

When J showed up, DId she say to him something like, OH, you must be J Bob told me you would be coming by. Did she say that............I bet 10 dollars she didnot. And I beet she had a cell phone with her that day, did she call anyone and say i am at bobs house and hes not here and there is no key in the mailbox, or did she just set there and wait as she said she did?

I've never seen a single media quote of Jeff saying anything about Bob's disappearance. Not a thing. I think he and the housekeeper did know each other. But if there is something that indicates otherwise, I'd be very interested....

 

[zwiebel]

Jeff didn't ask, "Who are you?" when he met the housekeeper on the doorstep. She says he asked, "Are you supposed to be here?"

Repeatedly.

If Jeff believes the conversation went differently, he could always come forward and say so.

 

[believe09]

To Oriah's points-we have been chewing on the possibility of whether or not a conspiracy like this one could hold. We have been trying to tease out evidence of one in order to make that decision.

What we have, it appears, is a group of people with collective amnesia and silence where there shouldnt be any. One example of that is the question-When did you last see Bob? Another-what was Bob wearing when he was last seen?

There is absolutely no good reason not to have that information out there and honestly answered.

IF you are focusing intently on the need to alibi one another, it seems probable that you would miss this. There shouldnt be an absence of information about these two things. But there is.

This family meeting was about money and who was going to get some and when. This family has proven in the last 4 years that they have no reticence when it comes to airing stuff on the www. A few of them could be considered extraordinarily impulsive when it comes to sharing in fact. Everyone has been quick to come up with partial anecdotes for 7/27. What about 7/26?

I snipped and bumped my own post, lol. Do you all have any thoughts about this? Is the collective amnesia and the lack of information and possible repetition of last seen information sufficient to confirm some kind of a conspiracy?

Because I am trying to chip away at my own theory that things evolved in a spontaneous way. I am taking to heart the possibility that JeM AND AH were in the house that morning, possibly discussing the money and who gets what. I am rethinking what the circle the wagons mentality we have seen might be about-I thought it was about an after the fact reaction, but what if it isnt? If you were sitting on a Grand Jury, would that be something that caused you to wonder about whether or not everyone had dirty hands, not just the person who took Bob's life...whoever that is.

 

[Salem]

I guess my last post was not acceptable?

I am not asking why a post was removed because i know that is a violation of toss.
But I am asking to make sure I am not going nuts!
I know i read something earlier and now its not there.

Within the last hour or so?

Hey MrTT - yes, your post was removed. Can you just link the video of the detectives, without linking the other site? That would be a good way to solve this problem, if it is possible.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[zwiebel]

Just my opinion - the level of evasiveness present in this case cannot be either a coincidence or accidental. If that only leaves conspiracy, then it is what it is, I guess.

 

[believe09]

How was it verified Bob was spoken to by phone personally at 10:00 am or was it maybe a call and they left a voicemail and they reported who called, what they said to "Bob" and then deleted the voicemail? Making it appear he took the call and shared the conversation? If so, that leads me to believe it probably was a business, not a friend or family member.

We dont know this at this time, Mahouston. All we know is LE states pretty solidly that there was a phone call around 10AM that seems to prove his presence in the house.

 

[believe09]

We have a huge number of guests and I thank you so much for your interest-if you are comfortable, sign on and give us your thoughts and feelings about this case. If not, please consider visiting the facebook pages and websites dedicated to finding this very special man.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

">

Hey MrTT - yes, your post was removed. Can you just link the video of the detectives, without linking the other site? That would be a good way to solve this problem, if it is possible.

Thanks,

Salem

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9149111

According to this report at the end. No suspects?...Mentions no resources or tips to continue, thats why they turned it over to an outside cold case unit about half way through or so.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

">http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9149111

According to this report at the end. No suspects?...Mentions no resources or tips to continue, thats why they turned it over to an outside cold case unit about half way through or so.

After watching this made me wonder if he was plastered in the walls inside the home...Not really thought of that, just thinking we are missing something simply

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Thank you for your kind post.

quote...How would Agnes know that Jeff wouldn't come in, and catch her in the act? ...end of quote.

Catch her in the act of doing what?
Can you tell me, was she dropped off that day? Or does anyone know?
SUV perhaps?......OTHER than what the cl said about how she got there.

quote...
However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob...end of quote.
Sorry, dont believe it. Bob is not here to confirm that. SO someone whom bob told told the cl that jeff was coming.....I am not even sure what that means........Jeff is coming. NOPE, SORRY dont believe it..........J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there. But doesn't matter.

When J showed up, DId she say to him something like, OH, you must be J Bob told me you would be coming by. Did she say that............I bet 10 dollars she didnot. And I beet she had a cell phone with her that day, did she call anyone and say i am at bobs house and hes not here and there is no key in the mailbox, or did she just set there and wait as she said she did?

It might be important to the case or it might be important but it certainly sheds light on the family relationships: Bob paid off his three daughters to leave him alone for 6 months after the death of their mother. A substantial sum of money ($15K each).

It is something I cannot quite wrap my head around because I come from a very tight family myself. My father is within a week of Bob's age and he's never so much as suggested to me that he wants anything but more of my company, not less and certainly not paying me to stay away.

Given the level of estrangement that seems to me to indicate, I don't think it is too farfetched to think that JeM and the CL had never met in person. She was there for 3 hours a week (due to Bob's meticulous accounting, we know that for sure) and Bob did not have a sense of loving support from his daughters. Since she was usually there during normal business hours, JeM would have been working at that time during much of the ten years she'd been working for Bob.

Ugh, now I can't stop thinking about Bob feeling the need to pay his daughters to leave him alone for a substantial period of time. No wonder Bob was lonely before Fontelle got into contact with him again.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Oh, I've got that one. I thought there might be a new one for OC Cold Case Unit, but I can't even find them on google.

I believe this is the Cold Case Unit:

http://ocsd.org/divisions/fieldops/investigations/cib/clue

 

[Grainne Dhu]

After watching this made me wonder if he was plastered in the walls inside the home...Not really thought of that, just thinking we are missing something simply

Good thought! That house was built in the 1970s, so the walls are almost certainly sheetrock rather than plaster. In a dry climate like Placentia, sheetrock gets dried out and brittle pretty quickly. It's easy to knock a hole into a wall.

And no matter how skilfully it is patched, it almost always shows up. Particularly if the entire wall is not repainted afterwards and the patch is just painted with some leftover paint from the original paint job. The paint that is on the walls oxidises with time, gets dust and oils stuck to it and suffers light damage, so that it is no longer precisely the original colour.

Since Fontelle had been in the house 3 weeks before, she would know if there was a new patch in the bathroom... finding one would lead her to believe that Bob was killed there. I know that's what I would think.

 

[MaryNo]

With Jeff coming and going in and out of the house that day, Agnes would have no idea what would be a good time to arrange for Bob to disappear, or do something nasty to Bob, and frame Jeff for whatever she did. So, it would be very risky for someone who is rarely at Bob's house to "disappear" Bob without being caught in the act. She wouldn't be aware of the daily rhythm.

Her mode of transportation was not released by police, or in statements made by Agnes to media. The reference to the SUV was made by Jeff, which just so happened to coincide with the description of the SUV driven by the barber, Josie. Josie has an alibi for the timeline of possibilities for Bob to go missing - according to the police. I could be mistaken, but the family might still be throwing Josie under the bus as the culprit.

"Jeff is coming" is a phrase taken from Agnes' story of her changing her day to come and clean. I've always seen it being akin to telling her that she would be cleaning with someone possibly getting in her way. I believe it's important to tell the house cleaner that there will be someone else in the house he/she is trying to clean. Jeff was there to do repairs. There was bound to be elbows bumping.

Agnes was not a daily house cleaner. There was a large chunk of time when Bob wouldn't see his daughters, and their families due to in-fighting; approximately 6 months. It doesn't strike me as odd that Jeff wouldn't know Agnes.

Jeff claims Bob didn't tell him she was coming. If he didn't know who she was, or believe her when she told him who she was, why would he let her in the house? If he didn't know her, it's another strange event for that day. He left her there alone to go to the hardware store. If I didn't know someone, or know OF them, I wouldn't leave them alone in my house, or a loved one's house.

Agnes probably had her cell with her. The house was empty. She knew no one was inside the house. Bob didn't carry a cell. They used the house phone. She more than likely wouldn't have called the empty house.

If she was behind his disappearance, or did it herself, what was her motive? At the most, she was a weekly cleaner. I don't believe she was there on a regular weekly basis. I believe we learned that back 4 years ago when going through the routine business of eliminating people. Hopefully, one of the other posters can help me remember where I got that info. Anyway, for the sake of our chat, let's say she was a one/week cleaner. What would she gain? I'm not sure there's anything much for her to gain from killing Bob. Would she expect to replace Georgia as the woman of the house? Is that a reasonable expectation for a woman that only sees Bob once/week?

There haven't been any indications, to this point, that Bob and Agnes had a romantic relationship. There haven't been any indications that Bob was a player. (My reference to the daughter's implications of Bob and Josie's relationship) Different statements seem to point to his depression, grieving, weight loss (Poor eating habits - TV dinners, etc.) due to the passing of Georgia.

The main reason I don't like her as a suspect, she was still there when Jeff returned from the Home Depot. If she was clever enough to "disappear Bob, she was clever enough to be gone when he returned. :rose:




Catch her in the act of doing what?
Can you tell me, was she dropped off that day? Or does anyone know?
SUV perhaps?......OTHER than what the cl said about how she got there.

quote...[/COLOR][/COLOR]
However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob...end of quote.
Sorry, dont believe it. Bob is not here to confirm that. SO someone whom bob told told the cl that jeff was coming.....I am not even sure what that means........Jeff is coming. NOPE, SORRY dont believe it..........J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there. But doesn't matter.

When J showed up, DId she say to him something like, OH, you must be J Bob told me you would be coming by. Did she say that............I bet 10 dollars she didnot. And I beet she had a cell phone with her that day, did she call anyone and say i am at bobs house and hes not here and there is no key in the mailbox, or did she just set there and wait as she said she did?
[/QUOTE]

 

[MaryNo]

I mentioned a couple of months ago, that we possibly have a "Murder On The Orient Express" case. If you haven't read it, it's where they ALL kill the victim, therefore, no one knew who actually killed the victim. Not meaning this literally in terms of being exactly that, but it's extremely probable that this wasn't a "one man show". I feel strongly it wasn't.

I have a theory that someone believes Bob was dead when he left the house, or temporary hiding place. I don't believe Bob was dead when he left the house/hiding place.

I snipped and bumped my own post, lol. Do you all have any thoughts about this? Is the collective amnesia and the lack of information and possible repetition of last seen information sufficient to confirm some kind of a conspiracy?

Because I am trying to chip away at my own theory that things evolved in a spontaneous way. I am taking to heart the possibility that JeM AND AH were in the house that morning, possibly discussing the money and who gets what. I am rethinking what the circle the wagons mentality we have seen might be about-I thought it was about an after the fact reaction, but what if it isnt? If you were sitting on a Grand Jury, would that be something that caused you to wonder about whether or not everyone had dirty hands, not just the person who took Bob's life...whoever that is.

 

[MaryNo]

It could be sparkling apple juice or cider.

:rose:

Don't forget the one about Bob never ever drinking, even on social occasions. Yet in the pic at this link, I could swear that's a champagne glass in his hand:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013...ssing-placentia-mans-wife-suspects-foul-play/

 

[MaryNo]

I believe there was speculation on the gated community in the Placentia area as being a possible holding place to get Bob out of the way.

It's a good idea, really, BUT, someone has to pay for it. After 4 years, there would be a sizeable reduction in the value of his estate. The girls would definitely know where to find him if he was hiding, and the court would know where he is, as the trust is being overseen by conservators, lawyers, and judges. With the lack of expenditures by the family in finding Bob, I doubt they'd "waste" their inheritance on financing his hiding place, or a nursing home. They definitely want the entire estate.

I'm incredibly sorry to hear about your own family situation. :rose:

I just had a thought; something the mod posted juggled my brain: What IF; A family MEMBER took him; and had him put in a nursing home declared him w dementia; and is hiding him and his money? Does anyone think this is an option and has ANYONE checked with the nursing homes in the area? If anyone has time I'd get on that and call each and every one of them; and send each and every one of them a flyer. To BOLO for him. I just think his family, Son In Law, etc are involved. They didnt want to lose their inheritence. We are in a similar situ here and I know how ugly these things can get. My little sister took all of my mother's will; belongings, money etc....got her newport beach address though. There is nothing left. There will be nothing left. It's so sad.

On the other side; inheritance went well until the 8th born child of the third marriage stole items in the will of our father, on top of our grief. People do such hurtful stupid things without thinking. It's my clear thought that his family didn't want him to spend any of his "fortune" on some woman. They wanted it. And that's where I stand due to the timeline; what was said; and he has not been "found dead" or found alive. I'd be checking all hospitals and nursing homes.

Three more years they can hv him declared legally dead and obtain his money; correct?

 

[cloudajo]

Does anyone know if those visa giftcards can be used to purchase the Disappeared episode online?

I've never tried to use one of those type of cards to purchase something online and it would be nice to know if that works for those who do not wish to use their personal credit card online.

tia

According to Amazon you can (help page).

Types of Credit and Debit Cards That Can Be Used

Visa, MasterCard, or American Express pre-paid credit or gift cards

 

[Grainne Dhu]

It could be sparkling apple juice or cider.

:rose:

Monitors don't always render true colour so the following may mean nothing but that my monitor is off a little.

I cannot drink alcohol because I have the Korean drinking gene that makes me turn bright red and then projectile vomit if I drink alcohol (you can imagine how humiliated my teenage self was when I discovered that!). As a result, I've drunk a lot of sparkling cider over the years. To my eye, it is usually a deeper gold-yellow colour than the liquid in the glasses that Bob and Fontelle were holding. What Bob and Fontelle were holding looks to be a pale straw colour, the colour of champagne.

I don't see anything wrong with Bob and Fontelle having a convivial glass to celebrate their wedding. I think it's rather sweet.

It does seem to suggest that "Dad never drinks alcohol, even on social occasions" is in the same category as "Dad never drives the freeway."

 

[cloudajo]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope, but I think it was a comment under his article by a reporter, that revealed the 10am call - and he said the info came from LE. That thread of comments was later deleted though. I'm not sure at whose instigation.

Correct. Here is the info for reference.

The reporter who wrote the October 2009 article in the OC Register (at link below) posted this comment about a 10AM phone call to Bob under the article. This comment and all comments have since been deleted.

Officials have said that at 10 a.m. July 27 there was a phone call to Bob Harrod, which is the last time anyone other than Jeff Michaels verified he was at the house. Police are not releasing the content of those phone records.

The reporter also emailed me this (no link):

The last phonecall was recorded at around 10 a.m. So that is the last time anyone can confirm Harrod was in the house other than Jeff Michaels.

http://www2.ocregister.com/articles...RecommendedOnly=1&oncommentsPage=2#slComments